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Kamen Rider Saber Episode 17- "Whether The Ancient Message Is Light Or Shadow!"
Touma is now a fugitive from the Sword of Logos, as the Megid unleash a powerful new type of creature.
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This is the start of the second quarter, folks! MOTW, Q2 rider, juice conflicts, main rider possibly losing a good amount of fights, we're back in business!
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Man... this show.
The story have a lot of flaw, but its addictive. Been a while since i watch rider's show weekly, and its unpleasant when there's no new episode last week. And for the first time I'm not angry when there's too much rider and form. They are wonderful, the RKF's is beautiful. I want em all! |
Last episode really turned this season around for me so I'm excited to see if the follow-up lives up to that!
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As for Juice Conflicts, I know you meant juicy but like... I'm imagining everyone just fighting Touma because he preferred Prune Juice or something. As for that last part... I'mma bet we will see Touma lose a bit, but not to the degree that Aruto ended up losing a lot in regards to Thouser. Yuri for all intents and purposes, is an ally, and given Scan related things, I think they'll be playing things a bit more positively with Saiko and we'll be seeing that in the next few episodes. |
"Juice Conflicts" is an entirely accurate description of Gaim's second quarter, to be fair. :p
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I did not expect them to do that shadowy effect with Saikou.... Shadow, but I dig it, really sells the whole "Saikou is the sword" aspect. I thought it would've just been the suit like the preview images showed. That's real cool. I wonder if they'll keep it up whenever it makes an appearance or if it'll just be that one fight and Saikou Shadow will become "solid" later on.
As for the "losing" part, I feel like it'll mostly be because Touma's willingly hold back when fighting against the human-turned-Megids 'cuz well, they're humans still and were unwillingly transformed unlike Kamijo, and SOL 'cuz he still trusts them to some degree. Like I doubt that he actually wants to fight either to his full power like that. It won't be like Aruto vs. Gai in that regard, where in a lot of situations Aruto really should've just wiped the floor with Gai and he had no obligation to hold back for him. And it's not like Touma's had any experience in fighting and saving humans that got turned into monsters, this is new territory for him, so he's gonna have to figure out how to do it on the fly. |
Not much occurred on this episode, aside from the ones that I already expected from before. Although, Saber kinda handled the "MC loses against Q2 MOTW till Q2 Rider beats it" better than Zero-One. Touma feared the notion that he could kill the chief and so him tumbling around against the yeti (not to mention it growing in power each revival it seems) kinda makes sense here.
Saikou's shadow suit looked amazing as expected, but some of the CGI parts looked extremely jarring. Someone needs to hire a proper CGI animator for these. Could also see some clever filming techniques were used to hide the suit's shadow, like filming the suit separately so they can edit him in later without the shadow and also filming the suit without showing the floor. What interests me is that the Alter Ridebook turned dark red partially when it ejected off of the chief. I might be jumping too early, but that kinda gives the signal of it being a Saber upgrade? One final thing, though, Ren looks hilarious seething over what happened last episode. Stuff like "He cut my Kento down!" really kinda makes him seem like yandere-ish. |
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So, TV-Nihon got the episode out. Here’s some basics.
Yuri trashes Touma’s bookshop to learn about the modern world, with the only thing he doesn’t like being a dark and edgy manga. We also learn that he can change his clothes instantly. We learn the Megiddo are now commencing with their real plan to recreate the Book by creating new Alter books from those with a connection to Wonder World and collecting the Holy Blades. Calibur was merely a puppet. Yuri’s catchphrase is “Saikou da na”, which the subs render as “Most prodigious”. The SoL members sit this one out, mostly discussing where to go next concerning Touma. |
I liked this one. It really benefited from focusing primarily on Touma and Yuri instead of trying to juggle multiple different plotlines. I'm also impressed that we're not done with the editor's story; I assumed that this was going to be a standard Kamen Rider two-parter. I'm sure that this isn't the end of the show's pacing problems, but it was still a refreshing change.
