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Hmmm...here is some of my hopes for upcoming Kamen Rider Zi-O series:
- Don't too much forms. Some Riders like Ghost and Build has too much forms because too much forms will be wasted if the forms are never used again. I think 10 Forms (six series forms and four movie forms) are enough for Zi-O. - MOTW (Monster of The Week) concept are used again until episode 40 without too much focused on monsters. - The storyline divided into different arcs like Gaim and Build - Secondary Rider are hero since beginning until end because I really bored to Anti-Hero Secondary Riders. |
Build had 10 best matches, 7 more, 5 upgrades, and not to mention the random combo like ooo. I know they want to sell toys, but most of them are sloppy designs that aren't too memorable. I prefer lesser forms and more unique form that are useful at different situation, but not simple recolor like Kuuga or wizard.
I'm fine with no motw along with guests for the majority of the series. I also don't like repaint upgrade like the ones from ExAid showing up as filler motw. Nowadays, it's rider vs rider with different scheming. Anyway, I had a feeling we're going for a lighter tone after Build. |
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The last really lighthearted series we had was...Ghost? We could do with another lighthearted series that's actually well written, I think. |
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Frankly Build is the first show since Gaim (Granted, I haven't seen Ex-Aid yet) to really utilize its material and that's not plagued by incessant wacky cartoon hijinks that passes as "humor". |
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No more childish stuff. But anyway, what themes can suit Zi-O? |
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I'm also not saying I want 'gags' - what I want is something like Fourze, or Wizard (not that Wizard was brilliantly written either). Both dealt with dark subject matter in a lighthearted, hopeful way. Plus...Build resorts to gags sometimes anyway. Just this episode, Kazumin goes on a lengthy soliloquy to try and decide how to get Misora to call him 'Kazumin' rather than Grease, even going to put his arm around her before Sento wakes up. Not to mention, I can think of at least twice that the humor from the recap has bled into the episode itself. |
What themes do you picture Zi-O possessing?
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I hope for an anniversary series, though. |
I feel so blown away by Build I'm not sure I'm ready to start a 'weekly episode' Kamen Rider roller coaster again.
...of course by episode 15 I'll probably download them all, binge watch them, than be hooked. Exactly like what happened with Build. ..Build I made it to 12 episodes before I had to start watching. |
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-45uStmTKqg...01-d73b9s0.jpg |
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But what I hope for is something like Ultraman Orb & Geed. And for someone to be treated as a hero. |
What if. ZI-O means Kamen Rider 0 of the 21st century.
ZI=21 O=0 |
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ZI-O would be the 21st series of Heisei era. |
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Build's gags are few and far between even so. Nowhere near the annoyance levels of Wizard, Drive or Ghost. |
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*shrugs* Build's plenty gritty enough for me, so I'd quite like another lighter-hearted series myself, so...agree to disagree, I guess? I'm sure at some point in the next ten years of Rider, we'll both get what we're after. |
The issue becomes how light can Rider be without straying too far from what the series is all about. Phase 2 Heisei by and large hasn't been that great in striking a good balance.
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It also describes Ex-Aid pretty well too, for when you get to it, although it's writing really takes a nose dive in the thirties. Really solid show up until then, though - I can recommend. Tonally, it's quite close to Build, although its more reliant on gags than Build...whose only real gag was 'Banjou always kinkshames Sento finding Best Matches, lolz' - and that was both dropped very fast, and even worked into canon via him being Martian in origin. I'd bet money it was his inner Evolto helping him out (speaking of, how clever is that name? The guy goes on about evolution and has a penchant for speaking in Italian...then we find out his name is 'Evolution' in Italian). |
I want the next show to be trippy, whatever the tone. I mean, most Rider shows are pretty weird and Build is certainly no exception, I just want it to be tonally a bit weirder - like Inoue, but without his huge drawbacks (character non-building, convenient plot twists, crappy communication) - like his work on Agito. Or, it's not his work but, Blade is a goodexample of weird. I could definitely go for some weird comedy.
