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Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 39- "DenLiner Crash 2007" Discussion
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06-09-2019, 11:04 PM
#
16
MangaArtist18
Bat Hero
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 296
Gonna address this one by one (LONG POST AHEAD):
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
There aren't much teases, foreshadowing, or build up. All the toys are handed to them for the sake of selling toys. It feel like unearn underdeserve fruit.
I'll give you that, but only for the Decade watch, plus one or two other watches here and there. Build's watch was given to him by Sougo at the end of his arc in the past, referencing how Sento had it in the future, creating a stable time loop. This is the same for a majority of the other arcs.
Watch comes from the future, is given/obtained by Sougo in the past.
Which in turn leads to Sougo still having the watch in future episodes up to the 2068 timeline.
The only exception this early on is Ghost, where the future watch is destroyed, and the present one is created, making another causal loop since the watch came from 2068.
Zi-O II (at least one half) came from Woz, but the watch was inactive due to lacking its pair. The second part was given to Sougo by his Mirror Self after Sougo decided that he would accept the good and bad in him instead of trying to turn a blind eye or outright prevent it (like he had until now).
In fact, it is Sougo's declaration of his acceptance, in addition to his time powers, that causes Tsukuyomi to turn on him. But we'll get to that later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
Sometimes we get buddy watches via watermelon or taka/tajadol or even secondary/form change.
Yes, and those watches are still used, as evidenced by the Kabuto arc involving Sougo's use of the Suika and Taka watches to distract Another Kabuto and free Gattack. It might not be THAT often, but at least we're seeing the old toys; better than other shows who just ditch the old item for the new ones (even though the old toys might help them in later fights).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
Also, it raises qs about is showa retcon, the creation of watches and timeline deletion, etc. ex-Gattack and many secondary riders could still henshin and their tiemline is unchange. why didnt they come in to olay in history. It's geiz and time jackers just fulfiling a time paradix because obviouly woz srill exist and loyal to ohma.
Hold up, so the giving out of powerups brings up the Showa retcons (I'm assuming you meant "show's retcons") and brings up timeline deletion?
Well, I should think the timeline thing would make a bit of sense- Another Riders (in the first half of the show) take over the role of their respective Rider, thus, erasing the timeline (events of the show, destroying the mooks, no rider powers); basically making a giant gap where that Rider's show should be, until it is corrected.
And as for the show's retcons? They're not exactly retcons? This is a time travel story. I don't know what you want. If you want a cohesive narrative, you're not getting it with time travel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
They should of explore the myth and lore of ohmaZio more.
And it seems they're going to be doing that in the movie, judging by all the info we've been getting about its story.
We might also get some explanation in the show; it's been stated that the Zi-O II watch used on Oma Day turns Sougo into his Oma form in the OG timeline. That's pretty much all we need to know at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
The rules of obtaining the ride watch change so much.
I mean, kinda?
From what I've seen, the watches are made by absorbing the Rider's powers.
We see this in the Build, Blade, and Kabuto arc: Sento's memories returning activates the watch, Blade's Joker powers are absorbed into the watch, the Kabuto Zecter (or what I/some believe is the legit Kabuto Zecter) simply morphs into the watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
The time jackers are easily the least threatening enemies. In any cases, they are more like allies with schwartz diliberaly handed out watches indirectly.
I won't deny you your opinion there. The Time Jackers are more of a rocky group than anything. They all have their own agendas (as we've seen with Swartz).
As we've seen in-show, they often fight one another.
Swartz gave Heure a Japanese Christmas gift meant to teach kids the importance of money, effectively looking down on him; Hora and Swartz basically abuse Heure as Another Kikai; Hora and Heure are shocked by Another Zi-O. Swartz and Heure got ice cream together, but I dunno about that.
They seem like they put up with each other more than they're actually working together. Although they do
appear
to have a common goal (at least to Heure and Hora's eyes). We all know Swartz is pulling the strings. But for what, we don't know.
The story seems like we're gonna get some backstory for all three Jackers soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
Build and other shows had it flaws near the end with mvoie tie in and expectation differentiation, but there were moe stakes and struggles. You feel the cast slowly and rapidly gaining power to compete against one and another.
Yeah.
And Sougo's struggle is against a horrible future 90% of the cast have experienced, that he himself caused.
Geiz's initial fight (up until Revive) was a conflict with his moral compass; kill an innocent for his future crimes or see if he can change.
