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07-02-2023, 08:20 PM | #621 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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It's not really explained, but I can sort of see how the show got there. I assume that Tamaki and Hana were looking for ways to atone, and it's reasonable that Blue Bird would allow them to help in the rebuilding process as a way of making up for their crimes. (I'd say "the courts" or "the government" would be responsible for determining a commutation of their sentence, but it's literally never been established that there is any higher authority in Japan than Fenix. Daiji and Hiromi gave them a slap on the wrist, I guess!)
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07-02-2023, 09:25 PM | #622 |
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SERIES WRAP-UP
I don’t really want to write the version of this post that most of you probably want to read. I probably should write it, even though I’m not going to. It’s a version that delineates this show’s many failures: the big and the small, the subjective and the objective, the Hikaru and the rest. It’s a version that excoriates this series for the frustrating choices and the missed opportunities and the inconsistent thematic storytelling and the confusing conclusions to epic character arcs. It’s a version that you could piece together from 50+ posts about a year’s worth of toku broadcasting that made up my end of this thread, and I’d frankly rather you just did that. Right now, right this minute, I don’t particularly care about the minutiae of this series, or the steps along the way that were failures. What I got in the end was a lovely, thrilling story of how self-care and self-analysis are as heroic as anything, and how the only way to earn forgiveness is to start by forgiving ourselves. This was a series that mostly annoyed me in its attempts at epic superhero storytelling, but consistently floored me in its thoughtful and passionate defense of the totality of human experience. As a celebration of a franchise that’s spent 50 years arguing for the need to make the darker aspects of ourselves into something that can empower us to do good, I can’t think of a better standard-bearer than Revice. The ways that relationships became less about assigning blame than about allowing for redemption; how accepting yourself in all your complexity was inevitably the last, most crucial step towards a happier tomorrow; the hard battle of acknowledging your flaws and then seeing them as strengths. It’s a show that loves people, even if it didn’t always know how best to convey that love through a year-long weekly superhero TV show. And it’s a shame that it was frequently ill-prepared for those tokusatsu demands, because the core dynamic of this show is one of my absolute favorites. The Igarashi family is one of the best ideas in 50 years of Kamen Rider, and that’s no hyperbole. After dozens of found families and grim loners and All Dads Are Dead, here we are with a happy, functional family. Sure, they’re tested. Sure, they squabble and leave in a huff and sometimes pull guns on each other. But this show starts with a happy family, and ends with a happy family. No one dies. No one runs away. It’s a show that remembered its greatest weapon whenever things got too weird or maudlin or Giff, and Genta said it best: the Igarashi family can do it all. I don’t really know how to make this post make sense to the people who hated Revice. I get it, is I guess the olive branch I can extend. Any criticism you have about the plot, the pacing, even the characterization – I understand where you’re coming from. The story is, overall, not a strength. The non-Igarashi elements of the show mostly come off as placeholders; Better Military Organization And Villains TBD. It’s a series where the story is maybe indefensible. But for me, it’s also a series where the characters are unparalleled. The characters on this show transcended their trappings to make a terrific series, and it’s all because the conflicts were never about monsters and organizations and henchmen and whatever. It’s not a show where the machinations of adversaries were the driving force, and I get why that’s a let down for some folks. I would certainly prefer it if a show was both intelligently plotted and thematically rich! (See: Geats.) But the way every great story from this show was internally generated, either figuratively (Ikki vs Daiji, Kagerou vs everyone, Vail vs everyone) or literally (Vail vs Genta, Daiji vs Kagerou) was what kept me invested in this series. The conflicts were never about defeating a foe, they were always – ALWAYS – about trying to find a way to forgive ourselves for the things we hate about ourselves, and learn to see those things as victories instead of failures. Giff and Fenix are forgettable bullshit; Genta welcoming Vail back into the family after all of its rage and violence is something I will always remember. I wish that part connected with people more, or mattered more in the fandom’s appraisal of this series. It’s nothing that’s going to keep me up at night; I had my experience, you had yours, and we can’t take those away from each other. But there’s a warmth and joy to this series that just seems to have bounced off of folks, in favor of (generally legitimate!) complaints over pacing or lame villains or who got the Demons Driver or whatever. I don’t know. I can’t speak to why this show didn’t work for folks, not really. You’re all more than capable of doing that, of writing this show’s takedown that I couldn’t. I’d like to read it, even if – especially if – I don’t see it myself. All I can see right now is a flawed show that never really knew how to tell a superhero story, but still managed to tell a phenomenal Kamen Rider story. It’s a show with heart, if maybe not enough brains. It was Kamen Rider Revice, and I’m very glad I got to experience it.
