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Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 47- "The Vanishing Watches 2019!" Discussion
The RideWatches begin to lose their powers, while a mysterious Wall divides Japan. The timelines are breaking down. Tsukuyomi decides the only fix might be back in HER original timeline...
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Y'know when they announced a Time Travel Rider, I was really hoping they'd stay away from the whole "Each Rider's Show is it's own world" thing.
But despite the fact the we've had Riders just show up at the end of another's show, Drive just randomly decided to city hop to Futo. And all kinds of shit that showed that multiple Riders existed on one earth. We're just gonna say that each show is it's own world? Yeah okay, whatever. I really don't like that, like in the slightest. But incase I'm wrong and the subs explain some other shit, will edit this post. |
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They established from the get-go that creating a Ridewatch erases the history of the Rider it represents, except Den-O and Decade. And Kabuto established that as a result of the erasures, the ones that are left were shunted out as soon as their Ridewatches were created. This is simply the result of the watches breaking, resulting in events that should no longer have happened happening now. |
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I really am enjoying all these finale episodes.
I've been watching raw for a while, but I finally have a grasp on Swartz's plan and it's basically the world-destroying that spurred Decade to action in his series. I like it. :D |
this series could have been better,awaiting the anti-climatic end of Decade 2.0...at least the Figuarts won't be expensive as all hell...
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Having now seen the episode subbed, I don't know what they're getting at. They're both alluding to the fact that all 20 heisei Riders are their own shows (With what Schwartz told Sougo about), and that these 19 other Worlds are there because of the Ridewatches.
So I give up, I give up on trying to make sense of it. There's 2 episodes left, AR Worlds Schmar World. |
Eh I try to not think too hard about this tbh, everyone's overthinking this and your really not supposed to. And I feel like that's been why people don't like Zi-O, everyone's expecting a time travel plot to explain everything about the mechanics.
No, just sit back, go along for the ride and have some fun. Not everything needs to have insane logic behind it. Your just hurting yourselves if you keep trying to keep track of everything. Also I don't trust Speed Subs anyway to give us a decent idea of what's going on. Rider Time is good for a sub fix, but it's still kinda iffy to me. It's why I've been mostly silent on these episode things since I've been following the Over-Time releases. |
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In this very episode in fact we got some. "Decade, I thought your rider powers were taken away?" "I put half of them in a watch" what does any of that mean? Like... it's telling me there are reasons and mechanics here, but they're pretty badly put across so the viewer is left confused with a half-explanation. Just let him be Decade like Agito could just be Agito without all the rubbish. Zi-O is at its best when the viewer is able to do as you say and just sit back and watch the show. It's at its worst when it's directly addressing continuity and how things work. ... also, when it's killing the best movie rider. |
I actually really enjoyed this one, things were really moving forward.
It was great seeing Chase again and the fact what he really is shows the time fuckrey at max, so Thanks Zi-O. And yet again we have Shirakura AKA Kamen Rider's Johnathan Tzachor, that each rider series is set in it's own world, despite Drive Saga Chaser and the first two Heisei Generations films saying otherwise. Can we safely say that Grand Zi-O has been the most underwhelming final form in KR history. I mean the next ep shows Zi-O fighting Oma Zi-O in Trinity form. If he beats him with that form, then the whole collecting Ridewatches to match his strength has been a waste of time. |
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But, yes, this is just Shirakura pushing his view of the franchise on everyone's faces, even though it clashes with the last 10 years where he wasn't involved with the tv series. I really hope he pulls a Taikawa and retires from Rider now with the end of the Heisei era, rather than returning for future anniversaries, because it's just becoming more clear that he's detached from the more recent Rider productions and his view doesn't match the franchise. Quote:
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All I got out of this episode was that it was a way to get rid of Grand Zi-O so they can introduce the final form. That's what happens when you have a form that is too overpowered.
