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Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zi-O
Hi. My name’s Kamen Rider Die, and this is a thread where I’ll be watching Kamen Rider Zi-O. More importantly, this is a thread where I’ll get to talk about Kamen Rider Zi-O with all of you.
It’s been a couple weeks since the Legend Riders thread wrapped up, and I’ve been champing at the bit to get started on this show. Some threads, that has not been the case! I was wiped after a bunch, and the thought of jumping into another months-long project was… not super appealing. Really dragged my feet on a couple, made excuses to push things back a week or two. With this one? God, I almost jumped the gun and started it a few days early. Some of it is that, unlike the Legend Rider thread, this is all new material for me. I mostly had fun with the Legend Rider stuff (definitely had a new appreciation for some of those films; also rewatched the Ghost/Drive movie), but it’s all movies and shows I’d watched before. There wasn’t anything new I’d learn, or some different concepts to spin around. It was at best a reconsideration, not a revelation. I love starting a new show. I don’t enjoy travel, but these shows? They’re an adventure for me that’s as good as any excursion. It’s a months-long journey through new terrain (not literally, probably: Kamen Rider Quarry), meeting new people and watching them detonate monsters. Every episode could be the best thing I’ve ever seen. How could you not be excited to start a new Kamen Rider show? Beyond that… I’d spent a little time over my break going through old threads and fixing broken image links. (All of my screencaps migrated to a new site.) The task itself is some incredibly slow going. I’d wanted to be done with all dozen or so threads before starting Zi-O, but I only managed four. (Legend, Decade, Kiva, Kabuto.) The reason it’s taking so long, honestly? It’s because I quickly find myself getting sucked into the discussions. Not my writing, but how the process of me watching the show expands outward, drawing in excited fans with clever ideas. The episode posts aren’t ever the final word from me; they’re the start of a discussion. Getting to see that discussion blossom and bear fruit? Magical. That’s the part of the process I’m most anxious to get back to: tearing into a new show, and hearing your thoughts. Literally nothing in this world makes me happier. Not having that in my life for the last few months has probably been a source of stress, without me even realizing it. All of which is to say: Welcome to Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zi-O. I don’t really know much about Zi-O, beyond the obvious. Watches. Anniversary. That’s it? It’s one that I’m… probably not going to approach the way everyone else did. I’m not terribly excited about the anniversary parts, if I can be brutally honest. I’m sure I’ll mark out over my favorite Riders or support characters (fingers crossed for a Cubi/Music Note tribute story), but revisiting old characters isn’t as much of a lure for me as it might’ve been a while ago. The Legend Riders project taught me a lesson on indulging in nostalgia (diminishing returns!), and Decade taught me a lesson on the value of an anniversary show’s recurring cast. I liked the Decade cast, a whole lot. I want that experience again. Not to see all of my favorite heroes come back, puffier but stalwart; but to get to encounter the history of Kamen Rider through new heroes. I already care about Heisei, but I’m excited to care about Kamen Rider Zi-O. Before we get started, though, some bits of business: -PLEASE DON’T DISCUSS ANY ZI-O EPISODES BEYOND WHAT I’VE ALREADY POSTED. If I’m on Episode 12, please don’t tease what happens in Episode 15, or hint at where a character ends up in Episode 30. I enjoy watching these shows with as little early knowledge as possible, and it’d mean the world to me if you could refrain from spoiling/teasing anything upcoming. There’ll be plenty of time later to go over all of those fun reveals, but it’s substantially less fun for me if they get revealed in advance. Special bonus: if you let me live in ignorance, you can laugh a lot harder at my inability to guess where the story’s going, or at my flowery description of a deceptive character’s “noble” motivations. Why deprive yourself of that precious gift? -PLEASE DON’T TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE REIWA SHOWS. I’m going to get to them! Slower than I’d’ve thought, but eventually! (Honestly thought I’d be caught up by the time Revice was over, but, nope! Probably won’t even get to Revice until 2023.) If we can hold off on discussing Zero-One, Saber, or Revice until those threads make their way to the boards, you’d be doing me a huge favor. -EVERY OTHER HEISEI RIDER SHOW IS FAIR GAME. It’s an anniversary season! It would be super weird to have, like, Ryuki show up, and then dance around what happened at the end of Kamen Rider Ryuki. Expect, probably, a rude amount of Heisei spoilers, often with no warning. If you are trying to stay spoiler-free on, like, Ex-Aid? I will see you this summer for "Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zero-One", and I hope you have a fun non-Zi-O spring. -I AM SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR *GESTURES AT EVERYTHING I’VE EVER WRITTEN*. It’s weird! I am very weird about Kamen Rider! I care about it in weird ways! I forget to mention new costumes! I will spend a lot of time talking about themes in the series that maybe no one actually put in there! Many sentences in a row will end in exclamation marks! It’s… I just want you to know what you’re