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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Kiva
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07-09-2021, 05:47 AM
#
844
DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
If I liked eating oranges, and I saw you buying up all of the oranges in town, I don't think I'd care a whole lot if you said you were doing it for my benefit.
Taiga's story
for a while
has been that he thought Wataru was a threat to his rule. Either because he wouldn't tow the line, or because he was going to take Mio away, or now because he was declaring himself king. The idea that Taiga would suddenly be okay with that because a man he hated said that it was for Taiga's own good... I don't think that's how emotions like jealousy work?
I̶t̶ ̶d̶e̶p̶e̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶p̶o̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶f̶r̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶e̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶i̶m̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶n̶e̶f̶i̶t̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶s̶k̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶u̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶h̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶e̶r̶t̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶m̶o̶u̶n̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶o̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶u̶y̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶y̶.̶ Taiga wants the rule so he can serve and benefit the Fangires (though also with the mindset that if Fangires associate themselves with humans, they can become weaker which can reduce the rate of Fangire survival in his view), which is always his main motivation, if his rule is taken away, he can't, but Wataru promising to ensure the survival of Fangires (and humans) make it ok for Taiga that Wataru will take up his goal I guess, albeit in Wataru's way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
KAMEN RIDER KIVA - SERIES WRAP-UP
The plot of this series… I think it might be my favorite part? Maybe? It’s not like it amounted to much, in the end. Bishop was an idea, not really a threat. King was a threat, but not really an idea. The Fangire culture never felt like a thing, despite all of the royal trappings and pressure on their leadership. But there was a
fluidity
to the storytelling that I really enjoyed. After Den-O, which would have these lurching Time To Care About Sakurai Again switch-ups in tension and stakes, to have a show that slowly and deliberately evolved its world and expanded its focus? I liked that. I never felt like the Fangire storytelling got in the way of the character storytelling. (God, sometimes it was the other way around,
especially
in the last few episodes.) The world-building for Kiva was solid and unobtrusive, creating just enough friction for these characters to sharpen up against it. Nothing ever felt like wheel-spinning, and there clearly wasn’t a huge rush to resolve things at the finale. It was just a solid world in which to tell some stories about superheroes and love.
I guess the plot being your favorite is about how the finale is something that you're most invested in for the franchise. I only think that the Fangire culture is just an excuse for the monsters to keep themselves on the top of the food chain, and thus is usual terrorizing to other beings like human. Iirc some feel (and probably to a degree me too) that Bishop and King is introduced too late, with not enough time to get through them, Rook is the Four Checkmates that got quite the focus until his death at ep. 30, and he's takes the role of comparatively bullheaded fighter in the group. Reading the review here, to actually not citing Kiva as all good... despite the 'devotion', reminds me of the Hibiki first-half wrap up that despite all the praises, it's actually not all about it due to the praise being given for 'random side events'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
I don’t know if I liked these characters, though.
I mean, I liked the stories that were told with and about these characters. Nago’s quest to accept that he may have a flaw or two, Megumi’s inability to compartmentalize her work and personal lives (she marries her co-worker!), Kengo’s constant and abiding friendship and decency, Shima’s constant and abiding terribleness as a boss, Yuri’s steadfast warrior spirit, Otoya’s steadfast horny spirit, that time Jiro ate a domino… they are memorably weird characters, and that’s no small thing.
But, like, I’m okay saying goodbye to them? For most Kamen Rider shows, reaching the finale is bittersweet. We have to say goodbye to these characters, sometimes forever. The Hibiki finale was almost explicitly about that, and it hits like a punch in the gut. (Sorry to bring up the second half of Hibiki without a Content Warning.) It can suck to lose the characters, even as another show, another set of friends, is on the horizon.
