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Do Tokusatsu Cast And Crew Scandals Affect You!?
Since many over in the Revice thread think that the revelation surrounding Subaru Kimura's blackface controversy needs its own thread, I think it's a good idea to make a thread about any and all tokusatsu scandals regarding cast and crew and how that can affect people negatively and whether our love for a show involving multiple people can be affected by the misdeeds of one person.
Let's be clear: What Kimura did is NOT OKAY!!! There is no justification for being that damn stupid! Many are saying that watching Revice will not indicate support for Kimura's actions nor put any money into Kimura's pocket. There is a certain amount of truth to that, but there is also something to be said about loving a show and NOT calling out someone's misdeeds! I don't think we can ever truly forget this fact nor should we. It happened, and Kimura needs to realize what he did wrong in order to make-up for it. Toei should also recognize that if they intend to push Kamen Rider in the West, then scandals involving the people who work on these shows could affect how these shows are received and whether someone's financially-detached love of a scandal-involved show will affect how much financial support is given to further the Western distribution of that show! I myself am not happy with this Revice revelation, but I also haven't made a final decision regarding Revice The Show either! I won't demonize a fansub group who opts to sub Revice, but I also won't complain if another fansub group opts out of subbing Revice either. I'm also not going to complain if people choose to watch Revice and comment on it. However, I will not hesitate to remind anyone that THIS HAPPENED and that it SHOULDN'T BE IGNORED NOR FORGOTTEN!!! Love the designs and the show, but not the VA! I'll also admit that I've recently been re-watching Kyuranger and this affects that too! I'm not ready to totally say no to Kyuranger yet, but I have no immediate desire to emulate the vocal stylings of the Seiza Blaster either! In a perfect world, Toei would issue a statement saying that they take this seriously and while the show will start with Kimura's voice, the character of Vice will be re-cast prior to completion and that Blu-Ray, DVD, and Streaming will be delayed so that they can re-dub all of the earlier episodes with a different actor who can approximate whatever voice Kimura will use for Vice. Again, I see this as the best of a bad situation, but I'm not all that optimistic about it happening either. The best we can really hope for is that Toei will be more conscientious regarding the hiring of actors and VA in the future. It should also be noted that the misdeeds of Kimura are not the only time such matters happen either! The guy from Gaim comes to mind. Does the Revice scandal affect your early affection for Revice? Will you watch the show, or have you not yet made a decision? Have similar scandals in the past affected your love for older shows? Do you hope Toei is paying attention and will make changes in the future? Share here. |
… this is an extremely loaded thread title, wow
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nope
I'm not so fucking delusional that I'm incapable of enjoying an actor's work without condoning their actions. there are so many worse scandals even in toku alone and they never affected my enjoyment or the enjoyment of many others. |
Yes and No.
Yes in that when someone does something I don't agree with, I tend to get a bit riled up sometimes. No in that I am still capable of enjoying someone's work despite the unfortunate things they have done. |
I'm a bit mixed.
I won't be watching the show, but I still wanna keep up with it because I'm curious as to how it will do with all the 50th anniversary stuff. Currently thinking of watching henshins and keeping up with toy reviews and scans, but not watching the show. I have a hard time separating actor and character. I can sometimes do that for the shows I really love. But for the most part I struggle with that. If Vice gets dubbed over, which is unlikely given Kimura's popularity AFAIK, I'll consider watching the show. If someone from Ex-Aid/Ghost/Saber/(insert another show I like) was revealed as lgbt-phobic or racist, of course I'd take issue with it. Would that affect my enjoyment of the show? Kinda. But would I still like the show? Of course, though it might be knocked down a few places, maybe. And yet this is a show I haven't seen because it's new and hasn't aired yet. With a problematic actor in a major role, and who voiced a changer from a show I absolutely love (even though I'm only on episode 7). So I'm a bit confused on how to handle all this. I get that people take umbridge with people boycotting Revice because of this. And yet it doesn't really affect the show or sales or anything. Toys will still be bought by online stores to sell. The show will still be aired and will make ratings. So it really just comes down to personal preference, same as any other show aired in the past. Except a wrench was thrown in this time. I'm happy for those who can separate characters from their actors (i.e. "Vice is played by Vice, Kimura who?"). But for me? I struggle to do it sometimes. Especially since I was looking so much to Revice. I feel like what I plan on doing might be a good middle ground. I dunno. I'm so confused. |
I feel like for a work of fiction, I'd be more affected if it was the writer who did something bigoted, because then I'd be constantly wondering if their bigotry was leaking into the story. Like if Revice's writer turned out to be a racist, I couldn't watch the show without thinking "is this character a racist stereotype? Is this conflict racially coded? Is this show subtly teaching kids that racism is okay?" because fiction can have a lot more influence than we realize on how we think and I don't want it to influence me in a bad way.
