|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
For something people seem so scared of, it doesn’t seem anyone can agree on what it is or describe it in more than vague terms… but what can you expect from trendy buzzwords, I suppose.
|
"Cancel culture" rarely sees anyone permantly lose work, outside of the people who have done the very worst things, like Weinstein
Most people who get cancelled continue to get work, many just have to shift their target audience to the people who actually liked whatever they did (look at Louis C.K. for an example of that method of recovery, now he just caters to the people who supported him) One of the most famous early Internet "cancellings" I can remember is James Gunn, and while that must have been rough at the time it's hard to say it permanently hurt his career. Suicide Squad 2 is done production, and since Disney even rehired him now Guardians 3 and the Guardians Holiday special are in early production If we're talking about celebrities who didn't commit literal crimes it seems like few who have been "cancelled" have lost all prospects of future work, I can think of more who are still working off the top of my head honestly A recent example would be Gina Carano, who got picked up to be in some movie Ben Shapiro is making pretty much the instant Disney cut ties with her On the internet celebrity side of things I'd say many notably "cancelled" people are doing the same or sometimes better than before they were "cancelled" JonTron is one of the earliest Internet cancellings I remeber being around for and now my understanding is he has more subscribers than ever Some more recent one's include ProJared who managed to make a nearly complete recover after he literally received nudes from minors and sent nudes to minors, many people say it wasn't his fault because he asked people their age, but it was only due to his own lack of responsibility and his choice to create a NSFW blog aimed at getting nudes from his fans that it even happened, it was all due to his own decisions... yet he recovered from that Recently Dan Avidan and Vinny from vinesauce have also largely survived getting "cancelled" with minimal acknowledgment of the issue on their parts People act like cancel culture is so scary, but most of the time people just want an explanation or apology, it gets blown out of proportion, and then the target recovers regardless of if they actually ever owner up to what they did It's largeky a buzzword at this point the way people use it, and not a real threat to you or most people Quote:
|
The thing is to me that also just sounds like the free market. Celebrity does something; people don’t like it, criticise them and don’t support it. Sometimes they lose their job due to unpopularity but that’s the way the world is. Always been this way lol
|
Quote:
But even then being removed from one show/project/company does not equal the end of your career In the case of Kimura, even if toei cut ties with him he'd likely still be able to get other acting jobs, even if he didn't he has a lot of dedicated fans in Japan, so he has lots of options, for example he could probabaly start a profitable streaming career capitalizing on his fans and there's nothing anyone could do to stop him |
here's the thing regarding the op post and I hate going here but Social Justice/Wokeness/political correctness/race relationships whatever you can think of regarding Vice's VA isn't really as big of a hot button issue in Japan as it is over here (if Zero One aired in America Twitter would have been furious how Yabia was handled and why most African characters in Kamen Rider are complete Grade A stereotypes) and if Toei had to appease either their local audience or their niche national audience who do you think they're gonna appease I get why your upset and I do think he should issue an apology statement for the tasteless statements he made and some of his performances but you get the point
|
Some people go for the separation of the art from the artist. But for me, it is hard to do. You enjoy the art, you enjoy the characters and naturally you get attracted to the real faces behind them. But when the real face turns out to be a horrible person, it creates conflict in you.
Can you enjoy the fictional character completely ignoring the real face behind it? Can you call your favorite character your hero when you know the one who portrayed said hero was going against what your hero does? Or, are you willing to ignore all the wrong the real face has done just to enjoy your fantasy? Because fictional actions stay fictional, but the real actions happens in real life, they hurt real people and it's not easy to ignore that or brush it aside. Example: I like Stanley Kubrick's films, mostly the Shining, but I can't see that film without remembering how abusive he was on set and the psychological damage he caused to Shelly Duval. I can't enjoy Bill Cosby's shows ignoring the crimes he did. I can't enjoy Activision or EA games knowing the many abuses they have done to their development teams. Some of these stuff cannot be ignored just because they deliver great art. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
That's completely ignorant of you to think Cancel Culture is just a boogie man. Normally anyone that says that probably takes part in it themselves. Vic Mignogna has been blacklisted after those accusations hit, all because he was a christian, which the people in Funimation don't like him for. Quinton Flynn was recently hit with it that cost him roles, like NMH3 and getting removed from WoW, even though he took the accuser to court and actually won it, so he's innocent, but the damage was done and we don't know if he'll get any roles again. Chris Avellone got hit with it and guess what, not getting work, even though he said the person was full of shit, which he backed up. Developer of that Harry Potter game, all because he watches videos of people criticizing SJW's, which is not against the law as I recall. That's the idea of cancel culture, hurt them and the careers with out of context and lies. Saying how most people bounce back from is insanely insensitive to the ones that don't bounce back and their lives ruined. |
