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Thread
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Kamen Rider Die watches Masked Rider Ryuki
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04-29-2020, 11:31 PM
#
614
Kamen Rider Die
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
An actionable way that will singlehandedly end Ryuki. This happens at the end of Ryuki, but if the truth is known much earlier she would likely also do this, and only repeated attempts of this if it fails, but overall it'll be very easy for her to die this way quickly ending the series.
I mean, that's one thing that could occur, sure. Or the writers could come up with some reason why she doesn't keep throwing herself off of a building for 40 straight episodes? I think they could manage that.
Like, and maybe this is going to come down to Agree To Disagree, I'm not really arguing the internal logic of some of the show. (at least, not this part right this second.) I'm arguing that
I found it creatively unfulfilling
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
But it's ok if you're gonna talk about this on a greater length after the series is over, because I thought you'll leave the series for good after finishing it.
Current plan is the final episode and the movie-or-whatever in the next day or two, then a series retrospective, then a little postscript. All done by the weekend, probably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
I'd like to see the presumed other choices, because I'm also confused myself about the other takes based on the show's hopeless premise. And sometimes this discussion about different takes they wish can significantly diverge from the series' setting (even ignoring pre-established something there) which IMO would turn into different series.
Honest to god, I don't have any. I don't process stories that way. I can only tell you what did or didn't work for me., or where I thought a story might be headed. It's way above my paygrade (in that my paygrade for this is nothing) to try and fix Kamen Rider stories, especially ones that came out 17 years ago. That sort of fan fic correcting, it's completely not my thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
Their parents are simply horrible people (which is harshly.. realistic), what do you expect from abusive parents? They are obviously going to leave them to die, if they are cold and uncaring enough to lock them up in the attic permanently, and Shiro's pleas (about Yui being sick and dying)? Just ignored and lock them again, likely because they thought it was just their whining daughter and snivelling son going on again.
I'm not sure if I'd describe anything going on with Yui and Shiro's backstory as "simple". Maybe "cartoonish"? The level of evil from the parents is beyond ludicrous to me. Are they just
torturing
these children? That seems like a way bigger story element that this show built it up to be, not least of which because Yui And Shiro's Childhood is sort-of a moving target on this show. These kids were clearly sent to school, dressed, fed, but also neglected and imprisoned? They took family trips to the beach that Yui clings to and retreats to, but also that was all a lie they told themselves? They had family that took them in, but also family that was okay splitting up two
horrifically abused
children? Like, the abused backstory is.. it is
incredibly problematic
to use in such an offhand way. That is fraught thematic material and using it to paper over gaps in backstory is...
I would not recommend it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
Also why there are Mirror version of Kanzaki siblings? Because Yui and Shiro also draw themselves... like them drawing the monsters. Mirror version of Yui and Shiro exists the same way as all the Mirror/Contract Monsters do, and like humans in Mirror World, Mirror World humans also can only exist for so long in real world which is why she'll die at age 20.
But
why
does any of that stuff work that way? A show, even a Kamen Rider show, can't just
say
stuff like that and move on. These two kids just drew a magic world of monsters and duplicates into existence? How? Are
they
magic? Is the
mirror
magic? Is the
mansion
magic? Did the Mirror World exist before they found it? Why was there only a duplicate of Yui? Why did the duplicate forget she was a duplicate? These things, they're
so random
at such a late stage that they're more distracting to me than they are insightful. It's like if I had an ice cream cone, and you asked me where I got it, and I said, "Oh, I got it as a prize from a trio of mermaids for demolishing an entire building with one punch." Like, I answered your question, but you are probably going to have
so many more questions now
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
What differentiates Yui's performance here, compared to when she was "on the verge of tears" before?
This was a good time for her to cry! It is okay to cry when you are evaporating! Free pass!
Also, I just felt for her then. A death scene's tough, especially a special effect-y death scene like hers. It's tough to get to that primal emotion, and I thought the actor really delivered. Super subjective, but I thought the performance was aces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
Also regarding "just misery until we die", nope, Shiro went under complete breakdown now,
I was mostly talking about the hero Riders, specifically Ren and Shinji. I, uh, I wasn't super into caring about how Shiro felt at that point. He's a monster, and I couldn't muster much sympathy for him then. (And I thought the actor botched his part of the Yui death scene, so double eff that dude.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
And do you forget that Kitaoka is... incurable without winning the war? Kitaoka will also soon die, and like Toujou, Riders don't need to die via Rider battles, or them dying in Rider forms. Shiro only wants those Riders to die, and Kitaoka will also soon get that fate.
I don't remember Shiro handing out sick days before! Kitaoka's been dying this entire time (and been hospitalized before!) and there was never an indication that his participation was optional. And, yeah, Shiro needs them to die before he can end the Rider Battles, but neither Asakura nor Kitaoka are
actually dead
by the time Shiro declares Ren the final competitor. Even when Kitaoka was
definitely still alive
in the previous episode, Shiro was just like Three Is Enough. If the number doesn't even seem to matter, why have so many competitors chewing up the clock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
OK, probably I have to explain the wish, the best one I can find, from the TVTropes page, and the reason why Shiro really wants the Riders to die (also, "Riders Can't Quit" is only to make sure any Riders that fight in his game dies, either by getting killed by other Riders or eaten by Contract Monsters)
The wish is created from the lives of 12 Kamen Riders (yeah, like collecting all the Dragon Balls, or in KR Ghost; collecting Eyecons, here you collect the lives of 12 Riders for the wish). That is why the Rider War exists, and why Shiro needs the other 12 people to fight and die. Everything that Shirou creates - all of the powers and magical abilities - is a phantom that only exists in (or in connection to) the Mirror World. To create a true "wish", he needs 12 people to die as Kamen Riders.
That's a neat take, but I don't recall a word of that actually being stated in an episode of Masked Rider Ryuki. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's nothing that's been on this show, so I can't really speak to it. I certainly don't feel like it's irrefutable proof of anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
Other than that, how strong are the individual Raydragoons (the name of the monsters)? Seems like what they got is numbers (of course humans are still powerless to it), where even critically injured Shinji still wins the fight with them. Oh, no, not just that.
Right after they stabbed Shinji
, he easily swats away the monsters from him. He can't pose anymore for his base Ryuki Final Vent... just instantly kick.
The bug guys, it seems like they're mostly just Strength In Numbers, plus an early edge from jumping Shinji. We'd already seen Asakura take on a legion of them solo, so it's not like they're super tough. I like that better, thematically. This is an episode all about an unstoppable wave of loss, about an unavoidable fate. That's better represented by a ceaseless onslaught of foes than one unbeatable bad-ass.
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