in for. It doesn’t get more coherent than this. If you’re already exhausted reading this, I don’t know if you’re going to love this experience. -YOU ARE MY POWER-UP. Like I said above, an episode post is… it’s like the first draft of my thoughts. (Sometimes literally! I don’t edit these posts a ton!) It’s my initial thoughts on an episode. It’s a gut reaction. It becomes something better by all of you interacting with it: sharing your views, pushing back on my analysis, adding jokes, asking questions. All of that post-episode discussion is why I’ve done over a dozen of these threads, and why I’m looking forward so much to this one. You don’t have to participate in the discussion, but choosing to share your perspective will always enhance mine. I’m excited to hear what you all have to say! -WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS ON THE INTERNET. I almost don’t need to say this, since TokuNation has the best fans of anything, anywhere, but: Please be kind to one another, even if you disagree. We’re all here because we love Kamen Rider shows, and that commonality should be in the front of your mind as you interact with each other. Even if someone dislikes a show you love, or champions a character you despise, we’re all Kamen Rider fans who enjoy Kamen Rider shows. Please keep things civil and polite, no matter what. I think that’s it! I think we’re ready to go! New episode posts should go up five or six times each week until we’re done. (I’m also watching that new Sentai show – Avataro Sentai Inoueforever – and I’m not sure if that’ll be on my night off from Zi-O, or take its place for a night. We’ll see what I can handle!) We’ll be doing movies and specials as they released chronologically, as well as the .5 episodes. Stop the countdown! Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zi-O starts now! https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio0.png |
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 1 - “KINGDOM: 2068”
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio1a.png It was destiny, probably. Or fate. I wrote a huge thing about how I love the starts of series, how terrific it is to invest in a new Rider and their cast… and then I got this episode. God, basically a complete misfire for me? It starts and stops with Sougo, who I completely don’t get. We’re introduced to him as the future Oma Zi-O, a cruel despot who – say what you will about his genocidal bonafides – at least understands that anniversary Kamen Rider seasons deserve to start with a massive battle at Kamen Rider Quarry. (Our first Legend appearance!) It’s a strong sequence, laying out the stakes for our title character: his destiny is to be a tyrant. That’s a fun story to tell, hypothetically. Plenty of Rider shows have explicitly or implicitly dealt with Power Creep as a pathway to villainy, or how the accrual of power for altruistic reasons can curdle into megalomania. A series about how to avoid becoming a monster while fighting for justice with a monstrous power… that’s just a Kamen Rider series? That’s the template of Kamen Rider. As an anniversary theme, it’s a solid one. But Sougo… I can’t get a handle on him, as a character? Not even as a protagonist or a hero or a lead, but as a character. He wants to be a king, but like, as a career? That’s ludicrous. I’ve seen plenty of ridiculous motivations in Kamen Rider (and I love Tsurugi, who is a preposterous bundle of Bizarre Achievements in an ascot), but this is beyond the pale. You cannot study to become a king. You can’t fill out an application to be a monarch. There isn’t a good school to major in the regency arts. It’s the sort of stupid, stupid motivation that I normally adore, because the thought process behind it is usually so specific and bonkers that I am enthralled. Tsurugi’s quest to be the Best At Besting is drawn from his traumas, his desires, his isolation, his responsibilities, his etc. But Sougo wants to be a king… because it seemed like a good idea? As a defining trait goes, it’s terrible. It’s an absence of definition for his character. It’s generic: I Want This instead of I Want This Because. There’s room in the episode for it to be purposefully generic, certainly. The overriding feeling of the episode is that of inevitability, that Sougo couldn't ever become anything other than the King Of Time(pieces), and that outcome has trickled backward to his present. But it’s never portrayed as a burning drive, or a path he can’t veer away from. It’s portrayed as perfunctory; a concept as necessary for reflection and analysis as blinking. Becoming king – something utterly ridiculous – is treated as an autonomic process. It is a crucial mistake in the introduction of Sougo, and it’s, sadly, only the first crucial mistake this episode makes. The second one is in the way this episode never really pushes back on Sougo’s motivation? His friends and family (an uncle, since it’s Heisei Phase 2 and All Dads Are Dead) shrug it off as some quirk, like Takumi’s dislike of hot foods in Faiz, rather than an absolutely terrifying life choice for a teenager to be making. When someone says that they don’t want to take college entrance exams because they’re going to be a king, that’s bad! That isn’t a life choice! That is them throwing their life away! You don’t follow up that declaration with a cute anecdote about not letting chances pass you by! You follow that up with an intervention! It only gets worse once Tsukuyomi shows up. Which is not because of Tsukuyomi! She’s one of only two characters in this episode I felt invested in! (Her and Gates, that's it. Give them the show!) She’s great. I love the heroism of her