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Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 12- "My X My Stage 2013!" Discussion
ANOTHER Sougo has appeared, traveling from another point in time thanks to the power of the Gaim RideWatch. Will this save Geiz or has this created further problems?
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RIP Fruit Jesus
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So far, this is the only time Zi-O could use extra abilities from the Gaim Rider Armor. For this, it's summoning giant lemons.
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It makes sense why they remove Fruit Jesus, seeing as him staying around would raise the question of "Why is he not helping them anymore after this?".
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Not to mention from the looks of it, Fruit Jesus interfering and making it to where two Sougo's were running around clearly did something to the timeline.
Like no subs yet, but clearly the way the episode went was not how everything was supposed to go, and Woz see's that in his book now. We're at the turning point now and using Gaim was a perfect way to initiate it. |
So God Kouta pretty much sacrificed himself in order to take the first steps in derailing the Oma-Zi-O future.
A true hero till the end. |
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You could argue that powerful timelord riders and dimensional god of distribution like Kabuto, deno, and decade are immune, but what about Geiz And Tsukiyomi deciding to Live with Zio in 2018. They can go all the way back to prehistoric time, but they settle on befriending with zio in 2018. The same for Woz and the Time jackers. Time machines are everywhere. I'm not a fan of DBS now, but I liked the time travel explanation in the Trunks arc, which is linear. there's only fuel for one person to travel to a certain time in the past and only one time machine available. Wtf with time travel with no repercussion. It's a bad plot device and premise. I get they don't want to do gokaiger style with riders losing their powers, but retaining their memories. It's nice to have all of them retaining their powers, but then we're getting Megaforce plothole in why the riders didnt show up to help, which could only work with riders that protect people under a city level like W. The .5 net episodes are funny, but also depressing in a way. The mention of time paradoxes are just blandly there. You can blame the actors, but they blame the scripts like the toku alumni vets. |
A decent episode. If anything, it was a fun change of pace from the standard episode format. The dual Sougo's made for some good comedy. Also, the way they did the body double was very convincing this time. Some really good effects. The cinematography was stand-out in this episode too. The split-screen used during the Another Gaim fight was impressive.
Not much for Kouta unfortunately but I liked what we got of him (RIP Fruit Jesus). And they nailed Kaito and it was cool to see him "test" Geiz, which was very in-character. The Gaim references were cool, with the Sakura Hurricane effects used for Geiz's escape, and the Suika Arms Ridewatch was a welcome surprise. The visual gag they did with it appearing large at first only to be tiny (kodama) was absolutely hilarious. Gaim armour is a beast and I love the fighting style. The finisher was absolutely brutal, I was a little shocked that they showed that. Looks like things are taking a turn and next week we get two returning legends in "Ore wa Tenkuji Takeru" Ghost and Decade so I am very excited for that. .5 was legendary as usual. Cast acting out of character, doing weird faux interviews. Seeing Schwarz like that was pretty off-putting lol. |
Loved the episode.
Kami Gaim came across clearer now in how he was motivating and teaching Sougo. The ending on that was interesting too from the delay in being erased. So it does come across as very much a teaching moment to Sougo about having faith in the abilities of others. And now formally the time loop is broken. They've managed to successfully begin to alter the future. Which should set Woz into his own story path potentially that should be interesting as we're nearing the breaking of the Sebastian and Ciel angle. Loved how Tsukuyomi was more contemptuous towards Woz too. Also interesting now how Woz revealed the original timeline at some point had both removed at different times and how this was originally the point Geiz was gone at. Loved that extra emphasis of "letting this one go for someone else's sake" which is very fitting for Gaim BTS-wise. Showing they're still working in BTS stuff when it fits for extra nods. Makes me curious what Tsukuyomi's original fate was, which is likely changed now too since events will unfold differently now that Geiz is still around. Overall, really enjoyed these episodes and all the growth it yielded, as well as the character foreshadowing, including how Tsukuyomi is seeing that Sougo is more than what his future version was. Interesting now at how we're seeing the beginning of the rewritten future too. Giving us that emphasis of time changing like we see in BTTF 2 and 3 with the photo, newspapers, and fax. Especially love the emphasis of how Sougo himself is who broke it. Overall really looking forward to how more develops out. Especially loved the tongue in cheek joke with melon arms. The biggest unwieldly rider suit gear reduced to now one of the smallest, but also in such a cute charming way. Really love how much deep thought is going into the episodes and the character conveyance. It has charm, but also still feels very pertinent to the story it's trying to convey and the growth of each. Sougo is showing some rather interesting hidden intelligence too in how he knows how people act and react. Predicting Woz to a T. And the added interesting reveal of how much more of a threat the time jackers really are with their own abilities and access of rider series skills themselves outside of gear too. Extra interesting in how Woz and them interact, and how that may grow too. And makes it all the more curious how his future storylines are going to progress as he soon becomes the one fighting to maintain the future against their changes potentially. These two episodes really begin setting up a fresh start, but also are the culmination of the build up to now, including how Sougo is getting attached to Geiz and Tsukuyomi, and how that's going to impact the future more now. How much Sougo's loyalty to his friends are what cause him to force himself to alter time itself. That's deep, but not overtly forcefully so in conveyance with how it's subtle played. That's simply what friends do for each other. That's what caring means. But that also means having faith in each other's strength too, but to also give them a way to fight forward and help, but to still let them do it on their own. Really love how much 'other' material they've been working in too. Toei's really got a knack for using that in non-insulting but very pertinent ways, and it is part of Heisei history to the series itself and each's references. Major respect to them for how they've managed to do that in very heartwarming but also respectful ways. |
Hey, everyone, guess what time it is!
