[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't want to bring Ex-Aid into things

No Blade AND no Ex-Aid?! Man, you really do like this show!

[Androzani84]

Curse Hayami’s sudden but inevitable betrayal!

Okay, I half-lied when saying I had a lot to talk about. It’s mostly getting a chuckle out of how as Gamou is about to kickstart the final stage of his evil plan by opening a black hole so he can meet aliens… Kengo just stops it.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

No Blade AND no Ex-Aid?! Man, you really do like this show!

The things I do for you people!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Okay, I half-lied when saying I had a lot to talk about. It?s mostly getting a chuckle out of how as Gamou is about to kickstart the final stage of his evil plan by opening a black hole so he can meet aliens? Kengo just stops it.

Technically Kengo collapses the black hole, which is kind of Kengo's only move over the last several episodes. He loves collapsing!

[Switchblade]

We're getting into Fourze's endgame now, which is still probably the part of the show that I have the most issues with. I've come to terms with Horoscopes replacing regular Zodiarts as the Monsters of the Fortnight; the show does a good job of justifying the switch from a narrative perspective. I still think the final block of episodes has a real problem with pulling stuff out of its ass that could have been established earlier in ways that felt less abrupt.

There could have been a version of the show where Tachibana told the heroes about the Core Switch and how it was the only thing that could stop the Horoscopes' leader. We could have had the search for that running as a subplot for the back half of the series, with the reveal that it was actually inside Kengo the whole time feeling more like legitimate plot twist than a deus ex machina. Same idea for the Presenters, who never fail to read like "oh fuck, we have five episodes left and we never gave the villain a motivation... um... aliens?"

Not my biggest issue with the ending - that will come next time - but it still brings the final act of the show down in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Fourze 45-46

It feels a little weird to do a split here, since the last four episodes are more or less one long arc. These two episodes are primarily focused on Pisces, though, and I'm already doing the two-episode format so I may as well stick with it.

Okay, so first things first: these episodes end with an ad for the movie and some exclusive Wizard Ganbaride cards. I completely forgot that Ganbaride was a thing. Apparently it's still around, too, albeit under a new name. I'm really amazed that it's managed to last an entire decade.

Secondly, these episodes feel weird. There's something about them that felt a little off, almost like they don't perfectly fit with the rest of the series. It took me most of 45 to figure it out, but I did: the kids aren't wearing their school uniforms. I guess these episodes took place during the Japanese version of summer vacation, because all of the characters are in their civilian clothes. It gives the show this subtly different vibe that makes everything feel just a little bit off.

The plot itself is pretty good. I knew the Hayami fake out was coming this time, but the show still does a good job of making it feel like he really did switch sides. I liked seeing Ran and Haru again, too, although I still think they should have been included more before this point. If I have any issue, it's that these episodes feature a lot of exposition about Gamou's underlying plan and motivations. It's good to know, but it comes out so close to the end of the show that it can't help but feel really rushed. The same goes for all of the Core Switch stuff that's starting up here. That was at least telegraphed a bit earlier, but I don't think it would have hurt the show to start establishing some of this stuff before the last four episodes.

I still wish that we would have gotten more of Ran and Haru between their debut and now. Not every two-parter, just the occasional glimpse here and there to keep them more relevant as the KRC Junior Division. Sure, Hayami would probably still get more focus and Ran would still be a relatively minor part of the plot but she's a fun character with a lot of potential and we should have gotten more of her, damnit.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Same idea for the Presenters, who never fail to read like "oh fuck, we have five episodes left and we never gave the villain a motivation... um... aliens?"