mission; the belief that even the worst of us have a moment where we could’ve been good. Her coming back in time to show Sougo that his dream of becoming a king is really a nightmare for the world, in the hopes of dissuading him before it’s too late, that’s awesome. That’s a Kamen Rider hero. That empathy. (Also, her getting him thrown in a river as a test is some great chaotic energy.) But then Sougo again lets me down, responding to her story of genocide and heartbreak with a Cool About Me Being King But I Guess It Sucks For You. It is, even more than the rest of this episode, an insane story choice. It made me unbelievably mad to have the title character blow off his own potential for apocalyptic destruction, while delighting in his dream coming true. It’s… why?! Why would you make your brand-new character this unrelatable? And unlikable? Why have him not show an ounce of sympathy for Tsukuyomi’s hardship, and then still have him get praised for stopping a fight? Why have him not care about being a warlord, and then give him an ending where he rushes in to save an innocent stranger? And it all comes to a frustratingly plotted finale, where Sougo heroically vows to be a Good Tyrant. You– you cannot be a good tyrant, my dude. Good Tyranny is an oxymoron. It’s a colossally stupid thing to say, and the fact that this episode views it as a) something that doesn’t require explanation, and b) a thing a hero says? That makes me enormously worried about this series. Enormously. I can sort of see the edges of where this episode thought it was landing. The mixture of destiny and foreboding in Woz’s appearance helped to frame Sougo’s actions as Maybe Not A Good Thing, but everything in the performance of Sougo undercuts that ambivalence. There’s a massive tonal dissonance throughout the episode, between the things we’re being told, and how the characters respond to them. It’s way more than just How Is This Sweet Dope Going To Become The Personification Of Armageddon, it’s Why Doesn’t This Guy Care About Becoming The Personification Of Armageddon. Sougo’s distracted nature and utter lack of drive makes the events of the episode disjointed and unbelievable; huge stakes are blown away in the face of amiable disinterest. Instead of excited acceptance or terrified rejection, we get this uncompelling middle ground of a lead character, who is vaguely okay with becoming a dictator, then decides to be a Nice Dictator, and the show just doesn’t question it. It’s terrible. Tsukuyomi makes sense, as a character who believes that even devils can become angels if you get to them early. Geiz makes sense, as a character who wants to snuff out evil before it becomes a wildfire. Woz even makes sense, as the kind of historian who loses scale and human cost in favor of Narrative and Myth. But Sougo’s our lead, and I can’t understand him at all. https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio1b.png — KAMEN RIDER ZI-O COMPLEMENTATION PROJECT EPISODE 1.5 - “WHAT’S IN THE NAME?” Oh, it’s cute. It’s a cute little bit. It’s like a Net Movie, where the actors are in-costume but only vaguely in-character. This one’s about the three main heroes’ names, and what they mean. It’s not really my thing (it’s a ton of Japanese wordplay), but it’s a cute presentation. Having Geiz get thrown off by Sougo’s "ad libbing", or Woz being all offended at his co-stars' rude follow-up questions? That’s neat. THAT SAID! I completely don’t understand how you have two characters in a story about where their names come from that are named “Woz” and “Gates” and you don’t even mention the founders of Apple Computers. Like, what is the point of this episode if you’re going to be like Oh Gates Are A Thing That Kings Have (?), like that’s even close to being relevant information. Own the dumb background work of your writing staff, you big babies! https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/ziocp1a.png |
The way I see it, Sougo's going to either grow on you, or not. That's how it happened for me because I remember having a very "..." reaction to the first like set of episodes. So I'm not surprised to see you didn't really find yourself finding the start amazing.
Sougo has a lot of little quirks and intricacies that work. And maybe it's because I just got off of Go! Princess Precure where our lead Heroine's dream is to become a Princess. But over the years, where as I was a bit "eh" at first about Sougo's whole kingly declarations, I've grown to embrace that aspect. Oma Zi-O though, man is he an interesting can of worms that I'll talk about way later on but he's real cool. Anyway, time for my gimmick. You see there was this youtuber who redid the preview clips for the Next Episode bits but did BGM swaps for the preview music. Sometimes doing multiple versions for a singular episode due to varying reasons. So let's start with... Zero's Legend Episode Previews Corner - EP 2 Preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o9LupyqjCM |
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They just needed to either ground his aspirations in something relatable (or make it actually seem like an "aspiration", rather than his Safety Pick), or have someone in the show treat his intentions as more than just Oh You. Instead, it feels like the show has a gaping hole where it's core elements - Theme, Motivation, Goal - should be. I imagine it's something the show will come to in time (!!!), but it really needed to be in the premiere. Like, more than anything else. |