But with actors I can usually separate them from their characters, especially since Vice won't even have Kimura's face. Just like how nice actors can play evil villains, jerkish actors can, unfortunately, play heroes. And since I doubt the actors and writers have much say in who they're cast to work with, I don't fault anyone else for working on Revice except whatever casting director picked Kimura for the role. I also (and this might be weird) think whether or not you enable an artist who does bad things to keep doing said bad things matters a whole lot more than whether you actually support their views, because you can claim to disagree with someone all you want but if you're still giving them money and a platform you're still helping them keep doing whatever it is you claim to be against. And none of us here matter enough to Toei for us to enable Kimura one way or the other. So I won't feel any guilt at all for watching Revice and (hopefully) enjoying it. I'll probably avoid complementing Vice's actor and just direct any praise to Vice himself, but that's as far as I think my responsibility goes. I also think being able to enjoy and criticize something simultaneously is a necessary skill. Because if you can't enjoy anything with problems, soon you'll find yourself with nothing to enjoy at all. BUT if enjoying something blinds you to its problems, then people can slip all kinds of toxic ideas into your head without you even noticing. While I'm rambling, I do think a lot of the fear and outrage about cancel culture/political correctness/witch hunts/whatever they're calling it this week is overblown, and without getting too tinfoil-hat about it, I think some of it is intentionally cultivated. People do legitimately bad things that they really should face consequences for, then instead of admitting they screwed up they start crying "there's an angry mob out to get me! They'll come after anyone these days! YOU could be next!" to make themself seem like the victim and get innocent bystanders on their side. But that's not super relevant to the Revice situation so I'll stop now. |
Let me start off by saying that there's absolutely no way this topic doesn't eventually get locked.
That being said, while I personally have no issue separating the art from the artist, I see nothing wrong with somebody not wanting to support the work of people who do crummy things. People want to see others held accountable for the crappy things that they do, and when the powers that be don't hold them accountable, people take things into their own hands. In fact, I find the outrage against "cancel culture" to be far more annoying than "cancel culture" itself. I wasn't planning on watching Revice either way - I hate watching shows as they air, and I have far too many other things in my life that take priority over it. edit: As others have said...the rest of the cast and crew have done nothing wrong, so if you're on the fence about whether to watch it...watch it for their sake. Also, I fixed a typo. |
It probably should, but I'm kind of jaded by this point. There are only so many times that you can find out that someone involved in a piece of media that you care about is a scumbag before you just have to swear off media in general. If it was someone more directly involved in the creation than a voice actor or if the prejudice was worked into the story, then that would be a different situation. The voice actor isn't the only person involved in the show and it's not fair to punish everyone involved just because one of their castmates is an asshole.
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Okay... I wasn't intending to get involved in this, but just to clear any misconceptions about me looking forward to, and potentially enjoying Revice, I'm going to say my piece.
Now, I don't like getting into these kinds of discussions, one of the reasons I'm avoiding social media like the plague. Just hearing anything about controversy and cancel culture is depressing, and that's something I have enough of, but I feel I need to get this off my chest. Just as FairyKing said, at least it's not the writer or any other high ranking executive who supports acts like this. Should I come out of Revice and Vice ends up being my favorite character, it will be for Vice and Vice alone. I do not support his inappropriate acts, but that will not prevent me from enjoying this show, or any other piece of media. I'm going to end this with a famous line: "Nobody's Perfect." |
Lol @ “Cancel Culture”…. that’s Projection. It’s actually CONSEQUENCES for your actions Culture..
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If i'm not wrong Kimura has apologized to public shortly after the Blackface.