I kind of feel that Zi-O or even Decade isn't responsible for creating this miasma of Rider Worlds. They've been doing it since Den-O, and Build really made it super confusing at the end. Although I would agree, this has been much about Decade, and I'm okay with it since Decade on it's own ten years back was utter confusion. For kicks, I went back and watched Decade a few weeks ago, and can still confirm that it is a giant WTH. On the positive spin, I like that Woz and Geiz bromance keeps getting better, and that we got Chaser, one of my favorite sub-riders. And that brings me to the other thought of all of Zi-O. This entire second half has been all about the secondary riders. That's pretty cool considering some of these secondaries have been amazing in their own stories. |
So many retcon and continuity errors is whats known anyway for the people that's confused about multiple alternative and parallel dimension on top of whats seems like paradox time traveling. We have decade Au and main world of each riders separately. I assume its confusing when wizard, gaim, build, so on dealt with their own parallel and alternate universes . Deno kabuto kiva drive dealt with time Travel as well as vcinema to ala taisen. It's just chaos cliffhanging without the movie budget here.
Hearing conflicting reviews about the main summer mvoie being retcon to have taken place as well as its rhe true ending/epilogue? Drive got everyone back from villain to riders except shin and kiriko. Schwartz and ohma zio is just messing around to see who's the final boss. |
Looks like Zi-O is the ultimate mess up for Kamen Riders series yet. This mess is not fitting end for Heisei era riders.
And yes, what's the purpose of Heure and Ora again? How did Schwarts recruit them? And what's Woz? |
Ok so :
The 20 worlds are not incompatible with Z.O's world. After all, they are A.R Worlds just like in Decade. That's my interpretation. Well, I'll admit that Decade was a clusterfuck to "understand" but you had AR riders coexisting with Real riders. ( Wataru and the little Wataru) Collecting the watches erased the Kamen Riders and the " enemies are deleted" is a lie since these enemies thrived in their "corrupted" timeline as illustrated by Chase's behaviour. It was actually nice to see him. It seems his actor hasn't aged at all x) So Kaito pulled a Kaito just as in Decade x) In the end, just take Zi-o as a continuation of Decade. Also, I knew that the Decade watch had that kind of purpose! I knew it! That "power up" arrived too soon and got useless too soon aswell. Anyway, I hope Toei will get rid of Shirakura for the Reiwa period because I can't stand this guy and his way of writing.... |
I like it! The build up for the finale by merging everything makes the danger exciting to watch. I just hope to see a representative monster from each show for the heck of it.
I try not to think too much about the mechanics of the show when I watch it, so while I get why some people complain about continuity errors, I just take them as they are. |
This show is almost over. It was TERRIBLE, just like Ghost/Wizard.Complete clusterf*ck of a show with a boring wooden lead actor. Decade at least had Decade in it....my opinion,because,I have to think critically when they throw out timeline cannon then completely ignore it.This show is just awful,but I am a KR fan till the bitter finale....so on we go to the end
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I'll be waiting up until the very end to see if this is as disappointing as Build's ending.
Because yeah, I loved Build, but that ending where they just went to another Earth and let their own be destroyed was utter shit. I like Zi-O for what it is but I fear that the ending will suck. I hadn't as much expectations as I had for Build ( after Ex-aid) because Build second half was retrospectively just atrocious. Perhaps that's the reason why I'm enjoying the series so far. |
Zi-O for me has certainly been a very... polarised series.
When it has high points it has REALLY good high points - colour me surprised when they made Zi-O and Geiz a fantastic relationship - but there's definitely one too many areas where it suffers. I haven't hated it but it certainly could have benefited from much tighter writing; even when you get past the ridiculous amount of upgrade toys the writers have to sell there's too many issues for me to ignore. That said, like Decade? One of the best aspects of this series is that when it wants to be fun, it's goddamn fun. The OOO, Den-O and Agito episodes stick out to me as some of the best and most memorable in the series because you could tell they were really enjoying some of the stuff they were doing in it, and there's many points where they brilliantly make effective use of legacy elements like Ryuki's Mirror World for Sougo's development; or Kuroto Dan turning out to be an incredible choice for a twisted opposite to OOO. If the series had kept this consistently good and truly knew what it was going for, this could have been amazing. If nothing else I'm coming away from this series with "the Another Riders were cool; that was a stupid good Agito tribute; and omfg they got so many actors back" |
My main takeaway from Zi-O is that it's a really feelgood fun show. It's not meant to be taken too seriously, or contemplated and understood as concretely.