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And I think that's a thing I like about Sougo. He's so adamant at wanting to be a Benevolent Demon King(tm), and as the show goes on, that persistence turns from an oblivious idea to something of earnest-ness (is that a word?) Also on a slight tangent, I think Sougo should honestly show up more often in crossovers Decade style. He has the potential for it, and having him show up once in a while and sometimes comment on where he's at at life and how close he is to his dream would be very neat. C'mon, look at this cute face. A face like that couldn't destroy an entire rebellion would it not? https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RxCp_kQxg...06777088_n.jpg |
Well, it’s Rider Time, and we can get this feature going with this…
Ridewatch Playlist: Love and Peace Mix. If the title doesn’t give you any indication, we’re starting off by collating the Ridewatches for Build. https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZoyEkxFUrq0 “Best Match! Transforming with Fullbottles, the genius Rider is… Build” And the song for him will be his theme song, Be The One, by Beverly. https://youtube.com/watch?v=tH7NWi7mLOk “Power overflowing with Pandora’s power. Build RabbiTank Sparkling” And since that was the only time it did anything noteworthy, the matched song is Kamen Rider Heisei Generations FINAL Special Medley. https://youtube.com/watch?v=4TMRR66g_AM “Super speed, super jump, Build RabbitRabbit Form” “Super armour, super weight, Build TankTank Form” “Oh no! The pitch black, out-of-control warrior, Build RabbiTank Hazard” For these three, I’m going with Ready Go!, by a load of artists that would be a nightmare for me to list. https://youtube.com/watch?v=bHVcWNRgJ4M “Totally amazing! The bottle wearing super genius Rider is Build Genius Form” And his song is Build Up, by the Kamen Rider Girls. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kMdXDTF_mfM “Golden rabbit, silver dragon, Build RabbitDragon” And for lack of a better choice, I’m going with Everlasting Sky, from the Build movie. https://youtube.com/watch?v=_-uYy4lX6Kg And now, for the supporting players. https://youtube.com/watch?v=KOCW14R9pIw “Fighting with the power of the Dragon, Build’s partner, the burning hot-blooded Rider is Cross-Z” For him, I went with Cross, the theme for his V-Cinema. https://youtube.com/watch?v=uRSVDd22rlE “The Robot Jelly Rider with a burning soul is… Grease” And like Cross-Z, I went with his V-Cinema theme, Perfect Triumph. https://youtube.com/watch?v=pI2raO2d...jxKGrOCdSglk_v “Danger. The Crocodile Rider is Rogue” And with him, I just went with the one song left on the soundtrack, Law of the Victory by Rider Chips feat. Ricky. https://youtube.com/watch?v=62jYb7jOPBw https://youtube.com/watch?v=hOMndLj-ktA “Using the Sclashjelly to transform, Crozz-Z Charge” https://youtube.com/watch?v=BkFa478RTKI “Power is overflowing, my soul is burning, the burning Rider is Cross-Z Magma” For this, I went with his TV theme, Burning My Soul https://youtube.com/watch?v=r3fq7cEJ41I https://youtube.com/watch?v=a7j7wFD-k2c “The frozen passion. Freezing and crushing with zero-degree flames, Grease Blizzard” https://youtube.com/watch?v=0Btn0raq8wc “The invader from Mars targeting Earth, the evil Rider is Evol” https://youtube.com/watch?v=CbgPCQrj6h4 “The strongest Evol unleashing his power, Evol Black Hole” The song for those last two is Evolution, aka, the one where the true meaning of the name “Evol” comes from. https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZboeU_mPfPU https://youtube.com/watch?v=ANSKxlVZBjI “Thirsting for vengeance, the bat Rider is Mad Rogue” And because I haven’t padded this out enough, here’s the part where I share what Bandai did plan to make and would’ve made if fans had voted for one of them. (Though Cross-Z Charge was still one of the 10 winners) Kamen Rider Build (GorillaMond Form) Kamen Rider Build (HawkGatling Form) Kamen Rider Build (NinninComic Form) Kamen Rider Build (RocketPanda Form) Kamen Rider Build (LionCleaner Form) Kamen Rider Build (FireHedgehog Form) Kamen Rider Build (KeyDragon Form) Kamen Rider Build (KaizokuRessya Form) Kamen Rider Build (OctopusLight Form) Kamen Rider Build (PhoenixRobo Form) Kamen Rider Build (SmaphoWolf Form) Kamen Rider Build (RoseCopter Form) Kamen Rider Build (ToraUFO Form) Kamen Rider Build (KujiraJet Form) Kamen Rider Build (KirinCyclone Form) Kamen Rider Evol (Rabbit Form) Kamen Rider Evol (Dragon Form) Kamen Rider Blood As for the actual episode, I pretty much didn’t have an issue with Sougo. I was new to this whole “Masked Rider” thing and my only point of reference was a few Gaim and Drive movies, and neither of them came off as well adjusted (though to be fair, would you be well adjusted if alien plants were wrecking the ecosystem, or robots were going around messing with gravity). I knew about Build purely because Kissasian had updated his episodes along with Lupinranger Vs Patranger, and I could tell that the bulky monster was definitely Build themed (Even if, as I said in the Decade thread, I had no idea why he was saying “Best Match” until the next episode). |
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It's... the problem for me is that I can see a way Sougo makes sense if he's going to be a king to fix something. Whether that's a newly-introduced Darkest Timeline, or a general dissatisfaction with the present day, I'm good either way. I just need to feel like his motivation as a character comes from someplace inside of him, rather than just being words he says at random intervals. |
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And thanks for all of that RideWatch info! |
Alright it's my turn to do a thing. It might not be a successful thing, seeing what I have to work with, but I'll try anyway.