Quote:
Like, I don’t know what kind of person he is, everyone makes mistakes. I don’t want to judge him solely on the two instances where he fucked up, but he fucked up so royally you kind of wonder why an adult purposefully went through with this instead of thinking “Hey, this isn’t cool, maybe I shouldn’t do this”. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
I say that as someone who absolutely adores Vic's work. |
Quote:
If you're the one to tell someone that things they like are bad they're more likely to get upset with you than to agree with you right away, it's scary to call out shitty things, most people in fact do not like to break bad news to people I knew kids in school who would be harassed by jerks saying shit like "go back to the kwik-e-mart Apu" that shit was rough on them, but they had to act like it was fine, because they felt like if they let the bullies see it hurt them the bullying would just get worse It's not easy to fight back against negative representation, or against abusers, or just shitty people, when those representations or people are normalized or popular, it's not weird that it took a long time for the backlash to become loud enough and out in the open enough that it felt like a floodgate opened, before the internet it was hard to see how small bits of hurt to people could add up, it was hard to see everyone who's life was negatively effected by poor representation, but now it's easy to see how that can add up I also have to point out that Vic is working still, he did the JoJo part 4 dub, and the Thus Spoke Kishibe Rohan dub long after getting cancelled, so using Vic as an example of a poor man hurt by cancel culture rings hollow (also he was cancelled because he was very creepy to minors, not because of his faith) And for some of the the other examples llike the game dev, well its like Kurona said, this is just the free market in action, if people don't like someone they don't need to give them money, they have no reason to, and if companies see people won't buy things certain people are in or work on they won't really hire them It doesn't really matter if someone did a crime or not, the public doesn't owe anyone their money or support Clearly these people haven't lost all support either, I mean you're here supporting them right? They must still have fans and supporters, so it's hard for me to buy into the idea that any of these people are totally ruined I've seen dozens of total creeps bounce back into success, it's the norm not the exception Plus while it can feel like everyone's out to cancel everyone, for every tweet saying "This celebrity did a bad thing!" there's usually just as many tweets supporting that person, or calling the people upset "snowflakes" or whatever |
Quote:
Why shouldn't Kimura's career be thriving? Cause he posted really bad and insensitive jokes? They've been deleted and he's not going around getting work because of his racist iconography. He's getting work cause of his voice acting. Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Again, Depp still had quite a few roles during that ordeal so no, he wasn't deprived of his roles. The issue with cancel culture is that it doesn't actually exist in the way people like to say it does, John Boyega has been massively critical of Disney and is now struggling to find work as he's gotten less roles since that happened whereas Roman Polanski admitted to raping a 13 year old in court in 1978 yet he's made countless award winning movies since despite never actually suffering consequences for it as he fled the country, it's a convinient narrative that punishes victims whereas abusers get defended constantly by weirdos, see how Mignogna was stated to be fired just because of his religion despite countless allegations against the man and how his career got ruined not by Funimation for firing him, but rather himself for sueing Funimation with massively incompetent lawyers and how despite this he *still* gets invited to cons. It's a buzzword used to downplay anything serious while protecting abusers because quite frankly, it's about putting victims down, the recent ActiBlizzard stuff being another example as a lot of people who claim women lie to get clout and ruin the lives of innocent people started claiming the lawsuit was also a sham because "Oh where's the proof? What's the side of the men?" Completely ignoring how it was already investigated for 2 years and how the lawsuit came from the government rather than any specific individuals |
Quote:
My bad about the OVA, could have sworn it was him but I stand corrected, wonder why they didn't just redub him for Part 4 then... anyways he does still have some post-cancelling roles as well as upcoming projects, so to me he still just looks like another creep who's going to recover fine, so he just really isn't evidence of "Cancel culture bad", he's a sex creep who finally has some consequences, but sadly he's still probabaly going to keep working and going to Cons without ever really apologizing or probabaly even understanding what he did wrong |
(Appologies for double posting but this has been bothering me)
I keep seeing people saying stuff like "what Kimura did wasn't that bad compared to others", or "racism isn't a crime" so I just feel like I have to say "other people have done worse things" is an extremely flimsy argument, at least in my eyes You have to take situations at face value not try to rank them by tiers Yes some actions are worse than others, but that's not at all relevant to if an action was bad or not, it's not really logical or reasonable to just say "someone else has done a worse thing, so I don't care about this" Tbh this reminds me of the type of behaviour from people who will tell you to "suck it up" when you've been badly hurt, because they've been MORE hurt before "Oh you broke your leg? Suck it up, I've broken both legs before and I got through it" That sort of reasoning is just flawed, if someone broke their leg it doesn't matter how many people have been hurt waaaaaay worse, they're still going to be in a lot of pain It stands to reason as well that if an actor does