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07-02-2023, 09:50 PM | #623 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
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End of the day, I think Revice is fine. There are aspects of it that I like, some that I don't, nothing that I really actively hate. My opinion is probably a little more generous because of Sakura, who I still feel is the most well-realized take on a female Kamen Rider we've had since Zero-One made them a consistent part of each show. If she'd been handled as badly as Yua or, more relevantly, Daiji then I'd probably be a lot more down on the series overall. A strong heroine buys a lot of good will from me, especially in a series like Kamen Rider that tends to undervalue most of the women who strap on a transformation belt.
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07-02-2023, 10:50 PM | #624 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
End of the day, I think Revice is fine. There are aspects of it that I like, some that I don't, nothing that I really actively hate. My opinion is probably a little more generous because of Sakura, who I still feel is the most well-realized take on a female Kamen Rider we've had since Zero-One made them a consistent part of each show. If she'd been handled as badly as Yua or, more relevantly, Daiji then I'd probably be a lot more down on the series overall. A strong heroine buys a lot of good will from me, especially in a series like Kamen Rider that tends to undervalue most of the women who strap on a transformation belt.
But, yeah, Sakura's pretty great. She got multiple story arcs, and they were never about what she thought of some boy, or what some boy thought of her. Also, Cherry-Ish is the best Revice song, and Invincible Jeanne is the best suit.
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07-03-2023, 01:33 AM | #625 |
Filthy SU/FE Trash
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 572
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ok Revice is a weird beast of a show to talk about a frequent problem I noticed with Rider shows is due to being merchandise based they often have to pull random crap to ensure they can keep the line going throughout the year the first half of Revice was shaping up IMO to be up there with Blade and Gaim for me the problem is it REALLY Feels like the writers came up with a story that was meant to be 25-35 episodes long but because it's tied to a toyline got stretched unnaturally to 50 episodes which is a damn shame because the first half was so good and I liked how they actually explored the main characters family (Ryotaro big sister from Den-O was just a walking plot device, and Kouta's big sister in Gaim was just kinda there) and I like the main theme that our flaws make us who we are but again the writer didn't know how to stretch these to 50 episodes so we got some of the worst episodes in the franchise
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07-03-2023, 05:12 AM | #626 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,556
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In my mind, and from what I’ve discerned, some of the big problems with Revice were:
The three fan favourites (Hiromi, Kagerou and Genta) were gone for long stretches of the series. A lot of focus was given to characters who were controversial (Sakura, Akaishi) or downright maligned (Hikaru, Giff). In general, I think the show suffers from having too many characters to adequately focus on in a TV show. Though that seems to be a result of the author primarily being a writer of novels, which can easily devote a paragraph in a chapter to any character, no matter how minor. The show clearly didn’t know how to adequately use its 50 episode plot. We get two different Rider form debuts (Tamaki as Over Demons and Invincible Jeanne) in a single episode, which would be a big no-no in any other show. And given that both are depowered within the next two parter, it makes you wonder why they even bothered leaving it so late. The third arc with Akaishi and Giff. The main issue is see come up is that it dragged out for several episodes of “Heroes come up with a plan, Akaishi has magically anticipated the plan, Akaishi thwarts the plan, Heroes start to come up with another plan”. Given that a lot of stuff near the end of the show was noted to be rushed, I feel they could definitely have had something to work with if they cut this arc down. Retcons. This show suffered from a lot of obvious examples which make it clear the writers had no real faith in their earlier ideas, and gave up on trying to make them work. Granted, there were some things people liked about this show, but rather than lost them out, I’ll just say that I’ve seen pretty much all of them done better elsewhere. Overall, Revice is pretty much my low point for Reiwa Rider and my second lowest point for Rider overall (only Ryuki beats it out, but you probably knew that) |
07-03-2023, 08:46 AM | #627 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
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If I had to say something nice about Revice, then I'd say that I think most of the actors tried their best with the material they were given. The strong emotional performances of Hyuuga Wataru and Hamao Noritaka are the only thing that got me through their late arcs. Vice is an entertaining comedic character, brought to life by the improvising skill of Kimura Subaru and the physical energy of Eitoku. The actors of the Deadmans trio do a great job showing a group of pitiful people who followed the wrong path. The actors of Yukimi and Genta do a great job showing a pair of loving charismatic parents, that somehow ended up with such weirdo kids.
