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Thread
:
DS Wants You! To Watch Toku(-inspired) Anime!
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12-10-2020, 08:17 AM
#
214
DreamSword
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,392
Okay right off, thank you guys for the responses! Legit I loved reading them, and appreciate that you all gave my uncharacteristically long giganto-post the time of day, haha.
Now let me go ahead and make another one via responding to all these! *deep inhale*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Androzani84
Honestly, I can’t argue with your assessment of Akane. Especially having seen both version of the original and both Malcolm and his counterpart Takeshi are practically saints by comparison (Malcolm’s reasons for turning the water supply into acid is marginally more justifiable than murdering a dude because he shoved you and Takeshi’s only casualty was a dog in one episode entirely by accident). Not gonna try playing any form of defence. I know for a fact “it’s supposed to be darker/lighter” does not fly with everyone, especially when some things are just plain terrible.
Like I've said before, I don't know much about the OG Gridman other than just some general stuff via osmosis, so it's been interesting learning about Takeshi. From what I've come to gather, I guess the staff at DiC who made SSSS really liked his character and thus kept alot of his aspects in Malcolm? If so I think I'll end up liking the guy whenever I actually get around to watching the show.
Quote:
I’ve also been thinking about it and I think I’ve found a reason I’ve gravitated towards this show (beyond liking Inferno Cop and SSSS when I saw them for the first time) is due to some recycled elements from Ultraman Ginga. I can certainly see some similarities between Akane’s plot line and episode 10 of that show’s victim of the week plot. Though I think the latter is better handled, since we actually get a buildup over 9 episodes and a movie with this character before we see her go bad, and it does have something of a fairly epic payoff. (IMO)
Like I said, one thing that definitely works in this show's' favor is its various references and callbacks, because they're used in a very natural and unobnoxious way! I never once felt distracted or like the show was trying to use them to pander.
Heck, there were apparently a ton of Transformers references that all went totally over my head since I'm not really into that franchise.
Quote:
Another thing I loved is that the show acknowledges that Utsumi and Rikka not actively contributing much to Gridman and co’s battles with Akane’s Kaiju doesn’t make them useless. Especially since the fandom in general (mostly Kamen Rider and Super Sentai, with Power Rangers joining in to a lesser extent) seems to operate under the mindset that any character who doesn’t transform, fight or build a weapon is useless unless they do one of the three. It’s a fairly closed and unhealthy mindset which frankly goes against one of the main themes of these franchises. That being that real heroes can exist in spite of being able to transform.
Yeah, it's definitely not super unique to the genre by any means, but I still love whenever there's a moment or an episode focused on that. Rikka and Sho do alot to contribute to the team, and I did like that Sho needed to be reminded and shown just how important his optimism and bonding with the group actually was. It's just a shame that it was Rikka who reminded him and not Gridman.
Power Rangers SPD does this same lesson in a fantastic way with the episode focused on Boom, and to emphasize your point about the fandom, people still to this day insist that Boom should've been the Omega Ranger, even though that would've totally went against both Boom's' and Sam's' character development.
Quote:
Anyway, it’s been nice to see your thoughts on this show and it’s been nice sharing these Easter eggs. I look forward to seeing what Dynazenon has to offer.
Thank you for sharing the various bits of trivia! Heck, you pointed out callbacks to Syber-Squad that I totally missed. It was always fun to read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fish Sandwich
Okay, I've rewatched the last episode, thought about everything a whole lot, and, thanks to your surprisingly negative take on a lot of what the show does with its story, I've figured out where to start. Or maybe it's more like where I want to end? I mentioned I have complicated feelings about this show. Describing my personal experience with it could easily involve saying a lot of very mean things if I really wanted to, but I don't *ever* want that. I don't think I'd be able to forgive myself for s***ing on something a lot of people love just for the sake of it. Now, arguing in favor of the creative vision of a work?
That
is the kind of thing I'm here for. Plus, it can still involve the personal stuff! (This will take a minute; apologies in advance for using this thread as an excuse to vent.)
is this what die feels like whenever you respond to him
I'm kidding! I'm kidding! And yeah, despite how (apparently) good I am at sounding negative, I tried my best to highlight why I still love this show regardless. And no need to apologize! That's part of what stuff like this is here for.
Quote:
I think it's fair to call myself a big fan of the original Gridman? etc.
Oh this paints a very clear picture of where you're coming from with the rest of this post, and it's actually a really great way to experience something new, I think!
Discovering your own little show that you enjoy immensely, man, that was part of the feelings behind me making this thread!
Quote:
There's a line in Gridman's finale that's become one of my favorite lines I've ever heard in tokusatsu: "If you think you've done something wrong, why not try taking responsibility for it?" It's a pretty simple sentiment for a pretty straightforward show, but it hit me like a hammer first watching the episode because it embodies perfectly what my single favorite thing about Gridman is – it's a very proactive hero show. A series about a bunch of middle school kids who manage to put together a supercomputer out of trash they scraped up with the scarce money kids have, and who use that computer to save the world. Every one of Gridman's abilities, down to his typical ability to grow in size like any Ultraman style hero, is directly owed to the tireless work of these three children punching WAY beyond their weight.
