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Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 3- "Doctor Gamer 2018!" Discussion
Sougo tries to adjust to life with two time-travelers. One day at school they learn of a mysterious game that nobody can beat, causing Sougo to hunt for the "genius gamer..."
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Looks like the show will use german a lot this year haha.
EDIT : really like 3.5 this time. Oraaaaaaa <3 seems like they make fun of Toei staff somehow Laughed at the "Pause" Chronos sound effect. |
I really liked this episode. It was nice to see Emu and Hiiro again.
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But this series as a whole is supposed to have some lighthearted poking fun at about everything. Though it'll have some rather pointed not so lighthearted mocking at some 'bad fan'/'ignorance' areas too. But everything else is supposed to be in an "all in good fun" type way. |
Well, this was quite an enjoyable episode overall, the best of the first 3 so far, not saying ep 1 and 2 where bad, but they had issues.
So who is guessing the reason he goes evil is Geiz backstabbing him ? |
I think the show is finding its groove. I still don't have the strongest handle on Sougo, but the whole cast is growing on me (I loved the montage of Geiz and Tsukuyomi stalking him). It was great to see Emu and Hiiro, too, although I'm not sure why the show felt the need to avoid showing Emu's face, like it was supposed to be a surprise despite the fact that it was blatantly obvious he was going to be showing up.
I loved Another Ex-Aid. I think I'm going to just be all over the monster designs this year. Bonus points for the Konami Code reference. That's a pretty deep gaming cut at this point. |
This show needs to slow down really bad.
It's going at breakneck speeds through these "plots" and isn't giving a lot of time to care about anything. I still don't care about the main characters. I don't care about the villains. What they have of a story so far makes little to no sense (and I really don't want to have to watch weird exposition bonus episodes to fill in the gaps). So far this show has been a pretty big disappointment. I thought we'd have really cool stories with these legacy characters, but they just zoomed on by leaving them in the dust and me nothing to chew on. I really hope it finds its footing soon, because I really want to like it. The premise is cool and interesting, just the execution is weak. The belt sounds and theme song are sweet as hell though. |
Pretty good episode, a nice slow paced one with a good mystery and a reveal of Emu at the end who this episode has been building up to the group finding. With the backstory and mechanics explained we got to have some good comedy in the form of Tsukuyomi and Geiz as well as a good slow building mystery that'll be finished next week.
Plus a good cliffhanger in that we still don't know what Emu's deal is at least until next week. 3.5 was also pretty hilarious as well, Emu being the Spoiler Police, Hora talking about why their replacing Riders to begin with which is likely to show up in the series eventually. Basically a Rider War dragging Riders across time to decide the King. Which makes sense in regards to Zi-O erasing Build from the timeline and taking his place, can't have a Rider War if your the only Rider who shows up in the timeline. Thus you are automatically declared king. |
You know, the one complaint about this show I have is that the lead, Tokiwa Sougo (Okuno So), lacks presence. He lacks Sento's charming deviousness, Emu's raw idealism, Shinnosuke's cool factor or Kouta's sheer determination. Even Takeru was more memorable than him although that was for the wrong reasons.
Why do I bring this up? Because a Rider show is only as strong as its lead and Tokiwa is not strong to begin with. Although it has only been three episodes so far so some leeway can be given. However, everything else in the series is holding up so far and this episode is the best of three yet although some might be turned off by the reduced amount of tokusatsu action. The episode took the time to establish the reason how all of this came to be and gave the rest of the villains their motivation. So overall, not a bad episode. |
I'm really not feeling it. The lead is rather uninteresting, and the plots are just head scratching.
Eh, I'll stick with it, though. |
i be honest
i hate these ,5 episode thing i rather have the information in the actual episodes than this or atleast give us this kinda info in begining before the episode start kinda like preview in build is this gonna be decade 2,0? |
Is it bad that I think Horo is cuter than Tsukiyomi and wish the casting had been swapped?
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The show is not captivating enough. It doesn't know if it want to do tribute and fan service or just really trying to balance its own plot unlike decade. I'm still offended by the logic and the way it handle the veteran /toku alumi storyline. It's not as worst as taisen retcon. Ohma zio and the 19 Heisei riders need more foreshadowing. At least explain how Geiz is in possession of 2 ride watches and tsukiyomi is in possession of the 555 phone. Not to mention time machine is everywhere in the future. Isn't it a time paradox if woz, time jackers, and the two allies is what created ohma zio. Continuity is a mess with shows like these like how would they incorporate 555. They ended his stories in taisen and kr4 specials.