https://i.imgur.com/3iP5jP3.jpg Time for me to have a new favorite... wait, no, I used that one last week. I mean, two-parters are basically one big episode anyway, right? At any rate, this episode straight up rules, and as much as I empathize with the people who aren't feeling Zi-O, I think you have to have a heart made out of stone not to enjoy this one at least a little bit. It's just got everything you could ask for. The characters are nicely developed, the direction is freakin' stellar, and to top it all off, we get one of the most laugh-out-loud hilarious episodes of Kamen Rider out there. Just about every aspect of it felt way more inspired than usual to me. There are still aspects worth criticizing, of course. You could probably argue Geiz's character arc is going in circles pretty convincingly. I think Kaito might've been mixing up 強さ and 力, but Urobuchi was the only writer who ever truly "got" Kaito anyway, so I'm not going to hold that against the episode too much. Although considering Kento Shimoyama did a better job than most in Go-Rider, it's actually a bit unfortunate these episodes didn't go to him. Kouta drew the short straw in terms of screen-time, but he did make the scenes he got count well enough. Aside from that though, I can't think of much to complain about. I was a little too busy enjoying the wacky time travel antics to really worry about anything else. The preview for next week has got me extremely excited, given my well documented love of Ghost, and slightly less well documented love of Tsukasa, so I can only hope Zi-O keeps this momentum going, because it really is just getting better and better lately. EDIT: Actually, never mind that point about Kaito. I mean, I still would've liked to see Shimoyama's version of this, but after going back over his scenes, I've concluded I was the one mixing up words. Well, me AND Over-Time, but that's beside the point. Also, I forgot to mention this episode involved a Kamen Rider actually riding a bike in a climactic moment! Apparently I was so satisfied with this episode it didn't even stick out as any cooler than all the other stuff going on. |
Lame. So Geiz's resolve is just to do what he did from the start?
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I will say this was an enjoyable set of episodes. It seems, even in little actions, the timeline has begun to change.
Glad to see God Kouta was able to influence that much just by getting Sougo to realize Geiz should try and escape using his own skills instead of being helped. I also like how Geiz decided to trust Sougo despite being on thin ice with him. He must have realized there was at least a small chance that Sougo was telling the truth and took that gamble head on. Now it's time to wait and see the fallout of that choice. Especially considering Woz is shocked about something concerning Geiz at the end. Also the Kodama Suika Arms was great, a tiny robot buddy. I also got some flashbacks of Decade when the Final Form Ride was used on Den-O. I already like it more than the Taka Watchroid. Though it's clear the Faiz Phone X has the most function out of the three gadgets. |
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But that's what makes it interesting. He's internally fighting against how much Sougo is growing on him. How Sougo has been reaching out to him. Even Sougo going so far as saying "I need you to stop me if I do turn into Oma." Geiz isn't saying it, he's keeping that gruff exterior, but he's warming up to Sougo. He brought the chicken dinner home. He remembered. He has a home to provide for. He has a home to protect and look out for. Winner winner, chicken dinner. xD He's not saying it, and it's part of his growing internal conflict that's reaching resolution, but Geiz is changing, even if it's subtle. Even if the other characters are letting him play it up as he hasn't changed, but he really kind of has. He was tempted, and instead, he came back and formally made himself part of the family though he's saying otherwise in his reasoning. But hey, he still has his pride, and doesn't want to admit it, but he has a place he belongs now that's watching out for him, and needs him to watch out for them. That's what I love about this show. It's true to the personas, and subtle character development. Not overt and arm waving in the air to say "look at me I've changed" but gradual and very human. He might be saying "I'm watching you and will stop you" but his actions are saying, "this is my family now, and I will protect it from all inside and outside threats." And Sougo accepts Geiz for that. Sees what he's saying, but also gets the undertone, that "glad to have you home now." Geiz is so the tsundere of the series. Has a prickly exterior, but you know he's growing fond of them whether he'll admit it or not. That's another thing I really love about this series. The gradual trope inversions. This show for what it is held to itself, has so much amazing that's easily overlooked because of how subtle played it is, but it's that subtlety that makes it so very real and fun. It's more than skin deep, feels refreshing in that regard. This episode especially gave us insight into that with how it peeled back the orange. This is also why Faiz armor is his. He's so Takumi in many ways. Quote:
There's a lot more to Geiz being trapped in Helheim that wasn't directly conveyed(it is still a kid's show!), but how Sougo was attempting to rewrite time that Another Gaim never happened to save Geiz, suggests there was more to it than simply pulling him out of helheim. Because as we saw with the victims getting free at the end, all it took to free Geiz was to defeat another Gaim. But in that path, Geiz wouldn't be the same and would have been ridden with self-doubt in how Sougo saved him and effectively would have become useless with little will left to strive forward. (We get this in the side remarks at Geiz while in Helheim. His "not strong enough to fight fate" and the rest of his literal self-doubts being given voice by an outsider watching him. Stuff that was making his inner narrative manifest outwardly to convey it to the audience.) But instead, saving himself first, he now has renewed will in his own abilities and will continue to fight for and change the future. There's a lot of extra material in those 3 missing days we didn't see, that 3 days later Sougo didn't want present day Sougo to experience either. That Geiz had to save himself first before they could defeat Another Gaim. Which goes back to Sougo's ability to read people and personalities as we've seen repeatedly conveyed. He's a little bit of a manipulator in that way, but the implementation of it is really interesting. He's not manipulating to control or impose his will, but trying to use it in ways to best help all he can and who he can. He's pushing dominoes but doing so in cautious ways to try and make things better. Present day Sougo picked up on this really quick, they were in sync. He knows himself too well of course. Woz notes this himself. That Geiz wasn't part of Oma's rise. That Geiz is inconsequential and useless to Zi-O. But now that's changed as Geiz has conquered his self-doubts because of a little help from his friends believing in him and showing him that they do. |
Since the time line has been altered, I would like to see what happened in the original timeline that made Sougo (if he truly is oma zi-o) go down the other path.
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On the 12.5, Woz's winks are straight up awesome. And giving me life. xD
The .5 episodes are getting even more straight up fun with the references and in jokes. Quote:
Because he implemented it perfectly and even better than intended. I think you're underestimating how much effort and work goes into these things. Every metaphor and bit there is there for a reason. That's half the fun. |
Not Ghost....NOOOOO !
Though...:Tsukasa sooo......HELL YEAH ! "cough" I do not think Ghost is a very good season, but it is not the worst season, I would rather watch Ghost over Wizard mainly due to things actually happening in Ghost, and the fact that I actually like some but not all of the characters. Overall Ghost has issues, Takeru being one of them.... BUT WHO CARES ! THE PASSING THROUGH KAMEN RIDER IS BACK ! For the record Decade is not really a good season either, but god damn do I love the main characters in it. |
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But artistically speaking, Decade and Hibiki really stand out the most to me. Ghost is epic for designs, and later builds. But it does kind of have a bit of a middle 'wandering spirit' vibe. xD Wizard is good in themes and concept as well as inherent tropes it used. Though the toys probably could have used some work. That's an oopsy that's hopefully been corrected. I can't really say any season has been the worst. They've all brought different things to the table for what they were at the time they were made and what they were intended to cover and what their inspiration draws were. Each series really shouldn't be held to each other like that because of how inherently different they are. With Decade in particular, what you have to keep in mind with it is that it's a send up to classic Riders. It's essentially the spirit of original era and how it's part of that and then pulling in the other Rider worlds of heisei. Essentially he and Diend are the new age Shocker riders. But one's that are of tech that surpass anything of Shocker ever before. Once you see it from that angle of a Shocker Slider rider and the story angles from that, the series really begins to find it's place in what it is as the Sliders of the 01 universe. In CW DC terms, he's kind of the Earth X Ray given amnesia and develops in a free world from their influence. And the rest is all discovery that builds to that revelation. |
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Wizard, 90% filler, it really hurts the season that for most people is going to just feel extremely droll to get through, and it is a shame due to the fantastic suits, monster designs and ideas, it does not help that Kamen Rider Mage was built up only to not really be much of anything in the show when she finally got to enter the stage. Decade, I like the concept and overall it works, there was no need to get the actual actors to reprice their roles since it is a dimension jumping season, Tsukasa himself is also a major highlight for me in the show and I too like how it ended. But I do not think that was the intended end, overall most of the things happening in the film where likely supposed to have been the last arc for the series, executives and behind the scenes issues got in the way of the overall run. I would have loved for the last story arc to actually involve the past riders like Kiva and Blade hunting Decade down, instead of being made into a mess via the movie, the fact that the movie came out MONTHS after the show ended really hurt it as well, shit happened here and it is kinda obvious. God damn I love the sound effects for the Decadriver, overall my favorite driver in the series. |
