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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Masked Rider Ryuki
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04-29-2020, 11:15 AM
#
607
DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
It only took them
forty-eight goddamn episodes
, but I’m sincerely overjoyed that this show is actually spending some time on the plot point that, hey, maybe
Yui
should get a vote in what happens to Yui?
Jokes aside, what do you mean by this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Like, the show seems to get it, here in the end, that it’s not just Shiro who’s being an asshole to Yui.
Yeah, during the time you complained about episode 25 before where it's bad writing for Shiro not wanting to stop the war to cheer Yui up.... it's in character. Shiro originally has a sympathetic motivation, but to achieve it, he has gone too far from the sympathetic title, devolving into a totally selfish horrible villain, who is completely uncaring to anyone other than Yui, including herself even, not taking into account Yui's needs and wants. At least he's also clearly pained to lock her up. And this is even more evil than Shiro in ep. 27 where he presents himself as having god/devil complex and threatens even her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Well, Shinji faster than Ren, since Shinji’s already realized that he can’t save Yui through fighting.
Dunno man but here Ren's just implementing the exact same mindset about Yui as in to Eri, being selfishly biased to his loved ones. He wants Yui to live because he's close to her and he loses nothing (does this also make him a tamer version of Shiro?). He doesn't really care (though he'll try to save people who's abducted by Mirror Monsters) about the dying innocents as long as he gets what he wants, which is him together with his loved ones being safe, contrasting both of his friends Shinji and Yui who are both devastated of all the bodycounts the war, either from Riders or monsters (Yui also remarks about her hating many other people killed, or getting their lives ruined, apart from her friends fighting), and selflessly insist to take all the burdens for themselves for the sake of the others. The "decision" Shinji talks is not about how Yui should get to decide the reasonable cost for her life, it's about letting her choose to live or die (committing suicide) herself. And no, no amount of costs for her life (if it's regarding other living beings) is reasonable for her. Earlier she also begs Shiro to not hurt any innocents (not just her friends) and doesn't want to see anyone hurting each other (like... fighting). It truly is all-encompassing for her, your opinion otherwise for the Rider War, which just helps for Shinji to connect to her. Shinji tries to help, but probably not necessarily in the way of preserving her life but making sure she's comforted (as a standard human decency like to Eri by being on her side even if it doesn't help), like in the next episode Shinji also fully accepts there are no reasonable costs for her, with him just using Yui as an excuse to convince Shiro stopping the war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
But there’s a great swerve in this one, and it’s because of a Kitaoka/Ren scene. I really enjoy these, and they’re a rare delight in this series.
Kitaoka doesn't only cut him off, he's the one actually saying it himself Shinji's an idiot but a great person,
not
Ren (though he's going to... in contrast to ep. 42 where he agrees to everything Kitaoka thinks about him). He also tries to hide his illness even if it potentially wins him Reiko (and its futile anyway if you're going to die, leaving Reiko alone again). Well sure Ren also grows as people, but his wish never changes, but it also gives him more of a hard time to handle with the war, because now, other than his killing, he cares for more than 1 person, which is also a point where Shiro tortures Ren with, forcing him to choose between his friends or Eri. For Kitaoka, he's the one to actually retire and stop fighting, if only because he realizes that, he already has an awesome life that is worth living (obviously! if you're rich and famous), though obviously Goro plays the most part in that. Goro wishes for Kitaoka to be happy, not for him to win the Rider War... so it's baffling for him to do morally questionable things in ep. 14, when he's not against him winning the war and stands up for him to a lesser thing (taking care of Megumi).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
And I like that scene as nice bit of writing and acting, but I
love
it for how it changes Ren’s mind, gets him to fight Shiro alongside Shinji.