I'd also like there to be a bit more bike focus! I realize that bike stuff is hellishly expensive and dangerous but, at the same time - they're so damn COOL! |
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Yes, every Rider show is about "a man using evil powers to save lives and preserve justice and hope". My point is that for a lot of recent shows that gets drowned out in favor of excessive toy shilling and bad comedy. Fourze, Wizard, Drive, Ghost, all of them had the potential to do so much more with what they had, and they did have stuff to work with. Instead we get the adventures of Shunpei, SCU mental cases, and Onari and Akari's stupid science vs. supernatural bouts. Even making Donut Man Poitrine in Movie War Ultimatum instead of really doing a cool Avengers-esque crossover between Wizard, Fourze, Poitrine, Inazuman and Akumaizer-3 left me face-palming. |
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Except it served no purpose other than as a throwaway joke. That's not much of a service to an old Ishinomori heroine that they could've done something better with. Toei has beocme an expert at wasting material.
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I think I could go for something a bit lighter and like Fourze this time around too. Ex-Aid and Build are both really enjoyable but also just exhausting in some ways since they are almost constantly bombarding you with AWESOME PLOT. I by and large prefer shows like this but I feel like I need to catch my breath. :lol
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All a matter of balance. TOEI keeps pumping shows with similar tones and whatnot it can bring down the franchise by being stale. An upbeat show once in a while is always welcome and vice versa.
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Eh. I genuinely don't see the issue. At the end of the day it's a kid's show and while they can be dark and gritty, that isn't the norm. Fourze worked excellently, having great toy sales and was deliberately made to be a more lighthearted, friendly show due to the 2011 earthquake. After two more edgier seasons, a lighthearted one could be welcome. If it still ends up dark, I'll be fine with that but the writing's more important to me than the tone.
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The issue is that a show like Kamen Rider, by its nature, requires a specific tone and specific elements. You can go up and down the scale of how much you want to have, but you can't go too far into the light, wacky nonsense side just because "it's a kids' show" and that's as far as you want to think about it.
Fourze's lighter tone ended up hurting it because of the story it was telling: you can't have a setting where an alien-worshiping cult is running a school seeking out recruits and treat it happy-go-lucky. (I like Fourze for the most part, by the way, but I do think it underachieved.) You can't have a Liveman-esque "Friends, why have you sold your souls to the devil?" setup (where the heroes' fellow classmates are becoming Horoscopes) and not do more with it. Yuki vs Aquarius, JK vs Capricorn, Pisces as a rogue, Ares, Taurus, all could've gone places if they hadn't rushed through the Horoscopes to get to the ending, and used these characters for longer arcs. This whole "be light in the face of real-life bad stuff" is the argument for Ohranger's schizophrenia. I think that was a missed opportunity also: a "hope over adversity" message with maybe some tweaking of the original story (but not to the extent that they did) could've worked and been much more meaningful. |
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Like, I can see where you're coming from...I just fundamentally don't agree. I think Build is one of the best Rider series they've done...but so is Den-O. Also, re: Ohranger...it was changed because people were breaking into houses and stabbing people as part of a cult movement. No terrified child should have to watch their favourite show on a Sunday morning, wanting just a moment of peace...only to be scared by that, too, just to please adults. I agree that Ohranger...is a disaster as a result...but it was still the best thing to do for the target audience. |
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Honestly, I'm really sick of the "kids' show" argument that I've seen for years. It's just a way to end a conversation and stop thinking. "Oh it's for kids, you're not the target audience so it doesn't matter what you say." Why bother even having online forums, then? Yet at the same time the fandom likes to extol what Japanese shows can get away with as opposed to American shows. Well, if that's the case, then maybe it's worth discussing when Japan falls short of the their previously established mark? |