Tsukuyomi's got three dilemmas that I can see; one with Sougo becoming Oma via Zi-O II, potentially making her attempt to change him for naught; the other involved her powers potentially making her a Time Jacker, the dudes they've been fighting all this time; and the shocker that she has amnesia and was apparently siblings with Swartz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
Zio feel like the typically filler motw that recently do a better job at tributes, but the main story is lackluster.
That's your opinion. I think the main story is fantastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
They really got decade back to drag the tsukiyomi storyline since the 20s. We're reaching 40s.
I honestly think ohma zio should of could of been a midseason boss. Time jackers and maybe another 3rd party like ginga could be a bigger fold later on.
Tsukuyomi's backstory didn't start until the mid-30's. Her little arc with Zi-O II and Revive has completed.
I don't think you can exactly kill the ruler of all time when you're at that level of power.
Not to mention, they had other things to worry about, like Sougo and Geiz's big fight to decide which timeline will be the one "currently active". Can't exactly put that on hold to go fight the hero's ultimate form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
The happy go lucky and bland cast + underdevelop trio of time jackers keep getting ourshine by the guest of the week. I'm more intrigue about the guest than the main cast.
Happy-go-lucky? Yep.
Bland? Have you been watching the same show as us?
Sougo is a young dude with grand dreams (hehe). And despite taking the inital blow hard (meeting his future self), he's resolved to stop it. His Mirror Self even mocked him, talking about his way with words and how he effectively convinced Geiz to kill himself beating Another Ryuga.
Geiz is a battle-hardened man who has only known the reign of terror his ruler imposes over him and is sent back to off his younger self. Upon seeing his overlord's less-than-humble beginnings, he begins to wonder if he should do the deed.
He flip-flops between this, ultimately deciding to give him one last chance (episode 15, IIRC) by convincing him to toss his belt.
And even then, when confronted with the split timeline, he hesitates. Sougo's his friend. He wouldn't kill him!
But then he gets Zi-O II, and even Tsukuyomi, who beckoned to spare him at first, is rooting his his blood to spill. His hesitation leads him to believe that Tsukuyomi is dead, which pushes him over the despair event horizon and gives him access to Revive. When Tsukuyomi is revealed to be alive, the trio rejoice and now work towards Sougo's goal.
Tsukuyomi is a hard one to pin down, being that we don't know much about her yet. But she is Swartz's younger sister and both have time-stopping powers. But apparently back in 2008 (IIRC) was Swartz's first time meeting her? There are some timey-wimey shenanigans going on and I can't wait to figure out what.
That's not even mentioning her awesome combat prowess. Not backing down from a monster and actively shooting at them (Another Build)? A slide kick to an assailant (Kasshin)? Even if she doesn't fight much, that's EPIC.
Woz is a wacky hypeman and I love him and he is mine~
Junichiro is the best uncle ever, with his "it's close enough to a clock, I can fix it" gag and his unwavering "uh-huh, sure" parent attitude towards Sougo's wacky adventures ("He's up in space? That far? He's gonna be hungry when he gets back!").
This cast is very quirky and I really, really enjoy them. Just because the show started off slow doesn't make it bad. Also, yeah, the cast is small, but that allows the writers to dole out development evenly, instead of assigning a few traits to everyone and hoping that interactions flesh them out. This cast is good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VoidinToku
The tsukiyomi/Schwartz is so slow at trying to plant seed at this late in the game. They should of reveal the twist during agito arc and raise other mystery and questions instead of dropping or delaying until the end.
The Tsukuyomi twist was kinda hinted at in the opening. Tsukuyomi walks past the Jackers and they all disappear.
In the Agito arc, it was revealed that she has amnesia and some pretty nifty Za Warudo powers. Now, in the Kabuto arc, 'twas shown that she is actually the sister of the leader of the faction she's fighting, but doesn't know more than that.
She's got more usefulness than your typical token female.
_____
Overall, all I can really boil this down to is... You hate Zi-O.
You're watching it because of the past Riders and are hoping the show will get better.
But here we are, near the end of the show, and it still "hasn't improved" in your eyes.
I just think you're watching the show for a reason to hate on it. Not just for the tributes. That's unhealthy; I ruined two friendships because of my rants on Build.
Zi-O isn't for you. And that's okay. But watching the episode and coming into the thread to hate on it isn't. A lot of us like Zi-O and, while we enjoy a good discussion, you seem to leave no doors open. Starting to wonder if you're just trolling us, ngl.
All I've ever seen you do is complain about the show. Say the show has bad writing. Say the cast is worse than any other. Say the forms are given out like candy.
"It's bad and it'll never be redeemed unless it does exactly as I say."
Last edited by MangaArtist18; 06-10-2019 at
12:05 AM
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