So here's the things with these shows and me. The music is great, but there's something about hearing music in a language I don't understand where I don't quite get it. Even if the lyrics are translated, somehow my mind can't put them together with the music I am hearing? Like I can read the translation a million times and still hear the song and have no clue what it's saying. So for Zi-O, I'm going to be looking at the theme songs of the featured shows and try to find a good (or at least decent) English version of it. And hoo boy is that going to be hard to do for some them. I may have to either settled for not entirely terrible for some or leave them out altogether. Fortunately, that is not a choice I need to make with Build. It is one of only two Kamen Rider theme songs I am aware of to have an official English version. In this case, sung by the original artist Beverly, who happens to be fluent in English. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G87WJDpNC8Y Wish me luck on the rest of them, because I am going to need it! (I have found a couple of amazing English covers though) |
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(And, boy, I love that English language version of BE THE ONE! I remember it cropping up a while back, and listening to it on a repeat for a medium amount of minutes. Good pick!) |
I remember coming into Zi-O's first episode still on the high from the Build final. That crushed me, but hey, new year, new show, a chance to start over (and also hey Mr Build and Mr Cross-Z seem to be in the previews that's wild). And what I got... is fine. You can't hope to match 49 episodes of build up and character attachment, and Sougo's introduction here... he's alright. He's not any sense of a real grounded character, but I don't particularly mind. After a while, like others have said, he grew on me with his strange, otherworldly charm and complete blasness to everything. I suppose it does take a certain kind of person to become a Demon King, and perhaps it's not hatred, but just sheer obliviousness to the consequences.
But who cares about him because Woz is there and that's sick. Also I feel like I need a bit. I'll work on that and get back to you. |
I know like two things about Sougo, one is a slight character revelation that comes later and the other is that he wants to be a king. Weird stuff overall. Anyway I'mma try to watch the first episode today!
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It was nice to see Sento and Banjou, even if they don't really do anything other than help establish the show's premise. (I mean, there's a really good chance that they're also in this story to help color in the Sougo/Geiz "partnership", which is starting almost as adversarially as Kamen Rider Build's duo.) They barely get a couple words out about Sougo's RideWatch before Tsukuyomi blasts them -- with the Faiz Gun -- and splits with Sougo. It's, as Legend appearances go, not entirely a bait-and-switch. Quote:
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I hope you dig the episode! |
I'm rewatching alongside the thread! My inital feelings on Zi-O on my first watch are......complicated. I really couldn't place how I felt about the show at the end of my first watch. Hopefully rewatching and discussing the show alongside everyone will help me figure things out!
I can confirm at least one thing.......This first episode is kinda weak, for me? First eps of KR usually do two things: either get me invested in our main's journey, and/or get me interested in the world/mysteries the show is setting up. And Zi-O......kinda underpreforms on that? Sougo seems like an average, albeit a little weird, kid. The problem is, I feel like we barely get *anything* about him in this ep about him other than "I want to be a king!". So it's hard to get invested in the first step of his journey, or even have a shred of belief when he declares he's going to become the most beloved overlord. Like I'm kinda baffled we spend more or less the entire episode with him and my feelings about him are more or less "He is a character that exists!" and that's it? Like others are saying in the thread, Sougo is very much an Acquired Taste™ when it comes to Rider protags, from what I've seen people either adore the guy or just feel massively indifferent about him. I forget what my final stance on the guy was, but it was somewhat positive? Hopefully the later episodes can kickstart my memory on the more likable aspects of him. Anyway, I at least remember being interested in our 3 other main characters. Woz's being the man of mystery overseeing Sougo's growth, Geiz's bloodthirsty chase after Sougo, Tsukuyomi trying to take the more rational approach in stopping the overlord's rise to power, Oma-Zio showing off his powers on some poor resistance group...they were all very good starting points for their characters for me. Quote:
Anyway don't have a fun gimmick to add to the thread, just excited to hear other people's thoughts on the show. I've read a lot of your reaction threads, but this is my first time being able to particpate from the start. |
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All them other kids are real good, though. Them, I believe. |
As the guy with a an avatar that has ZI-O be a major part of it .... even I admit this wasn't exactly the most compelling way to start the series lol. Yeah I'm just going to echo everyone else sentiments that Sougo is going to take some time for you to get handle on. And I even disliked the dude when the show first started. But then I grew to enjoy the character as time passed on.
My only other complaint for this episode is that this is supposed to also be part 1 of the Build tribute but to be totally honest you could've replaced with any other Legend Rider like Kuuga or Ex-Aid and scene wouldn't have changed all that much. I wished the first episode was like Decade entirely focused on just the title character. Sure Wataru was there but that wasn't part of the Kiva tribute. This is so it feels unsatisying that Sento and Banjo are just thrown in for one quick scene |
I still can't believe minor gag character Taro Satou got so popular he's back, in Legend Rider form.