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I never saw any apology? From what i know he deleted it and blocked anyone who brought it up. Which could mean a lot of things
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I've never seen any evidence of an apology from him, or even any acknowledgment it happened at all, just the classic delete and block
If im wrong and someone has a source of any apology or acknowledgement I'd be interested in seeing it tho |
Only sort of on topic but I feel like this is worth mentioning
Recently people were bullying Taka of kotetsu-toys-japan.jp, calling him a racist for selling revice toys I feel like this shouldn't need to be said, but don't bully people over this stuff please If you want to send Toei politely worded emails, or calmly make others aware of the situation that's fine But bullying sub groups, toy sellers, or fans just for subbing the show, selling toys, or enjoying the show is super uncool Buying (and especially reselling) toys will not directly support Kimura financially, if you are choosing to not buy this line of toys because you don't want to show Toei (who do still make profit off the toys to my understanding) support in their casting decision, that is a choice I completely understand, but people buying toys they think they'll enjoy does not make them racist, and people continuing to sell toys that they rely on selling to make a living is certainly not racist However if you see people on social media saying stuff like "I support Kimura, why can't anyone take a joke anymore! I'm going to watch the show to support him!" that's obviously different, you don't need to support those people, but even then I'd say try to calmly disagree with them, then you can always mute or block them if they start bothering you, it is never okay to harass anyone This is also just not the situation with Taka... Taka is a super nice guy, he's very patient and understanding, and he doesn't deserve to be harassed (like I said nobody does) I've bought things from Taka before and he's been very patient with me when I've had trouble getting money together to pay for my pre-orders, he's a total sweetheart I know a lot of us are upset with everything going on but please do not harass anyone |
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When it comes to scandals and issues like with Kimura's past actions, the way I see it is as follows:
It shouldn't be ignored and should be pointed out as an issue. Especially if Toei wishes to expand the brand out to other countries more heavily. It's something they should acknowledge as problematic for their potential overseas viewerbase. While some issues western fans have with JP media get super over-blown to the point where I don't even blame JP creators from ignoring them outright, stuff like this shouldn't be ignored. THAT SAID...You're not doing a disservice to anyone if you still decide to watch the series or purchase and goods. Kimura's paycheck comes from Toei. We pirate the stuff, thus no money goes to the show. We buy the merch, but that goes to Bandai. If someone chooses not to support Revice for any reason connected to Kimura and his actions, that's 100% respectable and understandable. If someone acknowledges the issues but still wishes to watch Revice and purchase any goods because they're able to look at the show on its own, again that's 100% respectable and understandable. But if you suddenly think that either people aren't watching it over something trivial or meaningless OR you think that anyone still watching or buying Revice merch supports the problem and is racist or anything, you're completely out of line and need to sit down, shut up and re-think the situation and people's threshholds. I acknowledge that Kimura is problematic and would be more than okay if he were replaced at some point. I also know that I will be watching Revice and buying the Figuarts because I'm able to detach the actor from the show (Even moreso since he's just a voice). Does that mean I'm racist? No. And neither is anyone else with that same mindset. It's one thing to spread awareness. It's another to try to force ideals on others and witch hunt those who don't respond the exact way you do. |
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To answer the question: Context matters.
I don't know the full context on everything the guy has done. First thing I've seen of these "allegations" was that linked tweet. That one seems totally on par with the dark humour I see. I don't know whether the guy actually was attacking any people or culture actively with malicious intention. I've grown up watching different shows on TV where there's a lot of "blackface" done with all the motifs of "Beware of those who you call ugly back in high school". Usually ends up the "mocked" character becomes "the result of doing good plastic surgery with whiter, fairer skin and all and now the one your lover(s) wants to f*** instead". Who knows... I'm totally blind with all the stuff he did. He probably committed actual physical acts of discrimination or assault against people from different ethnicity and culture. One of pure malicious intent. That's actually where I draw the line and start protesting. If everything he has done was just on the level as the one from that tweet. I really don't see any reason to go full ham with the "cancelling". Protest is understandable and encouraged to voice discontent but going beyond the line is just a big no-no. Taka's getting involved too so I'm truly worried. While we should not dismiss all the horrible things a person has done, the domino effect of voicing complaints against one guy to involving figures whose work is to sell toys with harassment is just outrageous. For me, this isn't the same level as with Monica Rial and Sabat where actual harm is fully done. |
Can someone please tell me what they mean by “””cancelling””” already it’s thrown around so much as a scary word but as far as i can tell means fucking nothing
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A lot of them were even winners / runner ups at the Junon Superboy contest. Lots of KR and SS alumni hail from that pageant. Of the trio, I think Rintaro's actor is the newest one in the acting industry. |
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I'm using said word in quotations here since the scope of the word is baffling and the people who kept using it the most (at least from my understanding) are just bored individuals who have nothing do much while dumping a lot of time in social media. |
So dramatic wording aside it’s literally nothing
