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01-13-2021, 11:32 PM | #601 |
I got nothing
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The fact that Hyper Kabuto got it's show debut reversing Kagami's death says everything about the fact that Gattack is no longer their main priority when it comes with selling toys. And that his role in the show is to now be as strong and competent as the show needs at any given moment, which means he's probably going to be jobbing pretty hard to shill Kabuto's final form.
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01-13-2021, 11:37 PM | #602 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
The fact that Hyper Kabuto got it's show debut reversing Kagami's death says everything about the fact that Gattack is no longer their main priority when it comes with selling toys. And that his role in the show is to now be as strong and competent as the show needs at any given moment, which means he's probably going to be jobbing pretty hard to shill Kabuto's final form.
Plus, like, Kagami at least got to keep his Zecter! Can't say that for some of this show's other Riders!
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01-14-2021, 12:37 AM | #603 |
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KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 35
A pretty fun episode that examines a bunch of different kinds of friendships/partnerships, without really solidifying a theme I could get behind. Like, this is a stuffed episode, spending a lot of time catching us up on a variety of semi-connected plots (Hiyori, Tsurugi, Renge, Kageyama, Tendou collecting Zecters) while also introducing the Natives as a new group that has an interest in the conflict between Riders and Worms. It's also a done-in-one episode (or at least, there isn't really a cliffhanger to deal with), so scenes go by at a pretty rapid clip. There's not a lot of room in this episode. It is moving with a purpose. And, again, interesting purpose! It's an episode that's bringing up questions about how friendships can develop in the workplace, and how apprentices can feel a commitment that may not be matched by mentors, and how hero worship creates opportunities to be treated unfairly, and so on. It's bringing up a lot of things, but I'm not sure it's really saying a lot about them. While there's a topic the episode is exploring (Friendships In The Workplace is as succinct as I can make it), there isn't really a theme, or a statement. It's... yeah, it's an episode that's more interested in asking questions than giving answers. It's also an episode dedicated to breaking down what little ego remains in Kageyama, which is... not quite as harrowing as the show would think? It's fun to see him get applauded by Yaguruma for failing so hard, so quickly (Shame Recognizes Shame), but Kageyama's turn to the dark (eyeliner) side just doesn't do as much for me as Yaguruma's did? It's similar to Yaguruma's, in that their core personalities are just being expressed in a lower register. Yaguruma was a guy who desperately needed followers to make him feel like he was doing the right thing, that his words had weight. Kageyama was the consummate beta, a dude who always needed someone to be in charge of him. This PunchHopper/KickHopper dynamic, it's them both playacting as edgy weirdos when they couldn't be more themselves. But the problem is that Yaguruma was always the more interesting of the two. He's the one who had a point-of-view, had a conception of himself. Kageyama is just undisguised envy, hollow sycophancy. Watching Yaguruma run around as Snyder Cut Kabuto is fun because you can see all of Yaguruma's idiosyncrasies creeping out around the edges: how he needs attention; how he wants people validating his methods; how he wants to articulate his worldview constantly, ad nauseum. With Kageyama, he's just grabbing ahold of the only person who isn't actively trying to ignore and/or kill him. I feel like I'm learning more about Yaguruma every time I see him. With Kageyama, there really isn't anything to learn? That said, I had a great time with Kageyama in this episode. If you need to humiliate someone like Kageyama, having nearly everyone in the cast either blow him off (Kagami), manipulate him (Worm Widow), or outright tell him he's the worst (Renge) is probably what you're after. And the episode does not disappoint on that front. It stays largely comedic, having Kageyama orbit Tendou in hopes of getting TheBee Zecter back... until Kageyama snaps, and it becomes the violent denouement of every burned bridge. Watching him briefly consider Oh Wait Wasn't I Super Dedicated To ZECT Once before admitting to himself that it was always about the ability to feel strong, that he was never more than a scared man who was sick of feeling small, I like that? I like that the episode took a breath for that, to cast off (if you will) the remaining shreds of self-deception Kageyama had, forcing him to admit his pettiness, his weakness. Having him go all-in on his worst impulses, and then to have Yaguruma show up with his This Is The Worst Day Of The Rest Of Your Life pep-talk, that's a fun