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I will be sure to shout out the moment Sougo Gets Good, so we can all bookmark it for later fans. Quote:
Narratively, it's valuable for establishing the scope and structure of this season. We need to, in the first episode, see that this is going to be an anniversary season with legitimate guest stars, and that means The Guys From Build. It also helps to have Sougo travel back in time, just a little bit, so that we know that he'll be visiting actual places, not just CG Dinosaur Times. Thematically, like I said before, I think it's purposeful to have the previous Rough Start partnership in here, to contrast with Geiz, uh, trying to murder the show's title character. I'd hoped that the Zi-O episodes would draw parts from the shows they're honoring, and Two Guys Who Want To Kill Each Other But Then Become Friends is the thing you want to get out of Build. |
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Speaking of Decade, this is also an anniversary season. I think it's an interesting contrast: If Decade was more of a tribute to the themes of Heisei Rider, then Zi-O should make their tributes featuring the characters of Heisei Rider. It's a good way to make Zi-O distinct with their tributes, but its also a double-edged sword in my opinion? There is something that I've seen everyone agree about Zi-O's anniversary content: the monster designs *rock*. I really love the Bulid one, excited to see the others again! |
Actually there's one thing I don't think was mentioned?
How does everyone feel about our OP for this season? Over Quartzer. I personally enjoy it and there are certain shots I absolutely adore, like everyone in the "Mid-Rider Kick Dimension" where they're just looking and poking at things. Or how we see Zi-O and Geiz kick past all the other Riders who immediately proceed to kick all at once after they do. And then out of the flames of that you see Zi-O riding his bike. Real good stuff honestly! I never really got a chance to appreciate the visuals due to all the text on screen but thankfully that All Heisei Rider Clean OP that Toei officially put up allowed me to take in the really cool shots since those had no credits. |
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Although, now that I think about it, I do wish they had focused on some things a bit more, or earlier. Like, why is Sougo so sure he wants to be a king in the first place? |
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So, I have a number of issues with Zi-O that I'll be addressing in the coming days and weeks but so far you have managed to absolutely nail one of the big ones right on the head. I'm very much of the same opinion as you here: Sougo's whole king obsession is the bad kind of ridiculous. His basic misunderstanding of how a monarchy works and treating it like any other job that one can apply for makes him come across as a moron. The fact that he ignores any and all legitimate criticism of his plan just makes it worse. I don't need every hero to be super cool and confident, but I feel like Sougo probably shouldn't be trusted to use scissors without supervision and that is a bad look for our protagonist. I think we'll get to what is probably my most persistent complaint about Zi-O with the next episode, I think (longtime Tokunation readers may guess what it is), but I'll also throw this bucket of water on the premiere: the first episode's pacing is nuts. I've always felt that this episode has about two episodes' worth of plot crammed into it. That sounds like it shouldn't work and it doesn't. I know it was probably easier and cheaper to throw Sento and Banjou into the first arc since they and the Build sets were still available, but saving them until episode two or three would have really helped give the new characters and concepts a chance to breathe before the tributes start. Quote:
Fuck me, Zi-O has existed for three years; how am I just realizing this now? |
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Hey, you're watching Zi-O! This is a show that's 'special' to me in various ways. As it happens, I actually do mostly recall all my initial impressions from watching every episode as it aired back in 2018 up to 2019. Probably helps that most episodes fall into such neat groupings. Not to say that I'll certainly have anything or will say something about every single episode, but I hope you don't mind me just taking your thread as an excuse to talk about my own experiences beyond acknowledging your own comments.
This first episode, well it's a lot of nonsense, huh? A lot of it is stuff I think I just sat through bewildered, but it's the beginning and the end that really stuck with me. That beginning with Oma Zi-O displaying his terrible power before hardcutting to the dopey teenager watching him makes for a strong first impression. And at the end, when Geiz asks Sougo why he is doing this, and we see the image of Oma Zi-O giving the same answer before it fades to the present Zi-O in his place? That's a really cool moment, and I was excited to see where things would go. Everything in-between is kinda whatever though. Sougo's general personality and reactions to everything is like, bizarre and not necessarily in a good way, and I just held out hope some of his 'quirks' would make sense in hindsight. There is a way to make his declaration to be a benevolent overlord a good one, but if there is, this episode isn't there yet. Oh, and the brief bit about time-travelling with time-travelling to the Build show makes no sense for so many reasons but it's hard to care if it's all to facilitate an equally brief cameo anyway. I think like you, for me personally, cameo from characters of older series really don't do anything for me especially in this show, but I especially didn't get much out of seeing Sento and Banjou considering their show ended just the previous week. But all in all, despite all that, I think just the premise and the teasing of what's to come about this story of a future overlord, and his supporting cast who all think that future is inevitable, made me interested in seeing the next episode. |
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my favorite part is the end scene where ZI-O and Geiz deflect some random lasers before clashing with one another. Geiz absolutely not looking where he's shooting is badass. |
Speaking of Over Quartzer does any remember the unused original TM Revolution version of this song?
