[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I did not realize that was a different thing from the Director's Cut of the final two episodes! My fault for assuming that Climax meant, like, the last ones. Whoops!

Given the era and the title I'd have assumed it was some kind of Den-O crossover.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And that's the thing for me: I think this would all make a lot more sense to me if it weren't Ryuusei. The idea of a hotheaded, impetuous loner failing to believe enough in anyone outside of himself that he makes the worst choice in the name of his mission, I would absolutely ascribe that motivation to multiple characters in the cast... just not Ryuusei? (He's not impetuous!) I don't buy Ryuusei getting this deep in following the Anti-Zodiarts plan, and then being like Maybe One Zodiart, As A Treat just before he crosses the finish line.



I did not realize that was a different thing from the Director's Cut of the final two episodes! My fault for assuming that Climax meant, like, the last ones. Whoops!

i agree. the killer should've been shun in his clown costume.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The idea of a hotheaded, impetuous loner failing to believe enough in anyone outside of himself that he makes the worst choice in the name of his mission, I would absolutely ascribe that motivation to multiple characters in the cast... just not Ryuusei? (He's not impetuous!)

How would you describe him flipping out and punching Gentarou despite trying to keep up a tactical false persona then? Unless I'm forgetting something about the full context of that scene, I feel like part of the point of it is to demonstrate that in spite of his best efforts to be cold and calculated, Ryuusei has very passionate emotions that can still get the better of him and make him act in ways that won't end up helping his mission.

Heck, there's even sort of a poetic symmetry going on there, for the back half of his introductory two-parter to have him hitting Gentarou like that, and then having the first half of the two-parter promising a resolution to that storyline end with him hitting Fourze, but scaled up to more climactic consequences.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

How would you describe him flipping out and punching Gentarou despite trying to keep up a tactical false persona then? Unless I'm forgetting something about the full context of that scene, I feel like part of the point of it is to demonstrate that in spite of his best efforts to be cold and calculated, Ryuusei has very passionate emotions that can still get the better of him and make him act in ways that won't end up helping his mission.

Heck, there's even sort of a poetic symmetry going on there, for the back half of his introductory two-parter to have him hitting Gentarou like that, and then having the first half of the two-parter promising a resolution to that storyline end with him hitting Fourze, but scaled up to more climactic consequences.

That's fair! Ryuusei has been known to let his temper get the better of him in triggering moments. I guess my counterpoint here (and I swear I'll stop talking about this; you haven't rewatched it, and this is probably a Me problem in regards to Meteor) is that this isn't Ryuusei losing his temper, or a rash decision Ryuusei's making when no other option presents itself, or where there's no time to consider the ramifications of his choice -- Tachibana has a plan, it's about to come to fruition, and then Ryuusei approaches Aries to figure out if he could revive Jirou, and then Ryuusei opts to murder Fourze in order to get Aries's aid. It's not a split-second thing, or a mounting frustration, it's just a weirdly unreliable and slapdash alternate plan at the last minute? (He really is counting on a Horoscope to honor his word! That seems like a Step 1 mistake!)

[DreadBringer]

Finally catching up to the present episode discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 31 - “THE FIEFDOM OF PLEIADES”

We’re here at what’s nominally (to my limited memory) the conclusion of Ryuusei’s main arc, and it’s probably coming at least two episodes later than I’d’ve liked, with a compelling structure (melodrama and unrequited love and switched roles!) and a heel turn I don’t fully buy. Aries is finally found, and at the same school that Ryuusei transferred from in order to find Aries, which is the kind of dramatic contrivance that Yamada would find delicious. Ryuusei is exposed as Meteor, at precisely the moment where he murders Gentarou, which doesn’t feel like it’s going to do wonders for either identity. It’s a bunch of major plot things happening, and I don’t know that I connected with much of any of it.

I wonder if Meteor Storm is stronger than Fourze Magnet States, or that Fourze obviously just doesn't want to fight him, but it wins their finisher clash, of Meteor Storm Punisher vs Rider Railgun Bomber. Meteor Storm's Limit Break is the same Rider Kick as its base form, nothing different. The attack that killed Fourze is the one-inch punch, not classified as a finisher by Rider system, but wonder if it's stronger than the Limit Break before as it gives explosive power by concentrating all the force from the body in short burst of movement. Gentaro has no hard feelings of being murdered by Ryusei, and just praises Ryusei for being fully honest about what his motivation really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, this is a problem that should be a slam-dunk for Ryuusei: Aries is right there, zero mystery as to his identity, no backup from the other Zodiarts, he’s got Fourze on the scene, and all they have to do is defeat Aries, recover his Switch, and use that to synthesize a cure for Jirou’s hilariously convoluted malady. (I think this is the first time it’s completely spelled out? Jirou activated his Switch, it went haywire for some reason, and it’s stuck in the Switch On position because he’s in a coma and can’t switch it off. This… for sure feels like a health problem the show decided on fairly recently!) But instead of doing the absolute final step in a multiple-month plan that Ryuusei was 100% dedicated to, he gets frustrated, and anxious, and headstrong, and decides to trust Aries over Tachibana, betting on the verifiable actions of an untrustworthy adversary over the uncertain outcome of a trusted ally.