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Wow, so not even Yuri is solidly on Touma's side? It's a bit surprising that a show which leaned so hard into the friendship and teamwork themes in the first arc is now so ruthlessly stripping the hero of all his allies (except Mei). I kinda like it, the focus on the bond between swordsmen makes it hurt more when that's broken, and how hard it is for Touma alone emphasizes how important his friends were in the first place.
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You can bet by the end of the show they'll all be friends!
I would say one of the major themes of the show is keeping promises, and as such, that aspect will trump everything, including friendships and teamwork. When Touma is proven right and he follows through on his promises, then he will have truly gained the trust and friendship of his colleagues; rather than just being a good fighter or "the chosen one". |
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https://i.imgur.com/9WF8baY.jpg
Nothing absolutely outstanding, but a perfectly satisfying follow-up all the same! First off, they followed up on last episode's falling out just about perfectly! No deep insights from Daishinji or Ogami yet, but it's great to see Ren be the only one actually dedicated to taking Touma down as he digs deeper and deeper into his simplistic mindset; while Rintarou's trying to calm down and see things a bit more rationally after his natural outburst last episode. All the while Reika's giving sullen commands in their aggressively moodily lit Southern Base (really fun outer design by the by), as her lines and acting hint at a bit more complexity to her. It's almost enough to distract from the disappointment that it's a single scene in the entire episode and they don't run into Touma or the Megid at all! Still... I get it. New toy to sell alongside a new character to truly introduce, and it looks like we're getting to all the juicy stuff next episode anyhow. Definitely the biggest disappointment and criticism of the episode for me, but there's enough here to tide me over and we're right back into it next week it seems. Saikou naturally ends up being the star of the show here with quite a few surprises! I totally expected him to be taking up the wise old mentor role; being not just an ancient mysterious entity but literally being the Sword of Light... but no, his character goes in a completely different direction and one that shows a lot of interesting nuances to it right off the bat! Instantly I get a read that he's someone who's got all the information on him, who knows all the rules, but he's pretty much fresh-faced to the world and has little in the way of moral complexity. He's a lot like Ren's simplicity but in a completely different direction and that's such a fun idea! Not to mention, Saikou Shadow... is so so SO much cooler than I thought it'd be! From all the pictures it just looked like a solid black bodysuit, but it uses an awesome combination of live-action suits and CGI to really get across the idea of a non-corporeal shadow. It does mean we have some beyond dodgy CGI at some moments, but for the most part it works out into something truly special and unique. Finally, the megid are doing something a lot more interesting that I always love to see -- the monsters are basically other humans trapped inside! I'm always more than a little bothered when the riders are going around blowing up monsters when they're clearly sentient beings which has been the case with the Megid up till now. It gets into some bothersome territory where they're mercilessly killing with no commentary on that, and it's a big part of what keeps me from liking Drive. So when the monsters are humans going ragemode and there's moral complexities introduced and the Riders have to go the extra mile to try and save them? That's what I'm talking about, baby! Already it's adding a lot more layers to the show; I would have been happy enough with the conflict between Touma and the Sword of Logos, but suddenly Saber is not holding back on deeper conflicts and complexities. Just so suddenly in these past two episodes, Saber has shot ahead and become something I'm really really enjoying. Love it! also I continue to wonder how in god's name the next Saber upgrade is supposed to top something as amazing as Dragonic Knight like wow |
The thing about the Yeti-type Megid made me realize what was so "empty" and admittedly "Sentai-like" in Q1.
The MOTWs didn't have the "human" part of them. They were just monsters to be beaten up by SOL's new toys every week. Traditionally, the kaijins have some form of human element into them, like the Humagears and Raiders being people, the Another Riders being people being manipulated and the Smash being people experimented on. The Q1 Megids were sentient but still faceless monsters to be beaten up. By having this human part in them, quite literally, there is more weight in the actions that the riders take into defeating them. Also, something I'd look forward to and hopefully EP 18 alludes to it, would be solo duel between Rintarou and Touma. The two are basically the only remaining Swordriver riders and it would be a cool way for them settle each other's conflicts with one another. On that note, though, does Touma still have Ikazuchi in possession? |
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And yeah, exactly! A big part of Kamen Rider from the beginning is monsters who became human; it's a core part of the franchise and something that makes the drama so good. So when it's just beating up faceless creatures... it loses that a little. Not that there's no way to do it right or that Rider shouldn't do this - Ryuki and Hibiki for instance, are great positive examples - but I certainly don't feel it was helping here. Excited to see where they go from this point! |
I just hope they don't do what Zero-One did with the Raiders, where it turned out the Riders could just destroy them the normal way and the human inside would be fine. If they're going to make "save the human trapped inside the Megid" a goal, Touma should have to actually work for it, not just worry about it for an episode and then cut down the Megid the same way he has been.
