[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I did not realize that was a different thing from the Director's Cut of the final two episodes! My fault for assuming that Climax meant, like, the last ones. Whoops!

Given the era and the title I'd have assumed it was some kind of Den-O crossover.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And that's the thing for me: I think this would all make a lot more sense to me if it weren't Ryuusei. The idea of a hotheaded, impetuous loner failing to believe enough in anyone outside of himself that he makes the worst choice in the name of his mission, I would absolutely ascribe that motivation to multiple characters in the cast... just not Ryuusei? (He's not impetuous!) I don't buy Ryuusei getting this deep in following the Anti-Zodiarts plan, and then being like Maybe One Zodiart, As A Treat just before he crosses the finish line.



I did not realize that was a different thing from the Director's Cut of the final two episodes! My fault for assuming that Climax meant, like, the last ones. Whoops!

i agree. the killer should've been shun in his clown costume.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The idea of a hotheaded, impetuous loner failing to believe enough in anyone outside of himself that he makes the worst choice in the name of his mission, I would absolutely ascribe that motivation to multiple characters in the cast... just not Ryuusei? (He's not impetuous!)

How would you describe him flipping out and punching Gentarou despite trying to keep up a tactical false persona then? Unless I'm forgetting something about the full context of that scene, I feel like part of the point of it is to demonstrate that in spite of his best efforts to be cold and calculated, Ryuusei has very passionate emotions that can still get the better of him and make him act in ways that won't end up helping his mission.

Heck, there's even sort of a poetic symmetry going on there, for the back half of his introductory two-parter to have him hitting Gentarou like that, and then having the first half of the two-parter promising a resolution to that storyline end with him hitting Fourze, but scaled up to more climactic consequences.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

How would you describe him flipping out and punching Gentarou despite trying to keep up a tactical false persona then? Unless I'm forgetting something about the full context of that scene, I feel like part of the point of it is to demonstrate that in spite of his best efforts to be cold and calculated, Ryuusei has very passionate emotions that can still get the better of him and make him act in ways that won't end up helping his mission.

Heck, there's even sort of a poetic symmetry going on there, for the back half of his introductory two-parter to have him hitting Gentarou like that, and then having the first half of the two-parter promising a resolution to that storyline end with him hitting Fourze, but scaled up to more climactic consequences.

That's fair! Ryuusei has been known to let his temper get the better of him in triggering moments. I guess my counterpoint here (and I swear I'll stop talking about this; you haven't rewatched it, and this is probably a Me problem in regards to Meteor) is that this isn't Ryuusei losing his temper, or a rash decision Ryuusei's making when no other option presents itself, or where there's no time to consider the ramifications of his choice -- Tachibana has a plan, it's about to come to fruition, and then Ryuusei approaches Aries to figure out if he could revive Jirou, and then Ryuusei opts to murder Fourze in order to get Aries's aid. It's not a split-second thing, or a mounting frustration, it's just a weirdly unreliable and slapdash alternate plan at the last minute? (He really is counting on a Horoscope to honor his word! That seems like a Step 1 mistake!)

[DreadBringer]

Finally catching up to the present episode discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 31 - “THE FIEFDOM OF PLEIADES”

We’re here at what’s nominally (to my limited memory) the conclusion of Ryuusei’s main arc, and it’s probably coming at least two episodes later than I’d’ve liked, with a compelling structure (melodrama and unrequited love and switched roles!) and a heel turn I don’t fully buy. Aries is finally found, and at the same school that Ryuusei transferred from in order to find Aries, which is the kind of dramatic contrivance that Yamada would find delicious. Ryuusei is exposed as Meteor, at precisely the moment where he murders Gentarou, which doesn’t feel like it’s going to do wonders for either identity. It’s a bunch of major plot things happening, and I don’t know that I connected with much of any of it.

I wonder if Meteor Storm is stronger than Fourze Magnet States, or that Fourze obviously just doesn't want to fight him, but it wins their finisher clash, of Meteor Storm Punisher vs Rider Railgun Bomber. Meteor Storm's Limit Break is the same Rider Kick as its base form, nothing different. The attack that killed Fourze is the one-inch punch, not classified as a finisher by Rider system, but wonder if it's stronger than the Limit Break before as it gives explosive power by concentrating all the force from the body in short burst of movement. Gentaro has no hard feelings of being murdered by Ryusei, and just praises Ryusei for being fully honest about what his motivation really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, this is a problem that should be a slam-dunk for Ryuusei: Aries is right there, zero mystery as to his identity, no backup from the other Zodiarts, he’s got Fourze on the scene, and all they have to do is defeat Aries, recover his Switch, and use that to synthesize a cure for Jirou’s hilariously convoluted malady. (I think this is the first time it’s completely spelled out? Jirou activated his Switch, it went haywire for some reason, and it’s stuck in the Switch On position because he’s in a coma and can’t switch it off. This… for sure feels like a health problem the show decided on fairly recently!) But instead of doing the absolute final step in a multiple-month plan that Ryuusei was 100% dedicated to, he gets frustrated, and anxious, and headstrong, and decides to trust Aries over Tachibana, betting on the verifiable actions of an untrustworthy adversary over the uncertain outcome of a trusted ally.