I mean, we know the Riders can travel forward and backward in time. It's just more so the Another Rider stuff that's somewhat incomprehensible. All I know is that the watches have a Rider's powers, which means the Rider and their show are "somewhat" rendered moot, unless the watch is given to their appropriate owner. All the Rider shows are separate worlds, but also not, because of timeline shenanigans. And this whole watch-cracking epidemic is basically causing every event to happen in one timeline, which, if left unchecked, means the world(s) will be destroyed. That's my understanding of current events. And I think I'm pretty happy with that theory. But I digress. Back to reflection.
Legit, look at their Twitters and Instas. They're being so heccin' adorable. Such a lovely family. I wish them nothing but joy in the years to come.
And instead of pulling a Gokaiger and having the main plot be nonexistant for the sake of legacy appearances, or pulling a Decade and having the legacy appearances be someone totally different (e.g. AR Kuuga, AR Kiva) they actually managed to find a good middle ground. The plot and characters have progressed and developed at a good pace, and in the second half, we find some pretty solid closure on many unfinished/unhappy past storylines (looking at you, Blade arc and Hibiki arc).
So much hype. Heisei Generations FOREVER had pretty much every rider show up and partake in an awesome action scene. Over Quartzer had some very unexpected tributes show up.
I'm a bit upset we didn't get to hear the Time Jacker song in-show (there was one performed at a press conference) and potentially (unless they drop it next episode) When The Moon Is Full (a Tsukuyomi-sung song released in that recent Heisei song collection). But at least we got to hear Toki No Ouja, Future Guardian, Black & White, that oh-so-Middle-Eastern Zi-O battle theme, that odd dramatic "dun dun" theme we hear whenever Zi-O does something epic or Woz IWAEs, and some bops from past shows. This show is a pretty decent sendoff to the Heisei era. I mean, I loved it. :D
As others have said, he seems rather disconnected with modern Rider. Which isn't bad, but I'd expect he be a bit open to the concept that these shows aren't ALL connected- just a few (or maybe it's just "Zi-O shenanigans" that explain the mixing of worlds in the crossover films). He's said (IIRC when working on Amazons 2016) that modern rider has "lost its edge" and he overall doesn't seem to favor the newer series. Shirakura also tends to believe that villains being super-active makes Rider more Sentai-esque. Which explains why most shows he's directed (Agito, Ryuki, Kabuto, Faiz, Decade, etc) have the villains take action near the end, and sometimes show up with mysterious motives. I'll admit, it's not my cup of tea, but I guess it's fine. I just don't like villains-outta-nowhere with little to no foreshadowing, which seems to be what he goes for in some cases. |
Shirakura really is the reason Zi-O can't achieve its full potential. Despite that, it's nitbthe worst Heisei series, far from it. I mean the only episodes I hated are Kikai and Kiva arcs.
Regarding the Decade power, he is the only Rider unaffected by Ridewatches stealing his power. It is possible that the Decade Ridewatch is a duplicate for backup purposes, as evidenced by this episode. |
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I still dislike they revive Gentoku and Kasumi...... |
A bit of trivia, Decade's appearance in this episode is actually his 47th tv appearance. So Decade now has the same amount of appearances as regular Riders.
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So, it turns out, even four years on, Chase's death still hits me way too hard.