In this early trailer the OP sounds alot different from the finished product and that because this song was originally sung by TM Revolution and Shuta Sueyoshi. Before TM was replaced by ISSA, TM Revolution would then go on to sing next year Rider show Zero-One op "RealXEyez". Now no official explanation has ever been given but the simplest theory for why the last minute change happened is a simple case of wanting to cram as many Heisei references as possible for ZI-O. See Shuta Sueyoshi is part of the band AAA who peformed "Climax Jump" Den-O OP and ISSA sung Justiφ's Faiz OP. And they simply compensated TM Revolution by letting him do Zero-One OP. Unfortunatly this version of "Over Quartzer" is still unreleased to this day despite upcoming 50th anniversary CD set which actually contain several unreleased songs throughout the franchise. |
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With Sougo... I mean, he's the most unique of all the Heisei Riders, because I'm an episode in and I'm about zero percent invested in him. Quote:
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I still don't know what "Over-Quartzer" means but while "Journey Through the Decade" was this very dramatic and almost melancholic ballad like Opening, Zi-O's is more jazzy, fun, and twisty which I think works pretty well.
Sougo's a nice kid who wants to be king. That's...pretty much it! Toei wasted no time using their classic Edo sets. It's almost as much a staple as the Kamen Rider Quarry. Where as Decade's design was kind of garish but in a way taht surprisingly worked and stood out, Zi-O's design is clinical, basic, yet it's functional nature serves to make the design still "pop" in my opinion. I like everything about Tsukuyomi's whole look. That long dark hair, the white dress and black leggings, the boots, etc. It's a very eye-catching look that honestly wouldn't look out of place in an anime. Also from the get-go you have an interesting character conflict where we start out seeing her father (?) seemingly murdered by Ohma Zi-O but she still goes out of her way to save his younger self and give him a chance even when it seems like she's wasting her time. Which contrasts with Geiz who just wants to go full "time travel murder." If I had a nickel for every time a 2nd Rider was introduced trying to kill the Main Rider...I mean, honestly I'd have a lot of nickels. I did find it kind of interesting that Zi-O didn't just get all the Main Riders, it was initially split between Geiz having some and Zi-O having some as well (although of course Zi-O got the most). I kind of wonder if making Geiz' gimmick being just 2nd Rider based could have worked. Just like with Decade, the prior Rider has a role to play in the premier of an anniversary show, although it's actually Sento and not just some weird cosmic version of Wataru. Granted there's also some wibbly wobbly timey-wimey elements at play that kind of make Sento and Banjo's involvement a little...interesting, but it's still nice to see them. I always thought the Another Riders were kind of a genius convention for this show because it kind of sums up the Heisei era of Kamen Rider and the entire concept of Kamen Rider by basically taking the Riders and turning them into Kaijin, fulfilling the need for Kamen Riders to fight Kaijin while also echoing the Rider vs Rider element that became a thing with the Heisei era. And, y'know, Riders are more often than not interconnected with their Kaijin so to just straight up make them Kaijin is perfect. They also come about it in creative ways where Another Build retains Build's Fullbottle gimmick but in a way that makes sense for the user rather than just a copy and paste. And if I remember right, did they not get the monster designer from the respective Rider shows to do the Another Rider designs? |
I have watched the first episode! As a person who hasn't watched enough kamen rider I can say it was... okay. Die is right Sougo is a really weird protagonist as is his want to be king. We don't really get much in the way of depth here and I feel that's really really necessary when you're introducing a character who goes onto to be an evil tyrant. As of this moment it feels like Sougo puts his personal satisfaction over that of others, and like his call to action towards the end wasn't particularly interesting or satisfying.