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Each one of them is hugely popular, and has reasons to be so, even if I disagree with them. I wasn't arguing that you were wrong...just that it is your opinion, and not a fact. The tone of your post very much seems to imply that your opinion that a Kamen Rider show 'needs' to be this, that, or the other...are some written-into-stone fact, and I was/am pointing out that...no they aren't. Amazons and Den-O look resemble, in many ways, Garo and Super Sentai more than they do Kamen Rider. But they're still Kamen Rider. There is virtually nothing shared between them - even the 'man with evil powers fighting for hope, peace and justice' backbone is heavily distorted between the two. Kamen Rider...can be anything it wants to be. It can be lighter than you want, and darker than I want...that doesn't make it 'a bad show' objectively, just a bad show to us, subjectively. With regards to the stabbings, I apologize - I misremembered. The head of the cult was stabbed with a kitchen knife in the middle of the street (I believe in response to the stabbings). But...are you serious? Why bother having online forums, really? Just because something is a kids' show (which Kamen Rider is and always has been) doesn't mean there aren't multiple things to discuss about it. There is no point not bringing it up because...Kamen Rider is a kids' show. It's bound by what a kids' show can be. It's primary purpose is to sell toys. Toei and Bandai consider Gaim a success not because of the show - it's ratings were absolutely terrible - but because the toyline was a smash-hit with its target audience. Ghost is just the same - the Ghost Eyecons were hugely popular, and the Rider Gashats of Ex-Aid broke new records. Ignoring all of that means you're arguing with only half the story. Why doesn't Evolto activate the Evol Trigger this episode? Whatever answer the show gives us, the real reason is that the Evol Trigger in the show represents the Evol Trigger Toy...not released until June. Some shows - like Ex-Aid and Build are fantastic at writing around those limitations. Why doesn't Sento use the new Belt like Banjou? Because his Hazard Level - an established piece of lore - isn't high enough. Others, like Ghost, are not so great at it. Where does Takeru get the power to achieve Mugen Soul? Um. He just does. That's a reason for discussion right there. |
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Maybe fans are just so used to modern Toei's way of making shows that they consider that the standard? Quote:
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You must also remember that, as I said, Kamen Rider can't be too dark. Toei was hit with a huge backlash on Twitter after Kamen Rider Lazer was brutally killed on Christmas Day, after his toys had just come out. You had a whole nation of kids who may have just received a toy of their favourite character for Christmas...they excitedly watch to see what he does this week...and he dies. Kamen Rider usually does death very well (Aoba from Build in particular)...but killing off the most developed member of the cast, just after his toys came out and on Christmas Day...is a justifiable cause for kids to be upset. The whole controversy is probably why he was revived, honestly. The 'problem' isn't that Toei is pandering to its target audience, but that people like you mistakenly think that Toei should instead stay true to some arbitrary standards of some random guy on the internet. Shin Kamen Rider and Amazons are outliers by design - they aren't, and thankfully, never will be. The 'some fans' here refers to you. Amazons is based on Amazon, too, after all... And Amazon is the friendliest Kamen Rider save for, maybe, Gentaro. That was in the eighties, man. Kamen Rider hasn't changed...you're just clinging to the few times it has been as edgy as you want. |
Shotaro Ishinomori is not "a random guy on the Internet". Stop acting like any criticism toward too much comedy translates to wanting every show to be a gorefest.
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I like Kamen Rider for having a serious story and tone to it since that's how the original shows would do. The original Kamen Rider was about a man losing his humanity after becoming a cyborg while fighting against evil. That's one of the reasons what got me into Kamen Rider is the subtext in the stories. What I have been enjoying from Build so far is the general themes and tone of the show. Yeah it does have some goofy stuff in it, but I don't mind it time to time.
I don't mind fun campy stuff once and a while, but I have my limits on how lighthearted it can be. Quote:
Honestly, the whole "Oh it's for kids, you're not the target audience so it doesn't matter what you say." is pretty much true. We are not kids in Japan watching these shows. So they are not going to care. It reminds me how people on Kanzenshuu where about Dragon Ball Super when Dragon Ball is for kids just as much as Kamen Rider is. While we may not be the main demographic for these shows, I do agree that they should put effort in these shows and still appeal to a wilder audience. Something like Kamen Rider has substance to it while stuff like Teen Titans Go, Ben 10 and most American cartoons fallen under the bargain bin label in my opinion (Stuff that no one really cares about anyways). |
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Just saying, that's the target audience. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for, but at the end of the day, Toei only cares about toy sales and it's clearly working out for them. At the end of the day Kamen Rider is a toy commercial so your "NEED DARK LIGHT BAAAD" is already kinda ruined by the sheer toyetic nature that's always working. If Kamen Rider Build wasn't a Kamen Rider show, I could get a bunch of people to try it, but no they see a techno music sword or pirate train gun and back out. |
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