The Presenters are the one thing from the last few episodes that I haven't talked about, mostly because I completely do not give a shit about them. It's some vague thing that Gamou (and, to my knowledge, only Gamou) ever really talks about, so it might as well be I Have To Go Into Space To Fight The Monstars In A Basketball Game for all the impact the concept has on the surrounding narrative or characters. Gamou wants to go into space for evolution reasons and his own infinite ego -- what it is he wants to see or do out there is incidental to the consequences at this point, and I cannot muster up any enthusiasm or curiosity about it.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Gamou wants to go into space for evolution reasons and his own infinite ego -- what it is he wants to see or do out there is incidental to the consequences at this point

What it is Gamou wants to see is an intelligence he believes will finally match his own. What he wants to do out there is meet someone, which probably has quite a bit to do with the narrative of Fourze?

I've had my own gripes with the whole Presenters concept I could get into, some of which actually line up with what you guys are saying, but like, I can definitely see a lot of what it's trying to add to the show.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 46 - “THE ASCENSION OF SAGITTARIUS”

Not fundamentally or anything; again, it’s not like Gen’s going to think he’s wasted his time making friends over the last year just because Amanogawa High was revealed to be a Zodiart factory run by a celestial death cult. But forcing Gen to grapple with the reality of what the administration wanted versus what the students needed, that’s crucial heading into our final episodes. Gamou’s agenda is one based on molding children into useful tools, and pushing the students of Amanogawa High to reach their full potential – which, in this case, was cosmically-powered zodiac monsters, but the metaphor is what we’re really looking at: how well-meaning schools can prioritize educational excellence in ways that maybe push kids harder than they need, in service of cold metrics that are more about the school’s success than the specific outcomes for each of its students. Individual students succeed or fail based on their individual efforts and talents; it’s not like you get a diploma for the entire class, right? Friendship and socialization are things that get in the way of that pursuit to Gamou, because individual success is the only result of merit; pioneers lead the way to greatness, like an astronaut pushing into the needless expanse of space.

Well, obviously, and it's always seen as a good thing to push kids harder, it's constantly told there that you have to work hard and always study so you'd be successful later. It'd be hard too to refute that if there's a 'limit' on how needed it is for the kids to push hard. I rather feel that school institution operated like Kekera regarding misery builds character, and the one who isn't are just deemed as having thin skin, the students would be the easy scapegoat for the school if they fail, so that the school doesn't need to re-evaluate themselves. Them being well-meaning also expects the students and society to owe them and get hero worship treatment, which means they can never be in the wrong and should never be questioned. Otherwise, yeah, it should be obvious on why there are no teachers or cops who act against AGHS, as Gamou is the head of it and it's only Zodiart factory. The revelation of Sonoda being one of the Horoscopes is meant for this, about the true nature of the entire school (so Gamou or Sonoda aren't the exceptions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But Kengo’s a refutation of that viewpoint, which is why he’s so crucial in this episode. (Not for the Core Switch stuff; still too vague to really talk about yet, even if it eats up a bunch of this episode.) Kengo’s someone who pushed himself and closed himself off, pursuing his goals with ruthlessness and unwavering dedication. But he didn’t really succeed until he opened himself up to friendship and collaboration – not because of the usual thing of sharing burdens or acknowledging other viewpoints, although that’s definitely a part of it, but because being happier from friendship allowed him to care more about what he was doing, and find that extra level of achievement that he’d never have found by grinding out his persistence in the dark. Like, friendship doesn’t diminish success because it’s shared, it enhances individual drive by pursuing different goals together. Gamou sees things as winners and losers, Horoscopes and Zodiarts, his goal and oblivion. But Kengo sees the beauty of friends pushing into the unknown together; links in a chain tethering each other to what matters most, like a birthday gift to keep your keys from getting lost.