It would be with kaixa. He's a villain, but I guess bts the actor is quite good friends with 555. Usually, newer actors or less famous actors that enjoy the toku experience have no problem doing more toku or reprising their roles even if its just ADR recording. 555 and kaixa recorded their own cover of their themesong too. For 555, I always thought kiba (rip) or the laundry guy was the real BFF to him. It hurts too hard to nitpick,get trigger, and over think the logic and trying to make sense out of it. The cast isn't that appealing. Hope it won't tank like megaforce or decade. Seriously, build wasn't that long ago and they mess it up. |
The episode was fun.
The 3.5 was great. The complimentary episodes are a nice touch. Nothing they say is missing from the episode either. And I like the fourth wall breaks in them. They're more like a comedic behind the scenes thing filling in some aspects on different choices, or 'in case you missed' it elements, while also poking fun at itself. Love the book theme too, and it was fun seeing the game code in German and how that ties into medical history. Overall really liking how this show is developing out and building the characters. Tsukuyomi is really growing on me too. So far she's my fave out of the trio, but Sougo has been kind of interesting in seeing how his growth is going to take him in different directions as the show progresses. Quote:
It's not a paradox if they created Zi-o, that's the pre-destiny loop time travel theory. Where time travel can't create a paradox because the events time traveling changes are what made those events happen. It's the immutable time type loop. All events happened as they were supposed to happen because of the time traveling that set them in motion. Breaking that loop is what sets the difference to diverge the timeline out of the loop. Agents of SHIELD did a whole thing on this, as has Doctor Who. In the AOS instance, they had to go through the loop once to change the loop on the second go around(what we the viewer saw was the second loop). So for the loop to exist to get changed, it has to have happened at least once. Which is similar to what's happening here. The loop has already happened once which is what made Oma Zi-o, so now the loop can be changed creating an alternate diverging timeline. This is the story. If the loop will diverge and how to create the new timeline. But as always, refer back to the 2.5 three rules. Rule 3 is the most important. Don't overthink it. Enjoy the ride. |
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but i agree main character are quite meh i honestly prefer a bit of cockyness or atleast had cool personality/traits for this kind of anniv season |
The supposed "blandness" of Sougo is honestly something that doesn't bother me, because I feel that's suppose to be the point. The juxtaposition of how this seemingly normal and average teenager becomes this demonic overlord in the future. I really hope they don't pull the "Oma Zi-O isn't actually Sougo" twist because I think that would be a cope out and that it would be more interesting seeing Sougo make decisions that lead him closer to being Oma Zi-O.
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He's supposed to be more average ordinary person. It's part of the entire contrast between his future self and his current self. Going from point A(present day) to point Z(where he ends up), and how that happens. So outside of the main character quirk, he's supposed to be like any random 'normal' student. Someone that'd typically not stand out in a crowd. In this way, that's why his supporting cast is needed to be as odd as they are, so they do the iconic standing out more. Same to the villains. The contrast of their outlandishness to his normality is what makes the innate nature of the show work as a metaphor for a cautionary tale. Same reason he has a more normal supportive positive home life. So he's more or less completely normal with minimal negative influences. It's the life journey that takes him from this to what he becomes that makes the show. And the ego/cockiness is still there, but we see it in other ways. Like the entire 'gameover' montage followed by lecture from Geiz. He has some of the typical rider arrogance, but he lacks the experience behind it as a character. Whereas Faiz/Takumi had years as an Oprhenoch that the Faiz suit let him draw on in plain view, or how Den-O had to be possessed by Imagins for his confidence and bravado. We're seeing this rider as a moderately normal person that's jumping in head first in more than he can handle with bravado, but lacks experience to match to it. It's part of his character growth journey. From average normal teenager, to later fully capable Rider as he gains experience and learns along the way. Which is the poignancy of Geiz's speech at the "game over" montage scene too. He's a novice. An amateur. Essentially the most powerful rider yet, or at least his future self is, but this is ground zero, long before he became any of that, and how he became that. Something that was also highlighted by how Geiz changed forms, and then Zi-O realized he should too. He's following Geiz's lead to learn. |
Someone said earlier " I hope Oma Zi-O is not another character than Sougo"...