something shitty, the fact that other actors have done waaaaaaaay shitier things doesn't negate that You can always name a a worse thing, a more severe crime, a bigger problem, smth more offensive, it's just not a helpful mind set, it feels more like a way to make excuses more than anything else. People should be held accountable for their actions regardless of their severity Like if I see someone verbally bullying someone else, should I just go "well they didn't commit assault or murder so there's no point intervening"? I think it's obvious that that wouldn't be a logical rationalization, it would just be an excuse to not get involved This way of thinking also seems to pre-suppose that there's some sort of quantifiable level of bad actions that it's worth discussing, and anything below that level isn't even worth talking about? That just seems contrived and baseless, it just feels like a way to not have to think about how actors you may like may say shitty things occasionally It doesn't matter that worse things have happened in the history of all time, Kimura did smth that can hurt and offend people, and regardless of if it's illegal, it's a shitty thing to do I don't need Kimura to never work again or whatever, he does not deserve to be in an extreme situation like losing his livelihood or becoming homeless (no person really does), all I am expecting is accountability in equal measure to the action, evidence that he understands what he did was wrong and that he genuinely regrets it, not because it could hurt his career, but because it could have / has hurt other people And if he can't demonstrate that, or if he hasn't grown, then my only hope would be that he doesn't portray characters (specifcally heroes) for children... adults can make informed purchasing decisions and have more control over what people they look up to, kids don't really have that same awareness about celebrities I also just don't see how "someone who did black face shouldn't portray a hero for kids, or should at least genuinely apologize first" is somehow an extreme position to take, or why it's a stance so many people seem quick to argue against |
Quote:
|
Quote:
[QUOTE=Annuga;808933]Again, Depp still had quite a few roles during that ordeal so no, he wasn't deprived of his roles.[QUOTE] It's funny that you fail to mention these so roles that he still has. The only role I can find is a voice role for an Italian animated series known as Puffins. You can hide your head in a sand all you want but Depp is blacklisted from Hollywood. Again, this is bad because there is documented recordings and photos of Amber Heard abusing Depp. Meanwhile Amber Heard has yet to lose a single brand deal or movie. You cannot seriously think some obscure Italian voice role is anywhere near same as working for Warner Brothers or Disney. It should be noted that WB still continues to work with Heard and not Johnny. The only people downplaying victims are people like you. You side with Hollywood when they blacklist Johnny Depp in spite of the already mentioned evidence of abuse and his exes defending him against the allegations. But then you act surprised when Hollywood openly congratulates pedophiles like Roman Polanski at the Oscars. |
"You can hide your head in the sand", "You side with hollywood" this is so overly dramatic and accusatory oh my god. If there's anyone overreacting and over-moralising stuff it's you guys who claim to care so much about 'cancel culture'. Calm down.
The thread has gone way off topic. I asked what 'cancel culture' was because so many people here seemed to be so concerned about it, and then I find out it's something that's not even fucking happened to the guy and yet a huge argument has broken out about so much unrelated celebrity drama that frankly I couldn't care less to sift through. Save it for Twitter and try actually talking about the thread topic without accusing other board users of whatever the hell that pedophile comment was about |
Quote:
It seems like projection on your part. Quote:
If you don't like "celebrity drama" then I suggest reading another topic cause that's literally all this thread is about. |
Quote:
But the main thrust of my post was this; we're going on about Polanski, and Depp, and Bogeya and whatever and like... are these Toku actors? Are these the Toku scandals the thread was made to discuss? Or is it a digression that's gone on way too long because uttering the words 'Cancel Culture' caused people to vent all their opinions about whatever Western actors and directors are out there that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Kimura hasn't even been 'cancelled' or 'silenced' or whatever word you want to use, and we are still somehow on this. No, I'm not a mod; I can't literally force you to stop or whatever, but I wasn't doing that -- just as you're allowed to post your own opinions so am I, and my opinion is that this thread is completely off topic and is just talking about a lot of irrelevant rubbish |
Quote:
That's his only TV role, he's still had a couple of movie roles, 5 in 2018 meaning there weren't any reshoots to remove him and one in 2019 and 2020. Not much but hardly blacklisted, especially as a new mainline Pirates of the Carribean in the works and how Depp waited 2 years to fight the claims. I don't recall saying Johnny Depp is getting what he deserved or calling him the one the only one in the wrong and it's odd to accuse me of defending Hollywood while condemning me for criticizing how Polanski has a career, especially as your stance is "Kimura didn't do anything illegal so criticism is bad when there's so much worse". As a victim of heavy abuse myself, I don't take kindly to the idea that I'm downplaying victims because I'm saying Depp's career didn't die and how I think it's important to crack down on discrimination alongside abuse |
Quote:
It's like you hate these people so much you wanna see them fall but cannot legally hurt them, and so when they make mistakes, it's like ordering an assassination without actually killing the target. That's how I see these cancel culture anyways. It's technically as 'effective' as death threats. |
Double post sorry.