There is one scenario in which I'd be fine with saving the human to just require destroying the Megid. That's if Yuri already knew that was how it worked (which is why he didn't hesitate to cut down the Yeti), and if the reason he already knew was that he'd fought human-turned-Megid before, and if that led to the reveal that all the Megid the swordsmen had fought so far were also transformed from humans who weren't saved in time. That scenario still wouldn't be quite as interesting as having to save each victim, but it would make a good shock to Touma and hammer home the consequences of failing to save someone. |
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I am totally on board for a rider series where the main villain isn't a human.
I thought with Saber being so heavily fantasy based, we were going to see more monsters and fantastical creatures. I was also hoping for some fantasy tropes like dungeon crawling or castle sieging. I still like the show. I don't have a problem with the Megid. It seems there is lots of other things to worry about too. |
Okay, it took me ~forever~ to get around to watching this one (the path of heaven apparently doesn't leave a lot of time for detours!), but hey, I'm finally watching more Saber, and I'm happy.
...I will lead off with two complaints, though, just to get them out of the way. First, Saber really should've transformed into Brave Dragon and then busted out the Wonder Combo only once Legeiel showed up. Saber's been doing better about this than Zero-One already, but I still have to call it out for not having the main Rider's first transformation after the New Years break be the main form. But that's only some arbitrary rule I made up (I just feel like it makes a nice "welcome back" for the show?), and is beyond minor. It also still wins points for having more than just Dragonic Knight twice at all. The second thing, which may be a bigger problem, is that showing Saber do a finishing move on the monster that clearly didn't do any lethal damage makes the core dilemma of the episode from that point on come off a bit odd? I don't see anyone else complaining about this in the thread, so maybe I missed something, but it still seems like there would've been a better way for the script to make Touma aware of the Yeti Megid's true nature. That being said, it's to the episode's credit that, even with that hanging over it, I still absolutely loved just about everything it was doing anyway, a lot of which Kurona covered in her post that kindly filled the void for elaborate Saber posts while I was failing to make time to do mine. I think the overall reason all those things work so well is, once again, because this was very much a slow episode of Saber, and it's just as appreciated as it was last time. There's not a lot getting in the way of the character interactions, which are firmly focused on the very small group of Touma, Mei, and Yuri, and it gives things so much more room to breathe. There's space for all these fantastic little moments, like the tragically ironic callbacks to Touma's previous moments of friendship that underscore how wrong it is for him be all alone in his fight against evil right now, like some sort of Kamen Rider. Yuri gets to flesh himself out massively, and him dissing American comic heroes for being too angsty was just... I mean, I'm not even sure what that moment was trying to say (I think it's a tongue-in-check jab at the Heisei Rider formula the show is now pulling from?), but I loved it. I love this weird sword man, and his quirks that make him stand apart without pushing into being too much of a caricature. Really, just in general, I'm loving Saikou. He's the most hyped I've been about the obligatory New Year, new Belt character since Mach showed up. I think his gear is neat, and the show is having a lot of fun with what a genuinely unique and fresh concept he has going for him. I think a lot of us assumed the show would start relying on the gimmick of "sword that is also ____" to add some variety to the merchandise, but I give them huge props for filling that blank in with "a dude" instead of more guns or something. Saikou is so much fun, guys. And, of course, despite having that one issue with the plot, I'm still massively dialed in to everything Saber is doing. Super glad to have it back, and I can't wait to see how this current plot wraps up. (And hopefully I won't be waiting as long this time!) |
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