I don't know why, but I expect it to be someone else. As they say " do not overthink it" I think the answers will come by themselves and that some people won't be pleased by how stupid it will be. I've decided to not use my brain too much with Zi-O and I like it so far. I take it as pure fan service. I was beyond pissed that Build got "retconned" by Zi-O, but I'm telling myself that everything will be back to normal at the endgame... |
Hey everyone, guess what time it is!
https://i.imgur.com/eFsfHet.jpg Time for your regularly scheduled reminder that the game truly is forever. And also time for me to talk a bit more about poor Sougo, because I feel some people aren't giving him a fair shake. Byg42 and Librarian already made some good points, so I'll simply assert that I think the show has its reasons for characterizing him the way it has. I'll hold off on going into detail for now because next week seems like it's going to do a good amount more to flesh out his character. It's funny that Zi-O feels so fast, because in a lot of ways it's actually moving quite sluggishly. As for the episode itself, I enjoyed it about as much as the first two. This one felt a lot less crazy, which I suppose is only natural with so much of the exposition out of the way. The plot still felt fairly thin, and the way this show develops its cast continues to be... unusual, to say the least. One thing I mentioned about those first two episodes is that part of me felt there was more going on than it first looks like. I couldn't elaborate on that as much as I wanted to, but I have locked down one thing. Brief little exchanges, like Sougo bailing out a fellow student here, seem specifically written to reveal more about the characters on top of simply advancing the plot. It's as though the show knows how cramped it is, and tries to consolidate all types of dialogue into one to save time. The problem being everything goes by so fast it can be hard to tell exactly what you're meant to divine from a given conversation. The gradual evolution of Sougo and Geiz's relationship, for example, is pretty straightforward, but Sougo brushing off lying? Is it further proof that our little overlord-in-training doesn't take as much responsibility for his actions as he ought to? Another sign of how casually he's willing to help people out? Both? Neither? It's all pretty up in the air right now, and while I'm still supremely entertained by Zi-O, this is yet another new episode that hasn't done anything to assure me it won't fall apart and become complete nonsense somewhere down the line. I'd say I'm really relating to Geiz in that sense, but unlike him, I don't even have a hint where this is all going. |
Woz is the most interesting and frustrating character so far. He is literally a plot device. But his theatrics are very amusing. It would be very amusing if he is O-Ma Zi-O.
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It was a plain episode. Build's episode is much more interesting. I think there is no need to hide Emu like that. Geiz and Tsukuyomi going to school is just stupid. In the end of the episode Emu attacks Zi-O and Geiz, maybe Emu know about Zi-O might become an overlord in the future.
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Total geekout moment when Hiiro and Emu appeared. Only wish Poppy were in the mix too.
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But it is interesting to notice the subliminal moral lesson built into that. His lying for the other student is what led to that student progressing further in the game that then drew the monster out. So this aspect of trying to help out to get around a teacher had instant karma that followed that hospitalized the student. So that "helping" directly caused harm. That subtle "actions have repercussions, even if you're doing a bad thing for a good reason or to help someone." *Edit* Another interesting thing on this episode is that it briefly through metaphor talks about gaming too hard and ending up sick from that or deathly ill. It's there through the subtext, but also not in an overbearing manner. Interesting commentary to use Ex-Aid for. |
So, with Drive and Ghost's watches both already owned by Geiz, that leaves more room for more pre-2010 riders.
What are the odds we could get Takeru Satou to finally return as Den-O? |
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His not returning previously was a little bit more complicated than most and wishing him nothing but the best in his endeavors. It'd be a joy to have him back, as well as Yuriko Shiratori if she's feeling up to it, but I can also understand their hesitancy. |
It will be cool if Sato Takeru is back
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The Ex-Aid story in Zi-O in comparison doesn't seem to have anything similarly odd, since they actually had a finished work in this case. Quote:
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I can't seem to enjoy this show fully and I can't tell why, just something seems a bit off for me. So far the only character I do like is Woz because he is just amusing.