character turn. I'll never love Kageyama the way I love Yaguruma, but I love what their dynamic does for Yaguruma. That final shot of the two of them! Not to ignore the second-best partnership on this show, though: Tendou and Kagami. They're mostly running parallel to each other in this one. Kagami is trying to protect the very knowledgeable Native, Tachikawa, while also enduring a delightful/horrifying (YMMV) Friend Date with Tsurugi. (It is adorable, that's my takeaway.) Meanwhile, Tendou is trying to keep La Salle open with the help of a guy who can't cook and a girl who only just started eating food for the first time in seven years. It is... he has some handicaps here. (Whither Sally, the cafe's ostensible owner?) It's a fun plot for Tendou, despite Renge losing a bit of her edge. (She's not reduced to bumping monsters with her butt, but she's now way more of An Adorable Klutz than her debut episodes.) The best bit for Renge was in the one Tendou/Kagami scene, where Tendou's like I'm Gonna Need That Gatack Zecter Soon and Renge is immediately like Separate Kagami's Head From His Shoulders You Got It Boss. It is hilariously chilling, how quickly she would murder for her new boss. It's a great scene between the two men, made more dramatic for how much the episode keeps them isolated. While last episode's finale made things feel a little more easy-going between them, this episode is firmly planting the flag that Kagami and Tendou are not on the same side right now. There's a grudging acceptance to Kagami, as he realizes that Tendou is going to walk his path, no matter what Kagami says. But it's not the usual caving-in from Kagami, the deference to Tendou's innate genius and certainty. It's an acceptance that there will come a point where he is going to have to fight against Tendou. Right now, it's a disagreement. But someday soon it's going to be a battle. But, like, there's no longer sadness to Kagami's interactions with a determined Tendou. Now there's just anger, and disappointment. I love it, because it feels less like Tendou Broke Bad, and more like two heroic, principled men are going to find themselves in conflict over what is right. It's not a binary Good/Bad struggle, it's got nuance, subtlety. The way the show is dissolving their partnership (when Kagami screams at Kageyama that he's not Tendou's friend!), it's got so much dimensionality to it, so many fun angles to showcase. Seriously, a very fun episode that may not land a solid theme, but definitely has a great premise to explore. A QUESTION Tadokoro has a completely weird moment in this episode, where he's doing his ZECT duty by eating at La Salle. (Is that still a thing, Tendou working for ZECT? I'd've thought he'd've been shitcanned after trying to steal the Hyper Zecter and causing Renge to defect? No? Goro's keeping him on? Or did Tadokoro just not get the memo?) Tadokoro yells at a group of diners for not doing the respectful thing, and immediately eating their food as soon as it's served. I know it can be hard to remember back to the Before COVID times, but do you have any pet peeves when it comes to dining out? Surely nothing that'd cause you to make whatever face Tadokoro was making in this episode...
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01-14-2021, 04:52 AM | #604 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,546
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Boy, do I not remember much of this episode. The next one was much more memorable.
Though to answer the question, whenever I order the fish and chips, I always request that it comes with nothing on the side (unless it comes in a bowl, in which case I can palm it off onto someone who likes that stuff). |
01-14-2021, 07:03 AM | #605 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,410
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This is the second episode of my rewatch where I’ve had to pause the episode because I was laughing too hard. It was the bathing scene, where Tsurugi and Kagami are in the old fashioned Western tub with Tsurugi merrily scrubbing away at a very confused Kagami’s back. Everything about that just cracked me up.
As for the rest, I am always down for an episode that’s focused on torturing Kageyama. We really do get to see the complete breakdown that leads him to the dark path of hopping and punching. I think it works and I agree on how good that last shot of him and Yaguruma is. Also, I will never not enjoy scenes of Yaguruma wandering in to start kicking people and/or Worms. We get the debut of the Natives this time, too, in the form of a character that I completely forgot about. We’ll get a lot more about what their deal is in upcoming episodes. Finally, I do want to say that I’m finding Renge to be more fun and dynamic than I remembered. What happened to Misaki, though? I know she’s still around, but it feels like she hasn’t been here in a few episodes. |
01-14-2021, 07:22 AM | #606 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,713
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By biggest pet peeve when it came to dining out was that time I saw a dead spider in my McDonald's fries.