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Decade was a timing issue, but also the complete end reworking. That one could have been so much better, the timing wasn't so much of an issue, as it was lack of really having the time to work out the better story paths. Though I'd argue the usage of Blade should be done a little more sparingly. There are some hanging plot threads from Blade's series that they've ignored a bit too much in that regard, but also need to address. Wizard I have no real complaints about, I mean the entire concept was built around cracker jack rings and other toy emphasis in that regard, and in many ways was meant to kind of be a Kiva 2.0, but took time to find its footing. *Shrug* Varies series to series. I prefer most self-contained to themselves, but even "filler" content usually has deeper meanings in it too in what it covers. Rider series are fun in that regard from an artistic standpoint of the show as art itself. Zi-O I like because it sidesteps a lot of those issues by the innate nature of the storyline, so it's more fun and self-parody to itself in that regard, but also done in a respectful light hearted way. |
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Overall Zi-O has been far better then I first expected it to be, the head writer was my biggest worry. Sougo took a bit of time to warm up but his clear manipulating ways is enjoyable, I would be surprised if he is actually shocked when Woz eventually betrays him, it is happening ! WE ALL KNOW IT ! Considering the massive jump in his combat abilities over the short amount of time he has had his powers as well makes me wonder if he has not had a few time travels on his own in secret to get stronger. |
I didn't care much for Decade (except that awesome theme song), But I do like Tsukasa though. Mostly for the fact that he's a passing through rider that has no f**ks to give.
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And then they can use that as an excuse to blame Sougo for the issues in Hibiki. (Which tbh, it was only a handful of things that needed progressively toning down, and not the massive overhaul it got BTS, but hindsight is 20/20.) I don't think Sougo has been time travel training, though he could be. I think it's more confidence based. Early on he was a very 'bad' rider in training, but didn't know what anything was. As he learned it all though, and got confident in it, we see that transition to quickly even overcoming Geiz, which is interesting as that's also where he really starts displaying his reading people abilities too better. Though we see hints of it early on with the Fourze/Faiz episodes too. But his progressive confidence in what he's learning and how to handle it, and the lessons each episode gives him that he takes to heart as well as using his moral compass seems to really be the main driving factor to how quickly his power level is rising. Which I think is interesting how this episode highlights that for Geiz too. His waivering confidence making him weaker, but restoring that confidence brought him back to being an influencer on the future itself. Part of that seemed accidental on Sougo's part too though, because Geiz really took that OOO's episodes beating hard too. And then the added bit in how the Wizard another Rider was more complicated than Geiz was seeing too, but Sougo noticed it. There's a lot more here in that inter-character dynamic that's really standing out more. How tunnel visioned Geiz and Tsukuyomi have been, and rationalizing that, but Sougo is more open minded, and Tsukuyomi's already learning to see more and think outside herself, but Geiz is the one still with internal conflicts in that way. Makes the progression of the story that much more interesting on what Oma actually is and how. And soon we'll have Decade in the mix and how unhappy Tsukasa is about having his rider throne taken by an upstart. Really looking forward to how this develops out. So much rich material to explore for them. The previous 11 episodes were really the journey to what comes next now with these little turnovers and confidence builders and establishing material. Each piece seems to be building to a bigger whole, but subtle steps forward in doing so. Woz betraying them seems very expected. But also how much of a betrayal is it really? He still serves his overlord. Very interesting character conflict coming up in that I think. His entire job is to retain the future, but he also knows what better future is starting to unfold. It's a very curious thing what his character may go through now. But definitely leads to explaining more on his potential character enhancements later. And I think the resolution to that will be interesting with how Sougo will talk him down, and prove himself a wise overlord. Sentai definitely varies far more than Riders. But most have been really good, if even some off the wall. Can't think of many there that are actively "Unwatchable" over the last 20 years. I was never actively worried about Nin's writer