Though Zodiart is about actually corrupting the user, Yamada's the most evil of all Zodiarts, the one that is more vile than Makise. He has Kitazaki vibes by his hair and perhaps behavior, but he seems to act like Gai more than Ouja to toy with people's lives as much as he wants, in his case, by having them play drama, and abuses his at least sleeping power to anyone that ticks him off, making him the tyrant of Subaruboshi. He does have some Kijima-like traits of forcing people to play his game, as well as a conflict with Hayami, but this time Yamada seems to be more dangerous to Hayami than Kijima's casual disobedience. As said above, Mei's actress was a part of Shinkenger, so she got some action by smashing some Dustards with a pipe. Then again, dunno if Tachibana is also fully trustworthy, as he can be really cold and only mission-focused like him ignoring Ryusei and his pleas before when his identity got exposed, where someone mission-focused may think of leaving one to die for the sake of many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That’s the part that sort of lost me? Ryuusei’s strategy here is just, like, impatience. Tachibana has a plan; it’s not a guarantee, but there’s literally nothing to suggest that Tachibana can’t deliver as promised. (Also, I assume this was always the plan? But right this second it’s not good enough for Ryuusei?) Abandoning the plan to date to hope that Yamada – a legit and visible psychopath – will do what he promises, at the cost of Gentarou’s life, is bonkers. If there was no other way, or Tachibana was less certain, or a million other things that’d give Ryuusei some narrative cover for being all I HAVE NO CHOICE, then fine. But he’s just opting to trust Yamada because he can’t risk Jirou’s life, and I just don’t know that he needs to? Jirou isn’t more at risk than he was an episode ago, and the worst case scenario for Tachibana’s plan not working is that there’ll just be another Aries later, right? The Zodiarts still need a full complement of Horoscopes, right? So why the insane gamble?

Perhaps a simple fix should be if Jiro is in actual emergency, or dunno if this'd be portrayed as an actual flaw of Ryusei (but this happens after Ryusei starts to trust the KRC more), but last time, he was shown to be fine yeah. Though dunno about cases like for example Eri in Ryuki too about how long she'd last (where Kitaoka died at the end of series about saving himself and Yui'd die at her 20th birthday). I do feel that Ryusei's one of the stupider one in the common secondary trope of allying with a villain to save a loved one, but it seems that Fourze's perfect reputation along with W or OOO prevents this to be brought up more unlike cases such as Daiji from Revice, or perhaps because the conflict is not dragged on. Ryusei's not proud of killing Gentaro, but he went through it unlike Ren in Ryuki who freed Asakura to learn to kill from him, but he ends up disgusted by him, and what Ryusei did only got his powers taken away, deservingly, by Tachibana, exposing his identity in front of everyone, leaving him defenseless too against Aries.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I wonder if Meteor Storm is stronger than Fourze Magnet States, or that Fourze obviously just doesn't want to fight him, but it wins their finisher clash, of Meteor Storm Punisher vs Rider Railgun Bomber.

I think it's mostly that Fourze's not as keen on defeating Meteor as the other way around-- and Meteor has the element of surprise on multiple levels to keep Gentarou from being able to really fight back --but I feel like the power levels for new forms usually go by the Newest Form Wins rule. Meteor Storm debuted after Magnet States, so it has the edge. If only there was a powerful new Switch that Gentarou has yet to master!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I think it's mostly that Fourze's not as keen on defeating Meteor as the other way around-- and Meteor has the element of surprise on multiple levels to keep Gentarou from being able to really fight back --but I feel like the power levels for new forms usually go by the Newest Form Wins rule. Meteor Storm debuted after Magnet States, so it has the edge. If only there was a powerful new Switch that Gentarou has yet to master!

There is! Switch #39: Stamper!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

There is! Switch #39: Stamper!

He IMMEDIATELY mastered Stamper! And it didn't help him with Meteor Storm at all!