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01-14-2021, 10:35 AM | #607 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,091
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Quote:
KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 35
A pretty fun episode that examines a bunch of different kinds of friendships/partnerships, without really solidifying a theme I could get behind. Like, this is a stuffed episode, spending a lot of time catching us up on a variety of semi-connected plots (Hiyori, Tsurugi, Renge, Kageyama, Tendou collecting Zecters) while also introducing the Natives as a new group that has an interest in the conflict between Riders and Worms. It’s also a done-in-one episode (or at least, there isn’t really a cliffhanger to deal with), so scenes go by at a pretty rapid clip. There’s not a lot of room in this episode. It is moving with a purpose. Quote:
It’s also an episode dedicated to breaking down what little ego remains in Kageyama, which is… not quite as harrowing as the show would think? It’s fun to see him get applauded by Yaguruma for failing so hard, so quickly (Shame Recognizes Shame), but Kageyama’s turn to the dark (eyeliner) side just doesn’t do as much for me as Yaguruma’s did? It’s similar to Yaguruma’s, in that their core personalities are just being expressed in a lower register. Yaguruma was a guy who desperately needed followers to make him feel like he was doing the right thing, that his words had weight. Kageyama was the consummate beta, a dude who always needed someone to be in charge of him. This PunchHopper/KickHopper dynamic, it’s them both playacting as edgy weirdos when they couldn’t be more themselves.
But the problem is that Yaguruma was always the more interesting of the two. He’s the one who had a point-of-view, had a conception of himself. Kageyama is just undisguised envy, hollow sycophancy. Watching Yaguruma run around as Snyder Cut Kabuto is fun because you can see all of Yaguruma’s idiosyncrasies creeping out around the edges: how he needs attention; how he wants people validating his methods; how he wants to articulate his worldview constantly, ad nauseum. With Kageyama, he’s just grabbing ahold of the only person who isn’t actively trying to ignore and/or kill him. I feel like I’m learning more about Yaguruma every time I see him. With Kageyama, there really isn’t anything to learn? That said, I had a great time with Kageyama in this episode. If you need to humiliate someone like Kageyama, having nearly everyone in the cast either blow him off (Kagami), manipulate him (Worm Widow), or outright tell him he’s the worst (Renge) is probably what you’re after. And the episode does not disappoint on that front. It stays largely comedic, having Kageyama orbit Tendou in hopes of getting TheBee Zecter back… until Kageyama snaps, and it becomes the violent denouement of every burned bridge. Watching him briefly consider Oh Wait Wasn’t I Super Dedicated To ZECT Once before admitting to himself that it was always about the ability to feel strong, that he was never more than a scared man who was sick of feeling small, I like that? I like that the episode took a breath for that, to cast off (if you will) the remaining shreds of self-deception Kageyama had, forcing him to admit his pettiness, his weakness. Having him go all-in on his worst impulses, and then to have Yaguruma show up with his This Is The Worst Day Of The Rest Of Your Life pep-talk, that’s a fun character turn. I’ll never love Kageyama the way I love Yaguruma, but I love what their dynamic does for Yaguruma. That final shot of the two of them! I guess that's fitting for Kageyama though, cause if he claims to be a failure and belongs in Hell, I'm actually willing to believe that. I'm not going to dispute that. Seeing him fall to such depths, it's not that surprising and if ZECT and The Bee Zecter disown him, of course he'll just find someone else to serve under. We may have different receptions to this change but I can't fault your analysis on his and Yaguruma's "character development". They really are very superficial people hiding behind a mask of depressive darkness and despair to look more complicated than they actually are. Quote:
Not to ignore the second-best partnership on this show, though: Tendou and Kagami. They’re mostly running parallel to each other in this one. Kagami is trying to protect the very knowledgeable Native, Tachikawa, while also enduring a delightful/horrifying (YMMV) Friend Date with Tsurugi. (It is adorable, that’s my takeaway.) Meanwhile, Tendou is trying to keep La Salle open with the help of a guy who can’t cook and a girl who only just started eating food for the first time in seven years. It is… he has some handicaps here. (Whither Sally, the cafe’s ostensible owner?) It’s a fun plot for Tendou, despite Renge losing a bit of her edge. (She’s not reduced to bumping monsters with her butt, but she’s now way more of An Adorable Klutz than her debut episodes.) The best bit for Renge was in the one Tendou/Kagami scene, where Tendou’s like I’m Gonna Need That Gatack Zecter Soon and Renge is immediately like Separate Kagami’s Head From His Shoulders You Got It Boss. It is hilariously chilling, how quickly she would murder for her new boss.