Guess it'd depend on what kind of goal someone is working for. Kengo's goal is to continue what his dad left of which would be about protecting the students in AGHS, but obviously, protecting people would require being able to connect with people, thus being able to be more fond of people would drive him better to protect people. Also, it feels that for KRC, they have similar goal, like how Gentaro would protect his friends as well as potential friends (other people), with Kengo wanting to do that as continuation of his dad, or Miu thinking it's Queen's duty to look after the school. And I thought for last episode, Kengo was being more logical than ever despite what other people said of him letting go of it, where rather than being hostile or mad at other people, though understandably, like before, he questioned Hayami about the needed info, which leads to Hayami giving various intel to the KRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don’t love the reveal of Hayami’s duplicity, even if it’s a hundred times more believable than Hayami actually reforming out of a sudden bout of guilt. It’s a plan that requires Hayami spilling tons of revealing secrets about Gamou’s plan that aren’t what I’d consider strictly necessary, operational security-wise, but mostly there so that the audience can get the dots connected for them in time for the finale. (I just… couldn’t Emoto have told them all this a few episodes ago? It would’ve come from a guy who genuinely was try to atone for some of his sketchier choices, and Hayami could’ve still done his fake-out plan, just without needlessly volunteering so much intel.) And then Hayami dies, sacrificing himself for a guy he wanted to escape from a few episodes ago and did not want to die for, but now dies while saying See I Was Good Wasn’t I Good Tell Me I Was Good while Gamou posthumously praises him for being a timely shield and a B- employee. It’s funny, Gamou not caring about this dude even at the very end of his arc, but it didn’t really add up to much, and it still felt slightly out of character for Hayami to be all-in on Gamou after the last dozen episodes.

Gai's redemption in Zero-One was also what's seen as having a sudden bout of guilt (for a far grander scale of crimes). I guess Emoto tried to tell Kengo that (he teleported only them together), but he was already dying before he can utter the word. Tachibana has seemingly betrayed 3 times in both Kousei Amano's roles here... as well as the revelation that Tachibana was Virgo before. Otherwise, after Ran got some tolerable showing before, this may re-ignite the hatedom for her for being short-sighted to take the Switch to save Haru without a plan, handing herself over to Gamou's plan, while others (an athlete in Shun and a girl in Miu being another one who got thrown by her) including Haru himself is screaming at her not to do it. I don't know about Gamou not caring about Hayami, as for below, Tendou looks out for people like Kagami while dismissing friendship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

(I laughed a lot more at Gen furiously pointing out to Gamou that Hayami sacrificed himself as a friend to the Chairman, so isn’t THAT proof that friendship exists, which is a fundamental misunderstanding of things like Workplace Dynamics and Celestial Death Cults that is also 1000% the way Gentarou, a guy who wanted to make friends with a PC, would see things. It’s dopey and off-base, but he seriously thinks the Horoscopes were Gamou’s friends, like it’s the only word he knows. I think even Amazon could come up with another word to describe the connection between Gamou and Hayami!)

If it happens to any other protagonists, regarding trusting the wrong person, being betrayed, and having thoughts of good deeds being genuine (e.g. risking life or sacrificing due to friendship), they'd be mocked and criticized as being naive and a proof that virtue is weakness. I guess it seems that if someone didn't get direct danger from the person who betrayed them and almost get killed and needing to be saved from (Hayami only punched Gentaro a few times in human form), people wouldn't think they're acting naive. What Gamou said regarding Hayami's death is similar to what Tendou said about how they're the sun, and Tendou also dismissed the concept of friendship, saying that it's only for those who have naive hearts (why is it a surprise that he agreed to kill Tsurugi?).

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I've had my own gripes with the whole Presenters concept I could get into, some of which actually line up with what you guys are saying, but like, I can definitely see a lot of what it's trying to add to the show.

Sure, and I could've been less dismissive about it, but the Presenter scheme (which is a Gamou-only obsession) is super secondary to the Destroying Japan consequences, which is more what I was trying to get at in my post. That said, everyone's spending a lot of time talking about Presenters as a main topic thing in 46, which I find a little rushed and comical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

What Gamou said regarding Hayami's death is similar to what Tendou said about how they're the sun, and Tendou also dismissed the concept of friendship, saying that it's only for those who have naive hearts (why is it a surprise that he agreed to kill Tsurugi?).

It has long been the position of Kamen Rider Die threads that "Tsurugi dies" is an unfortunate, if common, misreading of the text. In actuality, Tsurugi went back home to France, and lived a long life afterwards.