That's a great line! While it wasn't in the US adaptation, the overall idea is still there in Syber-Squad. While Servo is some mystical anomaly that just kinda attaches itself to Sam, everything else involving him, from his weapons, to his robots, are all made via the collective effort of Team Samurai.
And in terms of taking responsibility for your actions, that is some Malcolm definitely did come the end of the show, which is something I felt Akane never properly did, or at the very least it felt alot more hallow after all was said and done.
...That is until Syber-Squad got artificially inflated, but that's a whole 'nother rant.
Quote:
Gridman has this attitude that's closely tied to its status as a new hero for the digital age, which is that people can overcome just about anything with enough ingenuity and hard work. That's what technology is, at its core. There's even a line in the chorus of that amazing theme song that goes "anyone can be a hero", and that's what Naoto, Ippei, and Yuka all are; they're people who won't crack no matter what you throw their way. Naturally, then, Takeshi is the main antagonist because he represents the opposite of all of that. He's a guy who will take half a step towards solving his problems, say it's too hard, say that he tried, and go back to his room to listen to the digital devil on his shoulder telling him he should waste his time with unproductive schemes for petty self-satisfaction instead. Takeshi avoids dealing with his feelings. Takeshi
retreats
.
In SSSS.Gridman, nearly every character is Takeshi, and that drove me absolutely insane.
Dunno if I'd go that far, but I will say, this section definitely gave me something to appreciate about the Dream episode, so, for real, thanks! But more on that later.
Quote:
the theme song and why it's a banger
Oh yeah, the theme song is absolutely AMAZING. But it does kinda highlight one issue I have with the anime; Lingering plot threads.
The biggest one, atleast to the way my brain is wired, is "What was the promise Yuta made to Rikka before the start of the show?" Like, the anime brings it up about three separate times and we never actually learn what it is. The theme song itself even mentions it, for crying out loud!
I guess they thought the audience wouldn't be satisfied with the answer no matter what it was, so they dropped it?
But yeah, it's no Baby Dan Dan, but it's a great song in terms of, well, everything about it!
Quote:
SSSS.Gridman was about cold people, but it wasn't a cold show. It was portraying these distant people in order to tell a story about the necessity of closing that distance. It's even a motif in that music video up there that was made after the series concluded. The original show represented the optimism of a world of rapidly advancing electronic technology, and the anime, in what is arguably a very smart and logical update, represents the remoteness of the world built atop that. It's a show about teenagers who know each other superficially, calling themselves friends, working together or hanging out for the odd shallow conversation about recent gossip or hobbies or what have you; all the while never really leaning on each other, never risking getting too close. Most of the characters in the show are running away from their feelings in some way. It's most obvious with Rikka and Akane, but extends to characters like Anti and even Yuuta in one way or another too.
And the thing is, eventually, they
do
learn to lean on each other, and they're all so much healthier for it. Gridman goes back to being that optimistic toku hero of old and lifts the literal sedative fog trapping everyone in their narrow world. Rikka is the one telling Utsumi to have more faith in his childish concept of the Gridman Alliance, and says it won't be a big deal if Yuuta doesn't remember the events of the show, because they can just make friends with him again. That isn't a big deal to her! And then there's Akane, who abandons the repetitive cycle she's resigned herself to in favor of facing a world that can give her happiness that will be more than a lie. She stops retreating.
As someone who's a sucker for the power of friendship, I felt SSSS.Gridman did it quite well(mostly). I personally felt that it did a good job at portraying just how awkward total strangers put into this situation would actually be, and how they grew to bond with one another over time. The Beach episode did a nice job at highlighting this I feel, with Yuta and Sho acting alot more like actual friends, and Rikka refusing to be left out not just because she was a part of the group, but because, well,
she was a part of the group.
And genuinely cared about the boys ontop of her "duty" as one of the city's' protectors.
Quote:
Does she deserve that? S***, I don't know. I mean, I don't really like her, but I still know DreamSword's Daguva comparison is definitely way overboard when Akane's capacity for remorse alone disqualifies her from being that level of monstrous. I think there's a bit of a problem with the show trying to have its cake and eat it here; Akane getting off scott-free for murder kinda hinges on the idea that these virtual people are only as real to her as is convenient, but the audience is conditioned from the start to just see them as people, so even if all her evil gloating is merely a mask for deeply rooted self-loathing, it could come off pretty awkward in the end, for sure. But on a broad strokes level, Akane growing to realize other people
don't
exist at her convenience, and everybody being willing to see the human heart at the center of all that evil, it all makes total sense for a narrative that is, once again, about closing distances.
My comparison wasn't really meant to be literal, but I see where you're coming from.
I could also argue that she only feels "remorse" in so far as how it affects her rather than actually feeling any empathy towards others, but that's an ENTIRE other debate that is probably best left alone.
