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dreamcastegirl Watched All of Kamen Rider Ryuki and Now Hates Herself
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02-11-2021, 01:23 PM
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DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Layton13
Because a battle of ideas, desires and the like is build and won by understanding. People won't spring on onto the same argument. If you don't understand the ideology of your opponent your chances of confining them are slim at best. And, maybe, you could find a flaw in your own set of beliefs. Shinji doesn't do that. He never thinks about how others may feel, never considers their side, that's why he always loses. That's why the war ends in a stalemate. That's why everyone will be eaten by Mirror Monsters. That's why Ren has to clean up his mess because Shinji failed!
This is what he thinks when he knows Ren's wish:
"Uunderstanding other Riders" doesn't and shouldn't automatically means that you must agree with them and let them have their way. If their way is morally wrong, then they should be stopped, or should try help them find an alternative solution to their problem
if there's any
(But in Rider War there is literally no way to win. There are no single good choices for any of the cast. I mean consider the other cast too for dealing with it other than Shinji. The game is rigged for other Riders who wants to win in Odin, Kagawa's plan will be countered by Time Vent, and the Riders can be killed by eaten by contract monsters for thoughts about stopping the war or taking their Deck away). Humans generally have desires, including baddies who harms others in pursuit of their desire, which is morally wrong, and any of Rider's wish can quality; it would be equivalent of serial killing to achieve their desires, as you need the other Riders to die for your wish to be granted.
And if Shinji just go along with the flow and fight without worrying about casualties, then some people will still die (i.e. Riders who lose the fight). Pin the blame on Shiro Kanzaki, who makes every Riders morally justify their mutual fighting and killing, therefore promote killing and death. The point of Ryuki is perhaps, how horrifying war is, like how it puts innocent people in danger, how good people can get involved in the war and die. And the ending is Kanzaki letting go of the war, as he's also no exception to the cycle of suffering the war creates. Shinji also actually beats a lot of people (Ren, Asakura, etc.). What he doesn’t do is
kill
other Riders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Layton13
No, Kitaoka is about survival, fear, and hopelessness. Shinji never understands him, why he fights or why he thinks he can't leave. He only ever tries platitudes which obviously don't work. Shinji only deals in platitudes, never developing past them. It's a hollow conviction with no ground to stand on.
The reason Kitaoka wants to survive is so that he can continue his extravagant lifestyle, "do whatever I want, for however long I want". He does develop later, from his mindset where friendship is a weakness; his body fails him and interferes with his life, thus he needs short-lived alliances with other Riders like Shinji and Ren to keep going, reducing the hostility between them. He also subtly pushes away other people including Goro, suggesting him to find a job elsewhere, and from his body he realizes the fear of the pain he experiences. He can’t fathom the idea that someone will be around to love and mourn him when he dies. And that also leads to him to realize that being immortal while everyone around him is mortal is lonely. When he realizes that he’s got a good life and people around who love him, then he lets go of that wish.
But that also means his development appeals to Shinji's plead, where by letting go of immortal wish, he's no longer willing to fight in the Rider War, only doing so to stop Asakura and atone himself. He expresses his quitting more openly to Goro but did talk to Ren about Shinji being actually a good influence to them. And this is what Shinji thinks about his wish, clearly sending him to a dliemma again, so not understanding him is wrong:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Layton13
He doesn't really care about doing the right thing though. He doesn't care about the Riders about saving anyone. he wants to stick it to Kenzaki and that's about it. Saving the Riders is an afterthought for him.
I'm taking it from his conversation in ep. 23:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Layton13
His struggle with Asakura if he can be saved and the like never goes anywhere regardless. Even when he vows to stop him he can't follow through. Because Shinji doesn't have conviction, ideals, just hollow platitudes.
At later part he kept him alive but that's done for Mika's (the girl with Ouja) sake, that if Asakura died, it'll potentially cause severe psychological issues on her. He later handed him to the police, so it's him being punished, just that Asakura was free again due to a genre blind lawyer. Yes Asakura is still alive, but at least in that part he didn't let Asakura get away scot free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Layton13
Honestly, disagree. Inoue understood Shinji right from the get-go, or else he wouldn't have introduced Sanako Kanzaki, the most similar person to Shinji in the cast. And like Shinji, she ends up being wrong pretty much all of the time. All of Shinji's worst traits are personified in her, she is stubborn, judgmental and never deviates from her first opinion, hell, it's even her catchphrase. Inoue saw right past Kobayashi and pointed out what was wrong with Shinji and he was dead on the money in my opinion.
At this point, Shinji was in process of losing his innocence (him being pushed to actually participate in the war at ep. 45), and Inoue has him making mistakes from the Scissors part. Though my actual point is that, how he handles Shinji isn't the only thing that I'm talking about for Inoue here.
Like he seems to always be working off Kitaoka’s very first appearance. For example, while Kobayashi handled his most dickish moment (when he tricked Shinji into thinking he’d killed Goro), Inoue writes him with more casual dickery, like in ep. 29-30. In his writing it’s a guarantee that Kitaoka will strike out to Reiko, where Kobayashi has Kitaoka still showing respect to her when he’s been shot down.
Ren and Reiko are more of a hardasses who is hard to believe they actually care about other people, and had to be incredibly stupid for the plot to work; Ren trolls more, acts more as angry jerk, and like in Episode Final: When he sees Ryuga and mistakes him for Shinji, Ren doesn’t question why Shinji is acting out-of-character; he immediately starts suspecting him. He shows no concern over Shinji at all and completely fails to act when he sees Ryuga overtaking him. Same guy who in Inoue episode too wouldn’t once believe that Shinji kidnapped his coworker and so spent money he didn’t have to hire Kitaoka to defend him.
There's also inconsistency between ep. 14 and 15 where Ren’s attitude goes from settled and accepting of the changes happening in his life (having exposed Kitaoka to help Shinji and stopped fighting against the Atori group becoming more like a family) to moody and depressed and picking on Shinji. Believable, but may be too massive step backwards in development the very next day.
Reiko is being OOC that she starts yelling and raging unlike her cool, professional way. Reiko in Asakura's brother episode is hit with the same case as Ren on Episode Final. And Okubo is a character who while at first glance is silly and turns out to be surprisingly serious and good at his job, has amazing insight into why the characters are doing what they do, like picking up that Shinji isn't surprised in Shimada's photo shown at ORE, but in Inoue's writing Okubo is reduced to be just another nutcase, losing all pretense of being the boss.
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