[StardustWhip]

- I like that Baku is starting to ask questions of Zero, even if he does ultimately comply with the assassination orders once Zero orders him to just focus on the mission. Between this and the subsequent flashbacks, it seems like the recent revelations are starting to get to Baku, as much as he wants to keep on being the heroic (and obedient) CODE agent.

- Feels weird to see Zero in the bedroom part of Baku's bedroom...

- New theory based on this bizarro cram school is that CODE has been grooming lucid dreamers to be potential future agents; of the sleeper agent variety where they lay dormant until activated.

...I was about to comment on the pun until I remembered this show is Japanese...

Anyway, now I'm wondering if Baku would've even wanted to be a secret agent had it not been for the CODE Cram School. Like, did CODE mold Baku into the secret agent superfan he is now? Or was his adoration of secret agents just something that made him even easier for them to manipulate?

- Nox's shadowy formless Nightmare definitely feels like it's either the thing keeping him comatose, or the thing that'll grant him full-on Rider powers once defeated. Or both. Both is an option.

- I like the idea that, if Capsems are the power of bad dreams, Baku is getting his first ever Super Form via harnessing the power of his own bad dream; his very first bad dream, even!

- Baku seems like he's in a darker place this episode... both literally and also figuratively. Besides the aforementioned assassination orders, there's how he shoved aside Nem and Little Baku after declaring he'll "use anything" to put an end to his bad dream, and now once he's in Nox's dream he just dismissively tells Nem to play the role she was given. And barely smiling or expressing any emotion after he gets his order from Zero. It's a far cry from the happy-go-lucky nice guy Baku of before.

- Anyway, as for that Super Form, I must say I quite like Zeztz's Plasma Form. The golden suit looks cool, and I really like the lightning and super speed powers; in general, and including here. I was gonna compliment it on being a Super Form that doesn't come with a shiny new toyetic weapon, but then he broke out the bow. That said, I do also really like bow weapons, so that's just another win! And I am glad that he relies on fisticuffs just as much as his shiny new toyetic weapon.

- Nox give a clear answer to literally any question challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

- Minami is definitely (rightfully) a lot more suspicious about Zero than her brother is, and willing to stand up to him. The way she's demanding to know what Zero has him doing, and then straight up slapping Zero before telling him off for trying to make her kindhearted brother into a murderer. Honestly it made my jaw drop when she did that, more than anything else in this episode. Like, cool as the Plasma Form fight was, it takes some serious guts to walk up and slap a big strong secret agent robot.

Though, Zero's not technically wrong that these kinds of dirty missions are just a part of the secret agent world that Baku loved so much...

(That said, I am still 100% on the "CODE is evil" train, and even more than I already was after this episode.)

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StardustWhip

(That said, I am still 100% on the "CODE is evil" train, and even more than I already was after this episode.)

Given that Toei tried it before somewhat in Kamen Rider Build (in this case, the mentor being evil), I don't mind the idea being revisited.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StardustWhip

Anyway, now I'm wondering if Baku would've even wanted to be a secret agent had it not been for the CODE Cram School. Like, did CODE mold Baku into the secret agent superfan he is now? Or was his adoration of secret agents just something that made him even easier for them to manipulate?

Considering that lightning strikes him while he's carrying a spy manga, I'm leaning toward the second option. Although it's unknown how long he attended prep school before that, so it would be good to see some other agents/students for comparison

[DreamSword]

When it comes to the situation around CODE, all I'll note is that I'm not convinced that they're entirely evil. Shady, sure. But I'm willing to wait for an eventual big reveal rather than call anything about them outright.

[ThirstMcGurst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

When it comes to the situation around CODE, all I'll note is that I'm not convinced that they're entirely evil. Shady, sure. But I'm willing to wait before an eventual big reveal rather than call anything about them outright.

I can definitely understand that. Maybe they are not entirely evil, but are about "the end justifies the means", similar to Nox.

I really enjoyed this episode and seeing Baku finally questioning everything is a weird relief? I don't know how to explain it at this moment, but I'm glad that he actually somewhat gave himself time to really consider the situation. And sure, it came at the cost of him going deep into his subconscious via black hole, but it also gave us a view of his childhood.