It’s a great scene between the two men, made more dramatic for how much the episode keeps them isolated. While last episode’s finale made things feel a little more easy-going between them, this episode is firmly planting the flag that Kagami and Tendou are not on the same side right now. There’s a grudging acceptance to Kagami, as he realizes that Tendou is going to walk his path, no matter what Kagami says. But it’s not the usual caving-in from Kagami, the deference to Tendou’s innate genius and certainty. It’s an acceptance that there will come a point where he is going to have to fight against Tendou. Right now, it’s a disagreement. But someday soon it’s going to be a battle. But, like, there’s no longer sadness to Kagami’s interactions with a determined Tendou. Now there’s just anger, and disappointment. I love it, because it feels less like Tendou Broke Bad, and more like two heroic, principled men are going to find themselves in conflict over what is right. It’s not a binary Good/Bad struggle, it’s got nuance, subtlety. The way the show is dissolving their partnership (when Kagami screams at Kageyama that he’s not Tendou’s friend!), it’s got so much dimensionality to it, so many fun angles to showcase. Seriously, a very fun episode that may not land a solid theme, but definitely has a great premise to explore. I've had some bad experiences dining out. Like a waitress acting condescending to me and deliberately screwing up my order more than once. Some places don't even fold the napkins properly!
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01-14-2021, 12:42 PM | #608 |
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Posts: 1,290
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Sure, but... it doesn't matter to the story if Another Tendou exists yet? Tendou and Kagami have no idea who the man in the iron mask is. The story isn't about Who Is This Mystery Man, it's about finding Hiyori.
I honestly don't even know what we're arguing about here! I have totally lost the thread of this discussion. Sorry! Quote:
KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 35
Like, this is a stuffed episode, spending a lot of time catching us up on a variety of semi-connected plots (Hiyori, Tsurugi, Renge, Kageyama, Tendou collecting Zecters) while also introducing the Natives as a new group that has an interest in the conflict between Riders and Worms. It’s also a done-in-one episode (or at least, there isn’t really a cliffhanger to deal with), so scenes go by at a pretty rapid clip. There’s not a lot of room in this episode. It is moving with a purpose. Quote:
It’s also an episode dedicated to breaking down what little ego remains in Kageyama, which is… not quite as harrowing as the show would think? It’s fun to see him get applauded by Yaguruma for failing so hard, so quickly (Shame Recognizes Shame), but Kageyama’s turn to the dark (eyeliner) side just doesn’t do as much for me as Yaguruma’s did? It’s similar to Yaguruma’s, in that their core personalities are just being expressed in a lower register. Yaguruma was a guy who desperately needed followers to make him feel like he was doing the right thing, that his words had weight. Kageyama was the consummate beta, a dude who always needed someone to be in charge of him. This PunchHopper/KickHopper dynamic, it’s them both playacting as edgy weirdos when they couldn’t be more themselves.
But the problem is that Yaguruma was always the more interesting of the two. He’s the one who had a point-of-view, had a conception of himself. Kageyama is just undisguised envy, hollow sycophancy. Watching Yaguruma run around as Snyder Cut Kabuto is fun because you can see all of Yaguruma’s idiosyncrasies creeping out around the edges: how he needs attention; how he wants people validating his methods; how he wants to articulate his worldview constantly, ad nauseum. With Kageyama, he’s just grabbing ahold of the only person who isn’t actively trying to ignore and/or kill him. I feel like I’m learning more about Yaguruma every time I see him. With Kageyama, there really isn’t anything to learn? Quote:
That said, I had a great time with Kageyama in this episode. If you need to humiliate someone like Kageyama, having nearly everyone in the cast either blow him off (Kagami), manipulate him (Worm Widow), or outright tell him he’s the worst (Renge) is probably what you’re after. And the episode does not disappoint on that front. It stays largely comedic, having Kageyama orbit Tendou in hopes of getting TheBee Zecter back… until Kageyama snaps, and it becomes the violent denouement of every burned bridge. Watching him briefly consider Oh Wait Wasn’t I Super Dedicated To ZECT Once before admitting to himself that it was always about the ability to feel strong, that he was never more than a scared man who was sick of feeling small, I like that? I like that the episode took a breath for that, to cast off (if you will) the remaining shreds of self-deception Kageyama had, forcing him to admit his pettiness, his weakness. Having him go all-in on his worst impulses, and then to have Yaguruma show up with his This Is The Worst Day Of The Rest Of Your Life pep-talk, that’s a fun character turn. I’ll never love Kageyama the way I love Yaguruma, but I love what their dynamic does for Yaguruma. That final shot of the two of them!