I just don't get it, why does Sougo want to be a king what does he get out of it? What is a "King" in his mind? does he have an idea of what a king is? There are a lot of questions her about motivation tbh. Geiz on the other hand is decently compelling, he's very classic rider in a sense taking up an unbearable burden (killing what amounts to an innocent man to save the future) so that no one else has to to suffer or carry that weight. Also he uses a ghost power up, and that's cool! Tsukuyomi is also neat and is a clear opposite to Geiz. As Die noted earlier she wants to save Sougo from himself. Woz is just generally neat and I enjoy his character and outfit (hoods are cool). I haven't watched build, so I didn't feel much seeing Sento and Banjou, but they're interesting enough to establish some things and that time travel has effects on the time line, since I assume Sougo doesn't know anything about the skywall. So overall it was passable. I just feel like I know nothing about Sougo and that's not good when he's the main character, and even worse when Kamen Rider is usually so good at setting up who main characters are and why they fight in first episodes. |
Not a big Zi-O fan myself. Dropped watching it in the early 20s, and what I saw from people who kept going didn't really make me regret my choice. The one good thing I'll say though is that I had a bigger crush on Woz then I've ever had before or since on any other fictional character. His actor does an incredible job with the character, and I was mainly watching it for him. I also have weird taste in fictional men though, so your mileage may vary
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It sort of had to be more simplistic than Decade's suit, since the Legend gimmick is so different. Decade switched out entirely for the old suits, whereas Zi-O is always Plus Legend. There needs to be a simple suit underneath the Plus Legend, in order to keep the whole thing legible. And I really like the gimmick of the suit designs! A friend of mine rolled his eyes when I explained it, but I love the watchband that runs down from the helmet... and the helmet is a watchface. (The tiny "kamen" on the watchface and the great big "RIDER", I'm sort of split on. In another language? It looks cool. If it were in English? I'd probably hate it.) Also, I appreciate Zi-O smartly repping the magenta! It's an anniversary tradition! Quote:
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It's... I feel like this episode was intentional in not explaining Sougo's worldview, because every conceivable explanation is really unsettling. Quote:
Like, this is just proving Geiz right? That they should kill Sougo immediately? And Tsukuyomi was 100% wrong in thinking she could prevent the worst possible outcome? A+ hero stuff for Kamen Rider Zi-O! Quote:
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But Geiz! Geiz, with his dedicated aggression and brooding demeanor! He's like like a time-traveling Ren from Ryuki, and that's nothing to sneeze at! Don't sleep on Geiz! |
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Even in his debut as a Kamen Rider, it's mostly not treated as this thing that is supposed to be good. It doesn't feel right that Sougo should have these powers. |
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And good, bad... not really what I'm most upset about? The idea that power doesn't necessarily have a moral coordinate is a standard Kamen Rider philosophy. Using Darkness To Bring Light, and all that. I got nothing against a story that wants to weigh the good Sougo could do in the present against the evil he might perpetrate in the future. It's more that there's no rational or relatable explanation for Sougo's desire to be a king, so the story just acts like there's no counter-argument beyond Potential Future Armageddon. I feel like there are plenty of other things you could put in the Con column! |
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"I'm gonna be the nicest Demon King ever!" That's a line that made me believe I was going to like Sougo and Zi-O as a whole. It's such an absurd line, that I can't help but love. One of the best quotes of the season and the year.
This was the first Rider season I watched as it aired. I remember when Zi-O's design was first revealed, I instantly loved it. I adored the clock theme, the Katagana for Kamen (on the forehead) and Rider (for the eyes), the color scheme, the strong feeling of royalty it had, it was just so good. The opening, Over X Quartzer, is fantastic! It's one of my favorite openings, both visually and musically, feeling very Anime for Rider (I'm aware the others had their own flair of "Anime-like," but Zi-O just hit something that went beyond that to me), and the detail at the end with every Kamen Rider logo cycling over to Zi-O's was great. Also really enjoy the almost Egyptian style music, fitting for Zi-O's theme about time and kingship. Now onto the premiere, the start is straight-up Decade. Oma Zi-O (great suit by the way), just trampling over everyone felt like the beginning of Decade, which if funny since both are anniversary seasons. But I strangely love how there's a shrine to his debut transformation and the Heisei Riders (the worst future, nobody remembers the Showa Riders...) as a testament to his reign. Then we meet Sougo, who starts out singin' "Oh, I just can't wait to be King!" and that's about it for his character, which somewhat baffles me how he ends up as Oma Zi-O in the first place, but hey, I had speculations, though I'll probably talk more about them later. Tsukuyomi, the one trying to resolve things peacefully, honestly didn't think too much of her, though she does have some moments. And then there's the best boy in the show, who I was convinced from the start, Woz. Just Woz. He may be a suped up Phillip, but he's the best, loved every moment he was on screen, just him being the Demon King's butler, without being an actual butler, was just a joy to watch every week. Also, boy, do people in the future have an interesting fashion sense. The Another Riders are interesting, being monster versions of previous Riders, though part of me wishes they had elements of their own monsters in their designs for reasons I'll get into in a later post. But the idea of these being like "what if the Riders were never the good guys and stayed bad?" kind of deal, even though they're absolutely not, was something I liked about the villains, other than that used Za Warudo! I really like the Time Majin, just the idea of a time travelling robot sounds cool, despite being only CGI. But the time travelling elements have some fun little details, like whenever the time period shows up on screen, and it's especially neat how in the Build timeline, it's the day after Cross-Z debuts. Speaking of Build, I loved seeing Sento and Banjo again, and how Sougo, despite knowing nothing about them, nerds out over the fridge lab (even if we don't see the inside), but just how well they were getting along before getting blasted. And then there's Zi-O's majestic debut. Woz really made this transformation even better with his speech, as if the visual of Sougo's transformation wasn't cool enough on its own. And then finally, we have Ren- I mean Geiz! Whom, I'll talk about more in the next episode, but first impressions, "Die, boy!" also, collectable merch! |
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Damn, it started and almost missing out (probably would come back into the Legend Rider thread later).
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