Could Baku be a sleeper agent that is awakened when CODE needs a job or two done? Perhaps. Could his designation as Number 7 indicate that there were prior agents, other than Odaka? I could see that. I can also see Baku pushing back enough where Zero has another agent waiting to take over the missions.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirstMcGurst

I can definitely understand that. Maybe they are not entirely evil, but are about "the end justifies the means", similar to Nox.

Speaking of NOX, I'd like to expand a bit on my theory about the three once-united, now-separated entities. Nightmare-Darkness, briefly shown in the episode, is the main fear and enemy of Odaka?the main, human, and emotional part of the trinity. Zero, on the other hand, is pure logic, and after separating from Odaka, he begins to fight Nightmares without regard for the consequences, focused solely on completing missions. NOX, on the other hand, is a practical agent whose job it is to protect Odaka by carrying out Zero's missions. But when the trinity broke apart, he became completely focused on awakening Odaka, which was necessary to save him from the Darkness. That's why he's willing to literally destroy the world if only he could awaken Odaka and thus save him from the Darkness. This could also explain the reluctance to explain anything, since the agent is supposed to learn information, not share it. It's entirely possible that, as a created personality, it knows little itself and is guided only by simple axioms, such as: "Darkness is evil," "Zero is a traitor," "We must wake up at any cost."
Of course, this is just a theory, and it doesn't explain why NOX himself is #4. I'm probably wrong in making Zero part of the trinity and he is an external force. Still, if NOX isn't identical to Odaka and only vaguely understands what he's doing, it could explain his extremely contradictory actions.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

I felt like Baku took a rather dark turn this week and I'm not sure how intentional it was? Shoving Nem aside in a bid to save "himself" and then going after NOX with a level of aggression that genuinely felt like he planned to kill him if his transformation hadn't given out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StardustWhip

Baku seems like he's in a darker place this episode... both literally and also figuratively. Besides the aforementioned assassination orders, there's how he shoved aside Nem and Little Baku after declaring he'll "use anything" to put an end to his bad dream, and now once he's in Nox's dream he just dismissively tells Nem to play the role she was given. And barely smiling or expressing any emotion after he gets his order from Zero. It's a far cry from the happy-go-lucky nice guy Baku of before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Baku, meanwhile, is facing various truths head on, and chooses to instead try and channel his personal darkness into something better. I think it's rather telling that rather than follow his mission to a T and kill NOX outright, Baku instead disables his target and demands answers out of him. He doesn't want to be in a never ending dream, regardless of how much he embraces the ideal of being a secret agent. He's a dreamer, but he's not delusional.

It really is interesting how I keep seeing people filling in the blanks of Zeztz episodes in such wildly different ways. For the record, I think DreamSword is right on the money with this one? The way that scene smartly plays off an established catchphrase by having Baku saying "arise" right before the lightning strikes especially gives it a rare level of clarity in this show. He wasn't shoving Nem aside there, she falls over as a consequence of what Baku is actually doing, which is helping his younger self to his feet. Baku helps his younger self stand tall against his fear rather than cower in terror, all in the name of waking up. It tracks with the larger decision he's making to embrace the power of bad dreams, and is even cohesive with a lot of what made me love the premiere so much. It's pretty much exactly the kind of moment I want to see from Zeztz more often?

That being said, I do still see how all of this might not come across, because as usual, I also personally feel a lot of this ends up muddled?

There's a lot you're left to assume, even though assuming things usually just gets, well, at least it seems to get *me* in trouble with this show. For example, it's pretty vague how exactly Baku even ended up where he is at the start? They don't spell it out very thoroughly, but like, it's ~probably~ safe to assume between the previous talk of Capsems being affected by his mind and Baku's early line here about his mind testing him that his own lingering doubts are what caused him to lose control of that black hole?

So like, that's the kind of stuff you have to deal with from the word go in Zeztz, and that feeling carries right through to the climax, where it's difficult to properly square Baku's newfound determination to get answers from NOX with his simultaneous decision to embrace the role given to him in NOX's dream, which is killing NOX? Speaking of smart direction choices in this one, how about that moment where the Nightmare appears behind NOX's shoulder, only for him to look back and see Baku? It's kinda like Baku *is* the monster coming for NOX...but Baku also brings light to the darkness surrounding him. As if Kamihoriuchi recognized the contradiction and just decided to emphasize both parts visually at the same time. Which is pretty brilliant, if that's the idea, but because this is Zeztz, trying to get a better understanding of what's happening by reading into it deeper ultimately leaves me at least as confused as I was beforehand.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

So I see Zero's just straight up leaving the entryway open now. Imagine if Fujimi and Nasuka actually came back.