I don’t really feel that sad about saying goodbye to these weirdos. I’m okay with their story being done, even as I enjoyed it. This isn’t Den-O, where you had such a good time going on an adventure with your monster friends that you will keep riding the rails until Ryotaro quits to go have a film career, and you’ll still keep going anyway. This is like… this is like gorging yourself on a type of snack. You eat so much of it that you get nauseous thinking of having it ever again. It was good - you wouldn’t’ve eaten so much if it wasn’t - but you would never ask for more of it. These characters and their journeys… I am okay putting them away for good.
Didn't expect for this view. As from what I see (ofc I can be wrong) there's rarely criticism for the characters here similar to the plot part, particularly Maya who has been singing praise almost every time. I'd think it's sadder to part and say goodbye to the actors instead of the characters like if they retire, because characters can potentially return in future series like crossovers (and for Den-O you mentioned there, the series seem to never die yet), but Decade is made that way because they can't get back Joe Odagiri (Yusuke, he's not into toku). The end is the characters actually still going into a new journey even, with Masao's appearence and Neo-Fangires threat, with the mystery of, who will be Wataru's wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Thematically, I liked a lot of what it was saying, even if I don’t think it was saying the same thing all the way through. I’m not sure if it’s supposed to mirror Wataru’s growth as a man, but I liked the show moving from Wataru’s lack of self-definition into Wataru’s need for connection into Wataru’s self-determination into Wataru’s need for love. There’s a fuzziness to it, maybe, where certain early themes fell by the wayside. (Boy, Inoue pretty much got sick of talking about art and artists, didn’t he?) And the larger theme of Love, using that to encompass both familial and romantic love was sort of tricky, and not entirely successful. (Basically, once Wataru gets horny for Mio, it’s a little weird for him to keep thinking about his mom and dad.) But there’s always a whole bunch to unpack from an Inoue show, and this one was no different. I liked seeing him talk about uncaring systems, and self-determination, and the power of art (when he felt like it), and all of the rest of it. Seeing all of that run through Wataru made for a frequently mystifying, occasionally frustrating, and perpetually fascinating show.
I'd admit, the thematic part, to explore more regarding love and its types, probably it's not commonly touched upon in genre like this (Kiva has gotten the label of soap opera KR too), so I guess, and considering what you talk about the love themes, this did the job rather well, as well as likely new information if it's not really common. I'd think if Wataru wants to be a peacemaker, he should take the role of agape then as it's also one of the type in four loves, with the other being family, friendship, and romance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Speaking of Wataru! I like him. I like that kid. I don’t really
care
about him, maybe, but I like him.
It’s a weird thing to realize, as a show is ending, that you don’t really care about the title character. I liked his journey, but that was almost always for other characters that intersected with it, or the themes it was dealing with. Wataru himself…
eh
. He was almost always overshadowed on this show by other characters, and, like,
the final episode only works because of the Megumi/Nago plot.
That’s not great! That is pretty much a failure from a storytelling perspective, a viewer not caring about the end of the title character’s story. The performance was cute, and there isn’t really a lot to kick about for his series-arc (outside of the last two episodes), but I find myself real lukewarm on Wataru as a hero. Sweet boy, but not a hero I’m finding myself that attached to.
For him being overshadowed by other characters, still, I'd like for media to cover every type of character, including the ones that is less stand out like Wataru, being a timid pushover at first. It's similar view held in Den-O, thinking Ryotaro is overshadowed by other, more over the top characters like the Taros Imagins, despite Takeru Sato being hugely successful actor by Kamen Rider standards. For people to care more about other characters, I won't know if it's a failure from storytelling perspective as it seems to usually happen in any media, as people commonly considers the side characters as more interesting and their favorite carrying the show, and some of the reasons are inherent stuff you'll get for being main characters; being less developed or explained due to having less screentime for... not being main characters, making them more intriguing or mysterious to the viewer/reader. Getting more screen time means the audience is more likely to get bored of them regardless of character types while others characters with less screen time are loved. Sometimes even double standard can happen like disliking the main character and liking the side character for exact same reason.
__________________
The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series
(currently only found Ryuki and OOO's).
Last edited by DreadBringer; 07-09-2021 at
08:27 AM
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