O-T Subs are out for both the past two episodes, and I gotta say, even if the actual mechanics behind everything are a little confusing (I think I've got it somewhat figured out, but that's my own theory, nothing canon), it doesn't really matter. What matters is, Schwartz wants to fuse the world to destroy them, Decade's gained Zi-O's powers, and things are looking bad. I know we all made jokes about wanting Decade Series 2, but it looks like that's what we've got. Characterwise, everything's great, even if I now want to rewatch the original Another Woz arc remind myself what exactly he was working for the entire time, because he certainly seemed shady. Or maybe that's just how people be in the future. |
Overall enjoyed the last arc so far, I like how this is basically ending like Decade began, with the worlds about to be destroyed as everything tries to exist at once.
Decade is always a treat, same with Kaito. Watching Chase's mind cause him severe pain and agony since he is remembering things that he should not even have experienced in the timeline he was ripped from as well due to it... Why must Chase always suffer ? D: |
If Tsukuyomi and Geiz are from different dimension, meaning are they the ones that actually caused oma zi-o to appear in the first place? Time paradox...
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You know honestly this new revelation in Zi-O just has me thinking on how long Swartz could have possibly been doing this plan.
This plan could have been in the works since 2009 with the original merge. Step 1. Merge the Worlds together to either destroy or create a new world Step 2. Allow more Riders to be born into the merged world Step 3. At the peak remove more than half of the Riders and their enemies from history. Step 4. Allow space time alterations to weaken the world before breaking the things that removed riders and enemies from space and time. Step 5. Everything begins to get squished together in a rapid pace and thus the destruction of the world from either space time events or Tsukasa decides to do it. |
I don't like this show. I think with only 2 episodes left I can safely make that judgment now.
They went up and beyond with the cameos and that's all an anniversary season really needs, so I can't complain in that department. The rest is a brain dead, stupid, boring mess. The characters don’t work, the story is laughably awful, and they spend way too much time tracking back and forward on character development. The amount of times Geiz and Tsukuyomi went form "We kill Sougo" to "We like Sougo" is ridiculous. Beyond a few very well done tributes to past Rider shows there's nothing good to witness here. I feel like this is the kind of show were you can safely recommend the handful of episodes which are actually good and just skip the rest. A very lackluster sendoff to the Heisei era; which in of itself was amazing. Kinda sucks that it ends with a stinker but oh well, at least some of the tributes were fun and lots of recurring actors could shine once more. |
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A good episode, less balanced than the week before but still solid. Honestly, it just felt too busy? It was trying to be a tribute to Drive while also ramping up the endgame stakes and also answering long-standing questions quick-fire style. It didn't quite work out in its favor but props for trying. It feels like this arc could have benefited from one more episode.
I really enjoyed a lot though. For one, Sougo's seriousness set the mood. We don't often see him in that state and it says a lot about what Schwarz did to him emotionally. It was cool to see some old landmarks, from the Skywall to the Futo and Zawame Towers, and the assortment of returning enemy suits was a pleasure to see too. Especially Chase. Now this was a special one. I love the character and I'm glad he is back as Mashin Chaser since I've always loved that suit. The only issue with Chase's role is that there isn't enough time to give him anything substantial and what we got was contrived. Geiz knowing Krim and Gou might clarify the placement of "Over-Quartzer" but the writing is on-the-nose. Cool to see the flashbacks to Drive though and since Chase is having an identity crisis, I hope we get to see Kamen Rider Chaser next episode. Besides that, this whole sideplot was fun even if just to see Geiz and Woz's growing camaraderie. The Sougo and Tsukuyomi stuff was okay. I like that we got solid confirmation of Schwarz's plan (that he wants to destroy all words to prevent the erasure of his - more on this later) and Sougo talking about Tsukuyomi being stronger seems to hint that she may be the key to solving the issue of Sougo's three paths. Tsukasa kept dipping in and out, which was rather odd. However, the Decade stuff in this episode was stand-out. At this point, Diend is kind of a wild-card so it made sense from him to show up last minute with the Zi-O II RideWatch, though I hoped him playing the villain episodes ago would have more of a pay-off. Instead it's just "oh, I didn't want to use my treasure, but... Oh and it has a side-effect too. Whoop-de-doo"; doesn't really stack up. But as far as what we got from Tsukasa, I'm happy. Basically he dies and comes back, and then he has his showdown with Kaito. Turns out he stored half his Rider power into the Decade RideWatch, which is why he was able to still transform despite handing it to Sougo. Also this must mean Decade is OP as heck at full power. And his goddamn theme finally played! This is what I waited all season for. And then he goes and turns into Decade Zi-O form! Where did that come from? I dunno but it was sure badass. Grand Zi-O never measured up to what was promised in his debut before vanishing. And Kaito and Tsukasa are finally reunited. Yay! Looks like a team-up next week as Decade vows to destroy the world, cause lets face it, the state of that world is fucked. The last scene circling around the city overrun by monsters gave me Decade ep 1 vibes. Oh, and Schwarz's plan; What the hell happened? How can there be time-travel if every world is separate from the other? What happened to the shared continuity established by shows like Fourze, Double and Drive? What about Build's finale last year? Someone didn't pay attention and this physically made me wince when I saw it. Oh well. Trying to reconcile Rider continuity is a lost cause at this point. I'll just treat it like a Decade reference and leave it at that. But fuck. |
Hey everyone, guess what time it is!