It's cool to see how the two sets, Baku's bedroom and the CODE base, just exist next to each other like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

NOX thought he was done with one Nightmare but he wasn't prepared for Zeztz. Enter INAZUMA PLASMA! A form with a shocking entrance, superspeed that rivals the Flash, and a Plasma Bow that can do a lot of damage! Finally Zeztz catches up to Nox Knight!

Man, I really love super speed upgrades like this! With the mysterious rainy backdrop as well, this episode reminds me a lot of Build RabbitTank Sparkling's debut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

Oh, so they do the pre and post-show teasers now!

I only saw the "brought to you by key to fun Bandai" part once before when I watched the first episode RAW, so I was surprised to see it in the official stream!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

And part of the process of me coming to terms with the feelings that bad dream represented was done via me taking inspiration from that dream to make into one of my OCs. In other words, channeling the nightmare into something more positive. And that's exactly what Baku does here. And has been seen with NOX(and apparently, CODE)'s' tendency to "erase" things; If you run from the problem, that typically only holds things off for a little while, if not makes them outright worse.

NOX's' personal fears are what hold him back from being able to return to reality; keeping him in the dramatic irony of the exact thing he accused Baku of. Baku, meanwhile, is facing various truths head on, and chooses to instead try and channel his personal darkness into something better. I think it's rather telling that rather than follow his mission to a T and kill NOX outright, Baku instead disables his target and demands answers out of him. He doesn't want to be in a never ending dream, regardless of how much he embraces the ideal of being a secret agent. He's a dreamer, but he's not delusional.

That's a great mature and healthy reaction to adversity. Trauma only wins if we don't take the inspiration to learn and grow from it. Nox would rather wage war against evil, by committing more evil, than use the evil for good. Which is why he's stuck, literally, in his past, fighting a Nightmare who's untouchable as long as he denies its root in his mind. How pitiful that a lucid dreamer would inhibit himself like this. Shows that even with the difference in experience, Seven beats Four in natural talent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

i really enjoyed Gavv but i appreciate the different approach Zeztz is taking. its more restrained and serious (but not super serious). also doesn't feel like its constantly trying to sell me toys.

I mean, Kamen Rider Zeztz is pretty serious, sure, but I think human trafficking drug dealers was also serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirstMcGurst

I can definitely understand that. Maybe they are not entirely evil, but are about "the end justifies the means", similar to Nox.

Yeah, while CODE seems ruthless and ethically questionable, we should expect that from an organization of agents. As Zero tells Minami, Baku knows the unpleasant side of the job and he's prepared to eliminate the enemy, as an agent would. After all, CODE's enemies aren't going to play fair, so they can't afford to either. Reminds me of when Ace taught Keiwa this important moral in Geats Episode 2, which some people mistook for malice. Sometimes a moral is best learned and remembered the hard way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

It really is interesting how I keep seeing people filling in the blanks of Zeztz episodes in such wildly different ways. For the record, I think DreamSword is right on the money with this one? The way that scene smartly plays off an established catchphrase by having Baku saying "arise" right before the lightning strikes especially gives it a rare level of clarity in this show. He wasn't shoving Nem aside there, she falls over as a consequence of what Baku is actually doing, which is helping his younger self to his feet. Baku helps his younger self stand tall against his fear rather than cower in terror, all in the name of waking up. It tracks with the larger decision he's making to embrace the power of bad dreams, and is even cohesive with a lot of what made me love the premiere so much. It's pretty much exactly the kind of moment I want to see from Zeztz more often?

I agree that DreamSword has the better take on this. Baku's excitement from lucid dreaming comes from his desire to take control of his present, in a way that reality denies him. Nem is an empathetic person and naturally comforts the scared kid Baku, can't hold that against her, but Seven understands that this nightmare is something he needs to confront alone, or else he cannot move on and take back control of the dream. Seven will "use anything to end the bad dream", as that's what an agent and a Kamen Rider does. I also like the detail of Seven instinctively knowing there's something he's forgetting, since he "knows his own mind". Even if he can't see the truth hiding in darkness, he won't turn away from it.