So if they pull Oma Zi-O is someone else then I place $5 that its his uncle. |
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Shouldn't really feel that "off" not much is actively all that different from the last 19 series about it. Every rider is different and approached differently to convey different things. This carries much of the same influences as the rest. Only difference being that it's celebrating the other 19. Woz and Wool are definitely two of my faves so far. Hora/Ora/Aura is definitely up there too, but she needs another episode to cement it. Tsukuyomi stands out the most fun to me, with Geiz as a close second after that butter knife stunt. As for Oma Zi-O. I lean on initially it's going to be Sougo, but then timeline shenanigans later, and it turns out to become someone else that took his belt, but not an Another rider Kaijin, and not a family member. Quote:
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The bigger thing here is ignoring the separate worlds stuff altogether though. This is more one unified timeline. More like Den-O in that regard. It's a bit more fourth wall breaking in that respect, that each time period visited is essentially visiting that show. Over thinking it beyond that is distracting from the other details in each episode. But your faiz stuff is spot on. The Another Rider sidesteps those deaths because of how it changes the timeline. Plus most of the Decade stuff was alternate realities anyway. There's more than one Takumi, there's a multiverse of them. Like how we saw a different Kuuga in Decade. So they've got open room to approach it. Though Build's homage wasn't so much as "Crammed in" as used to highlight the emphasis of the show to give how the formula of the show is going to work. Which is rather fitting considering Sento was all about formulas. Quote:
So the loop itself is in play, but this is also technically the second go around of the loop as far as we know. Oma Zi-O has already happened in the future, but that doesn't mean it'll still happen. This is what creates a multiverse, and the founding principle of multiverse theory. That choices create different timelines. Tsukuyomi and Geiz are from the future timeline where Oma Zi-O rose to power. They are at essentially the zero hour/zero days of their timeline. When it started in motion, but that timeline can still change, which they'd then be from a different alternate future, or alternate timeline. Like Doc and Marty in Back to the Future part 2. The journey of the show is how Sougo goes from average teen that wants to help and look out for people, to then dark overlord. What event set that in motion. How will it change, if it does change, will someone else rise up in his stead? And even if they do manage to change that event, that doesn't mean Oma Zi-O is erased either. It only means the future of this Sougo has changed. Alternate timeline Oma Zi-O will still exist. And has the ability to travel back in time too. Time isn't exactly a straight line, it's more like an if/then loop or spiderweb. Each strand that divides off is a different path, but if you track all strands back, they still all have one starting point. We could see a final battle that's two or even three Oma Zi-O's depending on how the show plays out, and how the timelines diverge across that spider-web. We could see a benevolent Sougo come back in time as that timeline comes into existence, we could see an alternate Zi-O dark rider come back if someone else in anger takes up the belt because of an event. We could see all kinds of possibilities depending on how they want to approach the story. Only thing we know for certain is that the Zi-O belt takes on all the riders and rewrites their timelines into non-existence so the zi-o belt is the only Rider left standing to rule them all(as of Oma Zi-O's timeline right now). But even that may have a different outcome in this version of the events loop. Which is likely where Drive and Ghost came from. Geiz and his fellow rebellion fighters stealing it from Oma Zi-O in the future. They are future relics, which means present day Zi-O hasn't acquired them yet or had them created. In instances like that, multiples of some ride armors can co-exist, because it'd be the same as if one of those riders traveled back in time. Like Den-O and his multiples of himself from time traveling to have all forms out during a battle. Because each was from a different time period. Or like Doctor Who having more than one doctor in an episode. Or like Back to the future 2 and how Doc and marty had to avoid interacting with themselves. Or they could be a sign of the last two riders standing in the future, that sacrificed their powers to create Geiz's ride watches. That part of the story is yet to be told. But with as often as it looked like various areas tried to topple Oma Zi-O, I lean on they made some minor gains which is why he flaunts his power even more in that opening battle, to emphasize how futile it is even with those gains. But don't overthink it to the continuity of other shows. This is its own show, its own continuity. It'll draw on the others as much as possible, but it will have to do some diverging points too. Because as the 2.5 points out, when a rider is 'erased' it's as if their show never existed at all. Which includes their movie events. This is essentially Den-O and Decade combined for a new way to celebrate the previous 19 series