During a battle between Odin and Survives... there's a funny moment. Ryuki trying to steal Odin's shield with Strange Vent that transforms into Steal Vent, only for Odin to also use Steal Vent himself and get his shield back. Probably also symbolizes the series itself about where it feels like there's a huge change has occurred and the show has to evolve, but then things slide back, regress. Also it seems that Strange Vent's mechanic is explained by internet as not truly random, but turning into the next card opponent would use (I wonder how it'll work when fighting many Riders at once though). I wouldn't think Ren changes his mind though regarding the war, he isn't against Yui staying alive, which is Shiro's goal. Also 2 Survives are still not enough to take on Odin (besides blindsided by Knight Survive's Shoot Vent). And now Ouja reveals his wish for the war, to have an eternal Rider War... plunging the entire world into chaos, making him an even bigger threat if he wins with the wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
It’s nice for our heroes to figure it out in the end, and I’m into the idea of Yui getting to feel integral to the conclusion of the series on an
actual character level
, but I wish they didn’t have to take so long to figure it out.
I know this is that part, but you
have to
hear me out regarding this, for the sake of the series. I wanted to talk about this before, but obviously can't because spoilers. Even if you have a problem in this part, it's necessary to keep Kamen Rider Ryuki going, necessary to take this long to figure this out. It's likely that, the wish also has limits (regarding the main series part,
not
the side medias) that it cannot revive the dead, which is likely why Ren and Shiro not opting to "revive" as their wish. But either way, wordplay is important regarding this. Ren constantly remarks about Eri not having time left and he has to finish his fight quickly, because his wish is to
cure
her, not revive her, making it a personal time limit for Ren.
Same for Shiro, his wish is to extend Yui's existing life with a new life created from the wish, not reviving her, which is why he gives time limit for the war, the time limit is Yui's birthday, her death (though at ep. 49, she disintegrates
before
her birthday, so Shiro thinks there's still time to save her). If Yui dies (there's also him against Alternatives and likely keeping
Shinji
and Ren around to protect her from those), Shiro cannot use the wish on her to extend her life as she's already dead, and he needs other Riders dying to fulfill that wish, so he persuades them to more actively fight so they all die quicker before Yui dies. Riders are also all, at the end, just pawns to Shiro to gain his own wish (In TVTropes, Asakura is the god of "Big Bad Wannabe" for Pantheons!) with his own last standing Rider Odin. If he truly can save Yui regardless of her condition like reviving her dead self, Shiro wouldn't need time limit at all, or ensuring her staying alive between the Riders.
If this part of series is already figured out completely (not vaguely like "Shiro's doing all of this for the sake of Yui"; doing what? and what benefit he would give for her?) by everyone back at much earlier part of the series, the series will be all about Yui's repeated attempt to commit suicide (done much earlier than this episode), so that Shiro's wish won't work on her, while also telling Shiro she rejected it. Where Shiro's plan is foiled, he cannot save the now-dead Yui, giving him no reason to continue the war with a wish out of his reach, ending Ryuki very quickly. After that, either that Shiro hears her, relents and stop, or not and rewinds time to start the war again (and it also depends on how long it takes to figure this out quickly in his next takes of the war that it ends just as quickly, or lasting as long as this series). I guess she'll quickly die that way being a normal human physically-wise. And even if Shiro locks her up to prevent that like here, history will repeat with their parents locking them up, she
also
dies by being sick or starving like her as a child.
So the conclusion is, the truth regarding Mirror World, it's not only the "ON button" (Yui eventually dying due to abusive parents and getting only a short second living chance spurs Shiro creating 13 Decks and utilize the monsters to start a Rider War and win the game/wish himself to save her) for the series, it's also an instant "OFF button" (Yui eventually dying due to abusive parents and getting only a short second living chance lets her fully know about Shiro's true nature of his plan to reject his attempt, and if he doesn't hear, there's committing suicide as a solution for the war) for the series. So it has to be unknown for a long time to let the series run for this long to tell enough stories. I know this is talking about the moment happening in this episode, but like, if everyone figures it out at ep. 12, Yui will pull this exact stunt at ep. 12, ending Ryuki at 12 episodes (or a bit more if Shiro locks her up but won't extend it very far like likely 15 episodes or something), for example.
Last edited by DreadBringer; 04-29-2020 at
11:20 AM
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