handling Zi-O, he has a passion for Rider series, and is doing marvelously. He's a damn talented writer when the passion is there, and he has some good material from the overlords to work from. Nin's being so aimless wandering wasn't really his fault as the lack of direction was there from the top to begin with. He gets more blame for that than he really should and made the best he could from what he was given to work with. Going into Nin with the devices and Mecha, you can kind of see that one was a straight up screwing around concepts season that was all over the place even at the toy design standpoint. (Though I still love Rodeo Maru!) But at the point we get a cowboy hat ninja ranger, with a poncho, and a cheeseburger morpher. You can kind of tell at that point that the overlords may have overchiefed on the peace pipe themselves. For lack of a better phrase. Spaghetti Western Ninja story was definitely a hard concept to handle for any writer. It essentially a series of emulation. A Japanese writer emulating an Italian writer/director, who is trying to emulate an American genre, with a traditional Japanese twist, and lots of random content thrown at them at the last minute. That one was a recipe for disaster no matter how you look at it. But from what he was given from the Overlords to work with on that one, he managed to do some really fun results where he could. But in all ways, you can kinda feel the "BoA is getting on our nerves too" overtones from even Bandai Japan. Then Kyu you feel the excitement and fun coming back, and how it was so much a soul restorative series. Though there were a lot of fun things to Nin too. Sometimes it's easier to blame one name you know. But the shows are really a diverse effort across the board on all levels. But I expect we'll see some great things from future sentai. The next 5 series I think are going to really keep surprising and building the wow. Same as I expect the next several rider series to really be some great surprises and new spins too. Whatever the hiccup was, seems to have passed, and things are really springing forward in amazing ways. As long as they keep batting away bad and harmful pitches at least. Cause we don't need that BoA mentality infecting Toei and BoJ. Which honestly is probably what even Hibiki's original writer was worried about too early on from what some of the stories were about BTS stuff. |
I was a little disappointed to see Takeru show up in the preview for next week. Apparently I'm still having trouble shaking the whole "ugh, this asshole" reaction (not hyperbole, that was literally what ran through my head). But then we saw the Agito and Hibiki suit, we got Decade's catchphrases, and I'm really excited. I know Decade as a show was kind of a trainwreck, but it's the show that got me into Kamen Rider and I've really been looking forward to seeing how this series handles Tsukasa. I'm sure I'll be disappointed when he shows up for about two minutes to drop fruit out of a window or whatever, but I don't care: this is the cameo I've been waiting for.
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So, this episode was the best we've had yet. The direction and the cinematography were brilliant, and the character stuff was handled decently as well. Of course, Kaito's back on his strength stuff, but even Kouta's handled well imo - before everything with Hellheim went down, he was no-one special, just another drifter without a job or prospects, and that's how the scene at Drupers read to me; without the Golden Fruit to force him to develop as a person, he essentially stayed unmemorable and passive. Especially stark when compared to God Kouta, may he rest in peace. Probably not intentional, but that's how I see it.
Also, next week's preview containing the immortal "Ore Wa Tenkuuji Takeru" brings me great joy. |
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But the time jackers are also prone to turning on anyone on a whim if it suits them. |
Ok, so before talking about the episode.
What the heck happened with this episode's release? I had to wait until yesterday to be able to see it ._. And now the episode : I found the interaction between the two Sougo to be funny and also I found one fact disturbing. Future Sougo seems more mature than Present Sougo, did something happen to Geiz in the "Future"? Woz's "betrayal" isn't really one, it was done so that the flow of time could regain its normal momentum and not be a clusterfuck. So, up until now, from the Book's and Woz's point of view, Geiz had no impact on the future but now that he was saved, Geiz seems to be mentioned in the book, I can't wait to see what his part to play will be. One thing that is bothering me is that Tsundere Geiz is that....a tsundere. I understand his reasons and why he fights himself from being friend with Sougo, but come on, you can feel that's not the way Geiz wants to go. I'm kinda glad Space Jesus is gone, it would have made no sense to have him "still existing" after this adventure. Hearing "Ore wa Tenkuuji Takeru" made me laugh, it's as if Toei was conscious of the meme x) Aaaaand I can't wait to see Tsukasa again. As some of you here, Decade was my first Kamen Rider, and I think that it worked well as an introduction to the Heisei Era. Decade made me interested in Kamen Rider and made me love it. |
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