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I get that these people are portraying characters that kids look up to, but I mean...George Carlin played beloved Children's character Mr. Conductor on a PBS series while also holding stand-up shows where he'd curse up a storm and comment on political issues. They're people first. They can do what they'd like so long as it's not tarnishing their career. As for the term "cancelling", it's less making someone bow down and apologize for their actions, which honestly should be what the outcome should be if the person in question is sincere about it, and more literally ensuring the person never gets work in their medium again. When people try to cancel someone, they will ensure as many higher-up eyes get on it as possible so the person loses out on future employment, current employment, etc. You're literally "cancelling" their career. For some problematic individuals, it's karma. But unfortunately it's something internet culture has blown so far out of proportion that you have people basically looking though someone's past just to find anything to cancel them for just because...I dunno they did something they didn't like, or something trivial. It's the definition of toxicity 9 times out of 10. |
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If the Vice VA issued a formal apology at least, then it would make things a little easier, but only by so much. |
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EDIT: She was his ex fiancé, not ex wife and only mentioned one woman being a minor when Vic pulled his shit on her |
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And then people outside those communities decided saying things were "cancelled" was fun and trendy, and started throwing the term around meaninglessly to show off how "woke" they were or insult anything they didn't like. Which in turn enabled other people to turn "cancel culture" into a scary buzzword that they can use to make themselves (or whoever they're defending) seem like the victims whenever anyone tries to make them take responsibility for doing something bad. To those who aren't used to their actions having consequences, being held accountable feels like being persecuted. This article talks about things in more absolute terms than I agree with, but it does make an important point that many people who "get cancelled" don't actually suffer any lasting damage to their careers, even if they make no attempt to fix their awful behavior: https://newsone.com/3852268/cancel-culture-is-a-myth/ |
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I associate Vic with his role as Android 17 on Dragon Ball Super, and even though I continue to watch Super when it comes up in rotation on Toonami, I take a detached viewership position by not liking 17's dub voice and not condoning anything he did. 17's role is significant in the "Tournament of Power" arc, but that's as far as Vic will ever go with the role given that even Funimation wants little to do with him now. It is bothersome, but I also know that if a new movie (which there will be one soon) or series revival is ever done by Toei and licensed by Funimation, Vic will NEVER voice 17 again even if 17 has a significant role to play! |
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Funimation has also completely blacklisted him because the roles he had in Dragon Ball were later replaced. Johnny Yong Bosch ends up voicing Broly(Super) instead in Dragon Ball FighterZ, even though Vic Mignogna voiced Broly in all of the movies he appeared in before. |
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I've only seen the recent Broly Movie once, in a theater. I might see it once more, but it's not an immediate necessity. P.S.: I haven't smoked anything in my life...yet! |
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Go read these ANN articles: Jan 2019: 'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna Feb 2019: Funimation Will Not Engage Vic Mignogna on Future Productions April 2019: Vic Mignogna Sues Funimation, Jamie Marchi, Monica Rial, Ronald Toye Do you get the full story now? |
No, what Subaru Kimura did in no way affects my enjoyment of the show. I haven't even seen it. Kimura has taken down the tweets and Toei is no way endorsing his behavior.
The Kamen Rider Duke scandal is far more impactful. His actor was arrested for indecent assault. Twice. That is a HUGE difference between the two actors behavior. One is an offensive joke(s), the other is committing assault. The latter has victims with real physical damage. Ultimately, "cancel culture' seems to have really bad aim and has odd priorities. When Johnny Depp loses roles and work but Amber Heard continues getting work something is wrong. Abusers are rewarded and victims are punished. |
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I do watch anime, but I tend to watch it on Toonami and use that as inspiration. Whenever I stream anime, it's either because I have something very specific in my head at the time (like older Gundam series) or because I've become increasingly engrossed in an anime on Toonami and don't want to wait a week for a follow-up! Quote:
There was something on I saw recently that I think is strangely applicable here as well. It wasn't referring to Kimura or the thing he did wrong, but it feels like it could be easily recycled: why is it so difficult for ppl to distinguish between "this person is a literal bigot and should not have a platform" and "this person is not actively malicious but has accidentally done a couple harmful things that should be addressed" and "this person has made a few poor taste jokes several years ago but has since grown as a person" and "this person simply just didn't know the 'proper' term for something" Do I think Kimura should not have a platform cause he's a terrible person? I'm undetermined cause I only know of the one bad thing he did, but that relates to the second part in that there is no evidence that I know of in which he's actively continuing his stupidity. Of note, the second part does suggest that even old harm should be addressed. The third could definitely be used toward Kimura, but only to a point as deleting a post or two doesn't actually suggest any growth. If evidence is revealed that suggests an apology, then growth can be acknowledged. I don't think this is a moment in which the Fourth part is applicable in the strictest sense, but Kimura has spent time in the U.S. and should've known better! As to the Depp/Heard case, I'm not particularly knowledgeable in that one. I tend to only hear things in passing, and it has also been awhile there too. Speaking in a less specific context, then I say that when "Abusers are rewarded and victims are punished", it's more about the antipathy toward accountability and consequences...and "C.C." in general! |
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