Horrible people getting the treatment they deserve from other character is something that pleases me, whenever that character is liked (ex: Ryuki's Asakura whom everyone contemps and is fully infamous, Ex-Aid's Kuroto where after revival where everyone's still on sour note regarding him; never change Kuroto... AND the cast) or not by me or fandom. It'd get on my nerves if those character and their negatives gets approved and treated as ideal/paragon in-universe, unless for story purpose (a villain had to have and keep good publicity for the story to work). But probably Kageyama got that treatment primarily because of how incompetent he is, while those that are as bad as him, if they're an accomplished person, can get free from this treatment easier than Kageyama. Quote:
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A QUESTION
Tadokoro has a completely weird moment in this episode, where he’s doing his ZECT duty by eating at La Salle. (Is that still a thing, Tendou working for ZECT? I’d’ve thought he’d’ve been shitcanned after trying to steal the Hyper Zecter and causing Renge to defect? No? Goro’s keeping him on? Or did Tadokoro just not get the memo?) Tadokoro yells at a group of diners for not doing the respectful thing, and immediately eating their food as soon as it’s served. I know it can be hard to remember back to the Before COVID times, but do you have any pet peeves when it comes to dining out? Surely nothing that’d cause you to make whatever face Tadokoro was making in this episode…
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01-14-2021, 01:43 PM | #609 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
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This is the second episode of my rewatch where I’ve had to pause the episode because I was laughing too hard. It was the bathing scene, where Tsurugi and Kagami are in the old fashioned Western tub with Tsurugi merrily scrubbing away at a very confused Kagami’s back. Everything about that just cracked me up.
It was so great. I wish it was more than just Hey Don't Forget That Tsurugi Needs His Zecter Back Or He'll Turn Into A Monster, but it's an enormously fun scene regardless. Quote:
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For Kagami, he's way less able to compartmentalize. He's got Very Big Feelings, not A Series Of Small Feelings. His friendship with Tendou can get chipped away at by Tendou's single-minded goal of saving Hiyori, regardless of how anyone else might suffer. It's making Kagami start to regret all of the latitude he's given Tendou, all of the support. He's tried reasoning with Tendou, pleading with him, but Tendou's adamant. It's making Kagami feel unappreciated, even disrespected. I don't really think this is Tendou having a teachable moment with Kagami. It's just two friends having a fundamental disagreement over what to do next, and they can't reconcile their differences. Tendou's able to disagree without feeling like he's being a bad friend, while Kagami sees Tendou's rejection of his argument as a rejection of him. Friendships are tough! Quote:
Really? Yeah, at first glance, probably Yaguruma is the leader here, while Kageyama is the follower here, just like usual in the past where the former is Shadow leader and the latter being one of its members (and suck hard as a leader). But it won't be fully that way actually. And from before, this is what I mean for Yaguruma's negative traits later, where he had no qualms of attacking his former colleague at ZECT (he leads them too, not only Kageyama). Also in this thread Kageyama's seemingly the only Kabuto character who doesn't get love from others here anyway.
And I wouldn't expect Kageyama's role as PunchHopper to not inevitably have some friction with Yaguruma. Kageyama's a guy who craves the leash, but eventually begins to chafe from it. He likes having someone to follow, someone who will value his dedication and obedience, but eventually he starts to desire their respect, but he's so pathetic that he can't earn it. That's when it all starts to fall apart for Kageyama.
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01-14-2021, 03:18 PM | #610 |
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I think I should mention that this episode and the last had the HBV released in between them. I assume that’s planned for relatively soon
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