https://i.imgur.com/H95owry.jpg Time for everyone in the thread to lighten up a little bit. Some of you guys are acting like it's the end of the world! For real though, if 47 episodes in you're still expecting Zi-O to have an easily digestible and consistent portrayal of how time works, I think you've got the wrong show. And if you want a portrayal of a multiverse that makes any sense at all, you've had the wrong franchise since about 2009. Kamen Rider and continuity don't mix! The best you can hope for at this point is that each individual show stays consistent with itself, and Zi-O has mostly done that. You know, with some flubs here and there, but still. Honestly I'm kind of numb to confusing throwaway dialogue after Ex-Aid and Build both tossed this kind of thing out there left and right. What I'm more concerned about here is how all this nonsense serves the story being told. Even though there's plenty of room to question the logic of how it all works, I really loved the callback to Decade's old rules and how Swartz's plan ties into them. It's a very full circle thing to do, especially since from early on Zi-O has embraced its status as something of a do-over for Decade by bringing Tsukasa back in a recurring role. This episode more than any other so far feels like it belonged to him. There's talk of everything from destroying worlds to sea cucumber, and he even brought along some more of his soundtrack. Of course, there's also a ton of other stuff going on, and it's all solid if a little unfocused. Scattered bits like Geiz and Woz paling around again are all great, but if I'm being honest, Swartz's motivations, now that they're revealed, don't excite me all that much? I've been holding off on mentioning it for a few weeks but the show's almost over and I'm still going back and forth on him and the Time Jackers. I definitely appreciate having a straightforward main villain around from the start of a Rider show to the end for the first time since... Wizard? Maybe? Even that feels like a technicality given how prominent Gremlin ended up being. And obviously you could even argue Build on a similar technicality, but my point is I really like that Swartz hasn't had any particular twist to him. He never got upstaged by anyone, Another Decade is more of a monster form than anything, so he's broken the recent trend of stuff like Cronus and Evol where the main villain arbitrarily has to be a Kamen Rider for some reason. That's all really cool. I wish Rider villains still defaulted to being some evil guy who either is a monster or becomes one in time for the final battle. But the lack of a spin on his character is less appreciated when his entire goal and reasoning for it become kind of... pedestrian? I think giving him a more fleshed out backstory would've done wonders to make this all click into place, because while I don't exactly have any problems with the way his scheme is playing out, I can't look at him and do anything but politely nod in detached agreement. Like "yes, these actions will indeed lead to the fulfillment of your objective". He's lacking in underlying emotion. I don't get enough of a sense of hatred, or greed, or love, or whatever else from Swartz to properly invest me in what he's doing. I'm rooting for Sougo, but I'm not truly rooting against Swartz. Right now he seems like exactly what Sougo was back in the first episode. Just some random dude who wants to be king because he does. |
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