I think the best case scenario would be for Kimura to issue a formal apology. From what I've seen from people like Kurona and Kiwami are that they are iffy about Revice is that not only because Kimura doesn't issue an apology yet, but also because Vice's character is obnoxious, it kinda looks like Kimura was not only being smug but also acted like he did nothing wrong, and that could easily rub people the wrong way. I know it can be stupid because the obnoxiousness was supposed to be Vice, not Kimura, but not being able to separate an artist from the work is a common thing to do, so it's normal to see that the character the actors are playing are sort of like an extension of that person. It's basically this, imagine Logan Paul (if you don't know him, oh my god bless you SO MUCH) never apologized for the suicide forest thing and kept acting smug in appearances. People would hate him even more even if him apologizing wouldn't really make things a whole lot better. My point is, apologizing may not absolve your mistakes, but your remorse will help people understand you a bit even if they still hate you, as oppose to not apologize and end up making people hate you even more. |
Only the old ones but the new ones, not that much.
|
I'm sorry but I am inclined to think that cancel culture is just another of these made-up terms to a degree but I do see that even though loads of people on TV I wish had never got famous or had a career, there's not much you can do about it now I suppose.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for your history of abuse, that's awful that happened to you. But I don't need to bring up me or my family's history with it especially to win dumb internet arguments. I don't think you're downplaying victims because you don't believe Depp's career was damaged. Who cares. What is, that you have you to even acknowledge the DOCUMENTED evidence of Depp's physical and emotional abuse at the hands of Amber Heard. I linked to them already in my posts but I have heard zilch on them. Even earlier in this post you said that Johnny " waited 2 years to fight the claims." That sounds a lot like when people scrutinize abuse victims for taking too long to work up the courage to speak about their abuse. If this is not intentional on your part then I think you really, really need to work on how you discuss this. |
Quote:
I feel blacklisting means entire career dying permanently, especially as I doubt this will be for long at all which was my point, people who get 'canceled' bounce back, to be fair I didn't know Depp's role for PotC wasn't guaranteed, so my apologies for that, but again, I doubt this will actually stay, especially after the counter lawsuit. Granted if you ask me, the same will happen to Heard as this is especially common for big Hollywood names. Your stance on this looks like the typical defence of "Well, there's worse stuff out there so this means nothing" so you'll have to forgive me if your stance was actually different despite using the same points. My first comment on that was that not all information was available then as Depp hadn't yet started his counter claims until just last year, meaning there was no reason to heavily doubt Heard's claims, especially as last I checked, 97% percent of abuse allegations are true with only the remaining 3% be false claims, meaning there was no real reason to doubt it. I simply explained why the perception was so different between the two for the longest time and I felt my personal opinions on the matter weren't relevant to the point |
I feel like I'm dredging things up since this thread sorta died, but someone asked about the timeline for the Kimura posts before, and now I beleive that I have the answers
According to Kyoudai Express and the info they gathered, apparently the image of Kimura in black face is from 2018 While the one of him mocking lip plates is from 2020 Not sure exactly what their sources are for this, but at the very least 2018 lines up with when people I've talked to remeber first seeing it show up online And it appears to be true that there has never been any apology or acknowledgment at all, at least not any known one So it seems worth reiterating: This isn't smth someone unearthered that he did a decade ago, it's recent, as well as a recurring trend over time So all in all, I just still fail to see why there's any pushback against the argument of "this guy should not be playing a super hero for kids" If you're going to watch the show that's fine, but why is anyone defending this guy, or trying to argue what he did "isn't that bad"? It just makes no sense to me If you understand that what this guy did was bad but can still watch the show that's totally fine, but if you need to rationalize that his behaviour is somehow okay to justify watching the show, just stop To be honest, if you're trying to rationalize or normalize ANY actor's shitty behaviour to justify to yourself why it's okay to watch a show, please take some time to evaluate if that's a healthy way to be thinking |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
TokuNation News & Rumors |
Figuarts/Seihou GRIDMAN |
SH Figuarts BoonBoomger Red |
Hasbro Licenses Power Rangers Toys to Playmates Toys |
Discotek Media Licenses Mobile Cop Jiban |
What's going on with CSM? |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.
|