Quote:
deep symbolism in the common period and closing distances
That is actually incredibly subtle. Huge props if that's what they were going for!
I think here's probably the best spot to say the new thing you made me realize about the Dream episode. The episode wasn't just about "Don't you feel bad that Akane has no friends?" (although that is a major part of its framing) but also to show that Yuta, Rikka, and Sho, all knew it was better to face reality and that they could count on eachother to pull them through, rather than trying to force any sort of relationship like what Akane was doing.
It's just a shame that the episode puts
so much
emphasis on Akane that it's hard to see that other aspect.
Quote:
...I'm really sorry this ended up being so long? I feel decent about how it came out, which doesn't always happen when I ramble this much, but I don't know. I guess my whole point can just be condensed to what I've already said, which is that SSSS.Gridman is a series I wasn't super welcoming of that turned itself around for me with a final stretch I thought payed major dividends on so many elements I was previously quite grumpy about. Nowadays I still feel conflicted – removed from the initial excitement, it became clear again I wasn't exactly
imagining
a lot of my issues, either, but still, I'm an awful lot more inclined to say the show is owed its success these days. I'm also not too sure if I want to watch Dynazenon for fear of going through this emotional rollercoaster twice, though, so... yeah,
conflicted
.
Hopefully this wasn't a drag to read!
Don't be sorry! I really liked reading what you had to say! And thanks to giving my own thoughts the time of day!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheRaizin
Reading Dreamsword's opinion on Akane is very interesting in that I never actually felt this way on my first watching. I don't know why though. On me following this thread, it did make me go: "Wait a minute, he's right!" on several instances. Akane's character has some issues on the writing, maybe the show needed more episodes to convery her character other than "girl with escapism issues enabled by a big bad with a weird name". And yeah, it's become jarring that she's done a lot of things and the main cast kinda just forgives her for that. Especially when she stabbed Yuta and Rikka wasn't all that much angry.
I still like her tho.
Hey man, I'm not here to dictate what you should and shouldn't like. So if you like her as a character despite all that, great! I know I like alot of stuff people would define as trash, haha.
I will say this though, and I know that this is gonna sound SUPER weird after all the ranting I've done, but I actually liked Akane more when she was portrayed as nothing but a kill-crazy lunatic. I found her alot more entertaining that way. So when the anime tries to pull "Oh but you see she's actually SUPER DEEP don't you feel bad for her?" All I could think to reply with was "Uh, no? What are you even doing?" Basically killed the whole mood.
Quote:
But with the reveal of this anime (and the prequel manga I'm attempting to read) that the people living in the world are all digital beings called Repli-Compoids that were programmed to basically like Akane unconditionally, it kinda lessens the impact of any death. The characters forgiving Akane easily, as iffy as it was, now kinda makes sense. They were all pretty much tools to Akane for her fantasies. Only that the fantasies grew a bit of their own conscience and told Akane to wake up.
See, that'd work fine if that mentality didn't also extend to Gridman and the Neon Genesis Group, who are outsiders and thus not under the influence of Akane's' programming. They all just roll with this idea that she's totally clean, which, well, she ain't. Combine that with how Sho and Rikka are shown breaking their programming multiple times and it just falls flat for me.
Quote:
Gotta talk about one of my weirdly favorite scenes tho. The scene where Yuta and Sho hang out in 721 after he got into and argument with Rikka about fighting Akane. It's not my favorite because of what happens in the scene, it's the atmosphere and took me back a bit to my first trip in Japan and entered one of their convenience stores. That or I just like convenience stores in general. Anyway, I think I could also hear Ultraman R/B's ED in the background as well during that scene? I happened to think of it when Youtube played R/B's ED and I thought I recognized it from somewhere.
The show did do hangout scenes really well. That scene, the scene of Yuta and Sho in the train, and the bits of them at the school festival? All very nicely emphasizing them growing closer, and made me think of my own friends. It's basic stuff sure, but it's a small bit of effort I've seen others shows totally neglect, so I appreciate it.
Quote:
Got not much else to say. Again, I enjoyed following this thread and rewatching a few episodes of Gridman and I eagerly await SSSS Dynazenon, especially with the possibility of Sigma showing up. The kind with the blue hair and yellow eyes is very suspicious.
Again, thank you! And yeah, I hope Sigma shows up too. It'll be doubly interesting to see where this goes since, and correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't think they've even shown Gridman himself yet? Curious.
---
*deep exhale* Thanks again guys! I know I usually finish these off with a pic of some new merch related to the show I just covered, but unfortunately my pre-order of GSC's' Primal Acceptor got delayed by two months, so instead I'll just repost a pic I took featuring my favorite Toku Heroes:
No idea what I'll cover next, but whatever it ends up being it's gotta wait awhile. My job is currently in the middle of its busiest time of the year so uh, not too much free time right now! As always, if anyone has any suggestions or wants to discuss other aspects of the various shows already talked about in this thread, go for it!
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Last edited by DreamSword; 12-10-2020 at
09:41 PM
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