Though Zodiart is about actually corrupting the user, Yamada's the most evil of all Zodiarts, the one that is more vile than Makise. He has Kitazaki vibes by his hair and perhaps behavior, but he seems to act like Gai more than Ouja to toy with people's lives as much as he wants, in his case, by having them play drama, and abuses his at least sleeping power to anyone that ticks him off, making him the tyrant of Subaruboshi. He does have some Kijima-like traits of forcing people to play his game, as well as a conflict with Hayami, but this time Yamada seems to be more dangerous to Hayami than Kijima's casual disobedience. As said above, Mei's actress was a part of Shinkenger, so she got some action by smashing some Dustards with a pipe. Then again, dunno if Tachibana is also fully trustworthy, as he can be really cold and only mission-focused like him ignoring Ryusei and his pleas before when his identity got exposed, where someone mission-focused may think of leaving one to die for the sake of many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That’s the part that sort of lost me? Ryuusei’s strategy here is just, like, impatience. Tachibana has a plan; it’s not a guarantee, but there’s literally nothing to suggest that Tachibana can’t deliver as promised. (Also, I assume this was always the plan? But right this second it’s not good enough for Ryuusei?) Abandoning the plan to date to hope that Yamada – a legit and visible psychopath – will do what he promises, at the cost of Gentarou’s life, is bonkers. If there was no other way, or Tachibana was less certain, or a million other things that’d give Ryuusei some narrative cover for being all I HAVE NO CHOICE, then fine. But he’s just opting to trust Yamada because he can’t risk Jirou’s life, and I just don’t know that he needs to? Jirou isn’t more at risk than he was an episode ago, and the worst case scenario for Tachibana’s plan not working is that there’ll just be another Aries later, right? The Zodiarts still need a full complement of Horoscopes, right? So why the insane gamble?

Perhaps a simple fix should be if Jiro is in actual emergency, or dunno if this'd be portrayed as an actual flaw of Ryusei (but this happens after Ryusei starts to trust the KRC more), but last time, he was shown to be fine yeah. Though dunno about cases like for example Eri in Ryuki too about how long she'd last (where Kitaoka died at the end of series about saving himself and Yui'd die at her 20th birthday). I do feel that Ryusei's one of the stupider one in the common secondary trope of allying with a villain to save a loved one, but it seems that Fourze's perfect reputation along with W or OOO prevents this to be brought up more unlike cases such as Daiji from Revice, or perhaps because the conflict is not dragged on. Ryusei's not proud of killing Gentaro, but he went through it unlike Ren in Ryuki who freed Asakura to learn to kill from him, but he ends up disgusted by him, and what Ryusei did only got his powers taken away, deservingly, by Tachibana, exposing his identity in front of everyone, leaving him defenseless too against Aries.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I wonder if Meteor Storm is stronger than Fourze Magnet States, or that Fourze obviously just doesn't want to fight him, but it wins their finisher clash, of Meteor Storm Punisher vs Rider Railgun Bomber.

I think it's mostly that Fourze's not as keen on defeating Meteor as the other way around-- and Meteor has the element of surprise on multiple levels to keep Gentarou from being able to really fight back --but I feel like the power levels for new forms usually go by the Newest Form Wins rule. Meteor Storm debuted after Magnet States, so it has the edge. If only there was a powerful new Switch that Gentarou has yet to master!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I think it's mostly that Fourze's not as keen on defeating Meteor as the other way around-- and Meteor has the element of surprise on multiple levels to keep Gentarou from being able to really fight back --but I feel like the power levels for new forms usually go by the Newest Form Wins rule. Meteor Storm debuted after Magnet States, so it has the edge. If only there was a powerful new Switch that Gentarou has yet to master!

There is! Switch #39: Stamper!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

There is! Switch #39: Stamper!

He IMMEDIATELY mastered Stamper! And it didn't help him with Meteor Storm at all!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 32 - “THE SUPER SPACE SWORD”



In the same way that Gentarou can’t find it in himself to hold a grudge against someone who killed him, because he killed him for friendship, I also can’t find it in me to hold a grudge for a story turn I didn’t care for. I just… like, I believe you can get fresh fruit from a rotten tree. I tend not to dwell on why something happened as a series progresses, if the consequences of that development are interesting. I am as Present Tense as Gentarou is, and I think we’re both happier for it.