But no matter the acting talent, I can't ignore the many severe flaws with the narrative and character arcs. I mentioned before that something unbelievable about this show is that the sensible choices are easy to see, cliche even, but Kinoshita tries to subvert every twist and turn. Like he wanted Revice to be the next Ryusoulger or something and boy do I love Ryusoulger, but he doesn't consider, "does this actually make sense?" I think this show would've been so much better, if it wasn't trying so hard to be different for the sake of it. The characters can lament, "oh no, Ikki's losing his memories!", all they want, but I can't feel anything. The only part I think came out good was the stuff with Yukimi, Genta and Vail and while I understand why you can't have a bunch of middle-aged people as the main focus of a Rider show, I sure would've preferred it in this case. Overall, Revice is firmly at the bottom of my Reiwa Rider Ranking, but if I compare it to Showa and Heisei as well, I think it's the worst Rider show in general. Layton explained it pretty aptly, that Revice hurts so much due to the way it creates faith in one episode and crushes it in the next, a pattern that repeats over and over again. An intriguing premise tragically diminished by a series of counter-intuitive executions.
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07-03-2023, 11:36 AM | #628 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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I appreciate the quick response to my call for alternate viewpoints on Revice! Y'all did not disappoint!
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Ha ha, I feel like they were the focus of the show, at least as much as anyone else? This was more of an ensemble than even Saber was, where any two characters could claim to be the stars of an individual episode. I love how much Genta and Yukimi contributed to the overall narrative, and (even though I didn't care for them) the grown-ups of Weekend also got big, meaty storylines.
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07-03-2023, 06:01 PM | #629 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I've not seen Revice - I was catching up with Saber and desperately busy with life while it was airing - but I've been in this fandom long enough to know that's it's the new Ghost. Or the new Wizard. Or Zi-O. Or Hibiki Part 2. A show with flaws, yes, but one that people probably overegg because it's recent and the weekly watch is still fresh in the mind. Give it time, and it'll become just another Rider series, one that doesn't have to be the best thing ever week after week, and is allowed to have the good coexist with the bad as one of many past Rider shows that you can choose to revisit.
Also George Karizaki's Rider System is on my Spotify On Repeat right now because it's great, what can I say.
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07-03-2023, 06:48 PM | #630 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Quote:
I've not seen Revice - I was catching up with Saber and desperately busy with life while it was airing - but I've been in this fandom long enough to know that's it's the new Ghost. Or the new Wizard. Or Zi-O. Or Hibiki Part 2. A show with flaws, yes, but one that people probably overegg because it's recent and the weekly watch is still fresh in the mind. Give it time, and it'll become just another Rider series, one that doesn't have to be the best thing ever week after week, and is allowed to have the good coexist with the bad as one of many past Rider shows that you can choose to revisit.
Still, it's a little surprising to me how almost universal the dislike for Revice seems to be? I came into this fandom through Ghost; specifically because watching Ghost was driving me insane. But for as much anger as Ghost engendered, there was honestly a lot of positivity and fun? I came away from that experience with an appreciation for both the show itself, and the way other fans enjoyed the show. I don't feel like that's as much the case for Revice? Or maybe the extra two years of distance Ghost had when I started posting about in 2019 really was the difference maker...
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