of riders, and give them a fitting send off before the birth of a new era. Don't think of it like a retcon or typical Marvel serialized comic or show. It's its own thing, but celebrating the others. So it's going to have some differences to each. Which tbh, is nothing new to riders. Every show tends to do that a bit. Even the Showa era did that to each other. And Wataru wasn't autistic. He was sheltered, divided between two worlds and had confidence issues. There's a difference. Though it's great if that makes him relatable to others, but lets not call him something he wasn't. His social issues came from his hermit lifestyle and lack of interaction more than any innate brain chemistry thing. Those are entirely two different things. That was kind of the importance of his neighbor outreach scenes in trying to get them to start to understand him instead of how they jumped to conclusions and made assumptions. By throwing such kind of commentary onto him, the audience is doing the same as his neighbors and not seeing him for what he's gone through or how he lived his life. He didn't have Asperger's syndrome nor was he on the spectrum. This is why through the course of the show we see his growth and how he comes out of his shell. |
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So Oma Zi-O was made through one loop. And now the Time Jackers, Geiz, and Tsukuyomi are trying to break that loop in different ways. ...Or maybe this is all one big causal loop, where everything they've done leads Sougo down the same path. Heck, Zi-O's already doing a causal loop with the Build watch. Even more heck, who's to say that Ghost watch, the Drive watch, and Faiz Phone X aren't versions from future episodes (created in those arcs, leaving pairs), given to past Tsukuyomi and past Geiz. This whole story seems to be an "ensuring future/past Ridewatch usage" thing. And I like it. And now my brain's melted. |
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Horo is definitely cuter than Tsukiyomi. But the casting is just right. She gets to be the Koyomi of the season. Complete with do nothing action. Far cry from Misora last season.
What has really helped me are the .5 episodes. I love the off hand methods of explaining things that Decade never did. And I wholeheartedly agree that this is what happens when you try to squeeze as much in as possible for an anniversary season. Rules of Zi-O: 1: Stop taking it seriously in an adult way. 2: Don't try to explain everything. You just can't. 3: If a Riders power shows up, just accept it for how it is. |
This episode was fine in my opinion. Couple things I noticed:
- Wool face and personality really makes me think of a really young Parad. - Woz is still oddly enough the most fun character out of the initial bunch for me. - Speaking of Woz, if the Time Jackers are each trying to "create" their own king, could that imply that Woz was/is Zi-O's Time Jacker? - There are these two moments in the fight where the camera just cuts to Tsukiyomi hiding behind the game blocks, did that seem weird to anyone else? Like... She's got the Faiz Phone X which can turn into a gun, can't they have her do something with that for the fight? I dunno, maybe shoot Another Ex-Aid for a bit and have her complain that he keeps jumping out of the way, and use that as the excuse for Geiz to bust out the Drive Armor? Honestly, I'm probably just saying that because I've been spoiled after a year of Banjo punching Guardians in the face. |
Man, I'm really liking this. Woz is as charismatic as he can be, Geiz' butter knife gag was good and Sougo gets some more characterization with self-sacrifice over something incredibly minor (the fight between 2 Edo people could have resorted in violence so there were some high stakes). Nice to see Hiro again, his fangirls that appeared for like 1 episode in Ex-Aid get acknowledged which gives me hope in the writing considering we also got a joke about Another Build wanting to hug Banjo. The German hints Emu left are neat because I can go "Oh hey I know what links and rechts mean". Also lol at the Konami code reference. Also, Another Ex-Aid is dope, remembered that Another Build has bullet holes and Another Ex-Aid here has mold, that's brilliant design. Disappointing Tsukoyomi didn't help with the fight as she stood out by shooting Another Build. Geiz Drive looks a lot better in motion than I thought it would. Also it's so nice to see the Ex-Aid suit in action again!
.5 EDIT: Goddamn I've missed these stupid netmovie skits, destroying Toei Studios is fucking amazing |
I guess this is what happens when we've been spoiled by two awesome seasons before that I view this as just...alright.
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Guys, it has been 3 episodes, neither Ex-Aid nor Build where giant fan favorites after just 3 episodes........
I feel like a lot of you are having some absurd expectations.... I am not going to lie, I myself have some issues with this season, but it has not been the first 3 episodes or the actors yet since there has not really been enough for me to fully judge the show, I simply do not like the main writer. But so far, the first 3 episodes have been okay and enjoyable. It is way to early to call the season a dud, bad or trash, just like it is way to early to call the season great, awesome or amazing.... 3 Episodes is not enough.... |
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