Along those lines, I was happy enough with the Ryuusei plotline, even if it wasn’t my favorite part of the episode. I like the tragedy of it, that Ryuusei got exactly what he wanted – Jirou’s revived by Yamada, who I guess also likes tragedies enough to let this thing play out, knowing how devastated Ryuusei will inevitably be – but at the cost of his friendship with Jirou. It’s Ryuusei finally realizing that becoming a friendless loner in the name of friendship is kind of an incredibly screwed-up thing to do, and it’s a plan that’s doomed to failure. Seeing Ryuusei immediately contend with his accidental selfishness and villainy, dressed up as dedication and self-sacrifice, is pretty great.

But, man, what an episode this is for Kengo and Gentarou!

I love Cosmic States as a concept. I love the path to get there, what with Gentarou needing to be pulled back from the actual afterlife. Cosmic States is just straight-up the Friendship Switch, harnessing the hard work of the KRC over the last 31 episodes, and the tightness of the bond that was forged as a result. Kengo being the one to take an insane leap of faith, to reach into the unknown for his friend, and to bring that friend back with the strength of the entire Club? So great. So great! It’s a Henshin that the whole Club does together, and it’s as exciting of a moment as anything on the show. It’s a culmination (a Climax, if you will) of everything the Club has been working towards, as well as a confirmation that the real power was the friends they made along the way. I love it all so much.

I hate Cosmic States as a costume. The face looks like a cheap Fourze popsicle, and the chest looks like a Ben Cooper costume. The numbers on the chest are dopey, since they’re just two-dimensional stickers, instead of the gloriously tactile and operable Switches. The angelic choir of the sword is a step down auditorily from the addictively robotic Fourze Driver. The sword is overly complicated, with a deployed-position that looks like a space banana. I hate this thing so much.

It’s like the opposite of what I said to start: rotten fruit from a fresh tree. Where the Ryuusei turn was something I didn’t like that became something I loved, Cosmic States the costume was like a punishment after Cosmic States the concept. But! I am not going to crab about it forever. I will take this time to whine about it, and then we’ll move on. When you care about something and it screws up, if its heart was in the right place, you gotta let it go. That’s a lesson that I was not expecting to need to use so quickly!

[Switchblade]

Yeah, Cosmic States isn't one of my favorites, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Fourze 31-32

In which things get anime as hell.

We're getting closer to the part of the show that I don't remember as well. I'm already seeing some moments where I recalled the main story beats correctly, but got a lot of the smaller details wrong. Obviously I remembered that these are the episodes where Ryusei kills Gentarou and he's subsequently survived by the raw power of friendship. The way it played out was definitely not how I remembered it, though. I forgot that this was also where Ryusei's secret identity got exposed and that we saw the return of a good ol' fashioned Rider ally crucifixion (although it doesn't feel the same without Tachibana Tobei there).

It's a good story arc, though. We finally get to see Ryusei stop hiding his real personality and the development he goes through here is great, culminating in a long delayed friendship handshake. I really liked the scene where he went up against the Zodiart mooks without transforming, although that also made it clear that the Bruce Lee whooping sounds really silly when he's off camera.

We got Cosmic States in this episode, of course, which is a suit I've never been a big fan of. It is, in fairness, better than I remembered, but still a little ugly. I forgot that it could combine Switch powers, although I don't think that's a trick that's going to get used much from here on out. I still think the sword is awful. I really hate Rider weapons that obviously look like giant plastic children's toys, and the rocket sword thing is one of the worst examples of that (not THE worst, that's Specter's stupid grabby-hand staff). I also don't like how Cosmic States' fighting style in its premiere is basically "stand still and throw CGI at things." Fourze's fighting style is so unique and fun that it's disappointing to see less active fight scenes.

There's one other big change with this episode. This is the first appearance of a Horoscope as the Monster of the Fortnight. Cancer wasn't around as long as I'd remembered, but it was still several weeks. From this point on, the Horoscopes are going to basically replace regular Zodiarts because Fourze had an episode limit (as it turned out; I may reminisce about the rumors of Fourze season 2 at some point during this retrospective). I was always disappointed to see what had been major event enemies get turned into regular weekly monsters. This is the big place where Fourze had pacing issues for me.

Anyway, the preview for the next episode shows that it's the Kyoto arc and apparently the debut of two prominent new character who actually stick around for the rest of the series: Leo, who has finally found his way to the main series from the Movie War, and Yuuki's Hayabusa puppet, who... well, let's just say we're about to hit peak Yuuki.

Yeah, my opinion on these episodes haven't really changed. Not the best story, but it's nice to finally have Ryusei's secret exposed so we can finally move on from that plotline.