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09-01-2019, 05:10 PM | #11 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
Posts: 5,826
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Are you doing the GoRiders series? Because that has some big spoilers for past shows, and as much as I love it, it's pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme, even for the awful movie it's promoing.
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09-01-2019, 06:49 PM | #12 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Yeah, hilariously, typically, it feels totally disconnected from the thing it nominally exists to promote. I really enjoyed it, though! I thought the resolution was incredibly clever (You built a win condition than alerted the one person who could defeat you by just showing up! Kuroto, you are not great at this!), and any chance to spend more time with Baron and Marika and Lazer, I'll take. Hopefully I'll forget about the Blade and Agito stuff by the time I watch those shows. It helps that I have little-to-no context for those characters, so it's tough to know what it might even be spoiling. (Other than, uh, dying at some point, I guess.) Like, I saw Drive show up in that Dr. Pac-Man movie long before I watched his show, and there are definite spoilers for him in the movie, but without knowing about Kiriko or Mr. Belt or the Roidmudes, none of it even seemed spoilery. Does that make sense? I'm trying to say that my ignorance is my spoiler protection for some of this.
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09-01-2019, 10:17 PM | #13 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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KAMEN RIDER EX-AID MOVIES: COLORFUL MANS VERSUS COLORFUL TEENS - THE SPRING MOVIE
Hey, so, can I tell you a secret? I don't want the TokuNation board to know about this, so we're in a total "this stays between you and me" situation. Cool? Okay. I don't think I care about Sentai. Like, at all. I'm not really sure how it works on these boards. Is everyone into everything, Rider and Sentai alike? Are there Rider-only fans and Sentai-only fans? I honestly have no idea. Going on a Toku board and saying "I don't think I care about Sentai" may be like saying "I don't like vowels". Like, nonsense. Insanity. I mean, I never grew up with Power Rangers, so maybe that's part of it? I assume most North American Sentai fans got into the franchise as kids through Power Rangers, then transitioned to the pure, uncut, medical-grade Japanese Sentai programs. Is that right? 'Cause, yeah, for me, I never had that introductory stage. Power Rangers and Sentai, I just never got into. And it feels like, after getting hooked on Kamen Rider, that I shouldn't have a huge problem getting into Super Sentai. They're so similar in so many fundamental ways. They're like dialects of the same language. But, for real, I'm just never that interested in them. Some of it is, and I don't want to get reported to the mods for this, that it feels like the Sentai parts I've seen (crossover episodes, spring movies) are just really, really childish. Like, the casts seem like they got body-swapped with precocious theater kids. Everything is very Big and Broad and Shouted Out To The Back Rows. The problems and drama seem very goofy and wacky, geared around a child's conception of the world. And, I came in to Kamen Rider through Ex-Aid, the show about a bright pink motorcycle man who fights video game disease monsters. I'm not looking for verisimilitude here. But these various colorful teenagers seem like they are one commercial break away from telling me that drugs aren't cool, but studying is. Am I missing some key way to view Sentai? Am I just watching the worst introductions to the franchise possible? Help me out here. Someday, I'm going to run out of Heisei Rider shows to watch for the first time (I ain't doing Showa, too corny for me), and 40-whatever years of Sentai might fill that void in my life. I'm not saying that me and Sentai are enemies forever. There may come a day when I want to love Sentai. (Like, 2021. Not soon.) If every other Rider fan is a Sentai fan, I don't want to be, like, persona non tokusatsu. I want to figure this shit out. All of that is a long-winded way of saying that a) I don't generally love the yearly-ish Rider/Sentai crossover movies, and b) I don't really love this one in particular. First, Rider/Sentai movies are so weirdly constructed, at least the bunch I've seen. Rather than the Rider fall movies that feature two main Riders at least, and possibly two full casts, the crossover movies seem to be built around Who From The Last Few Years Is Available and Who Can We Spare From The Current Shows. Like, the Fourze/Go-Busters one? The main Rider characters are Hina from OOO and Diend from Decade! There's some fun to the randomness of the cast, but it's to the detriment of a cohesive story. I never get the feeling that a story was constructed, with a clear thematic goal, and then a cast was hired to support that goal. Instead, it's like 75% of the asks came back No, so they cobbled together something for the 25% who said Yes. It's not that you can't tell a story like that, but it's very difficult to tell a good story. The most you can do is distract people with a lot of costumes. And there are so many costumes in this movie. Not the most, but what feels like the most often. Every few minutes (of a ninety-minute movie) there's another batch of colorful suits, kicking and punching and exploding. The action is, it's not great. There are some interesting uses of the expanded movie budget in the camerawork, specifically in the increased verticality of the fights and the longer chase shots. But the fights themselves mostly don't seem choreographed to tell a story, they're just there to fill time. It's like watching someone play Street Fighter for a while. That can be fun to watch, but it's not a story. Maybe I'd care more about those costumes if I knew all the franchises? Maybe. It doesn't help that, not only do I not really know Sentai (although I recognized Amu from the Ghost/Animal Teens Super-Hero Dance Program crossover), but the Rider appearances were from shows I haven't watched yet, like Den-O and (I had to look this up) Ryuki. For the flashy, nostalgia guest appearances, there's nothing in there for me. I've only got the story to enjoy, and it felt real thin. It's mostly a pile of superhero fights until Shocker shows up, then a heartfelt speech, and it all wraps up at Kamen Rider Quarry. There aren't a lot of moves in it, and the Shocker stuff just feels like it's there to have a villain to punch. Making the story driver/endangered victim a child who sort-of didn't care if the world ended was, uh, a way to go? Hard to muster sympathy for a sick child who would rather just destroy the world because he's bored. I mean, it's a sick kid, and maybe he's on the spectrum, but he was also the character in the story I cared the least about. It definitely made parts of the story drag. There was some stuff I enjoyed, though. I didn't hate it, I just thought it was only okay. The core of the story was, surprisingly, about Brave. He's a tough character to focus on, because he is basically a dick. And that's his most interesting attribute! Hiiro doesn't hugely change or grow in this movie, but his dedication to being the best doctor evolves a bit with his grudging acceptance that Emu is only mostly a failure as a doctor, and maybe viewing his patients as more than a sack of organs he can show his dominance on is a valid choice on rare occasions. Progress! Also, I'm loving the movie trend (2 for 2) of Taiga being introduced walking into frame and just humiliating a group of enemies. It is canon that he spends a lot of time following around Emu, and while we're meant to think it's so he can collect Gashats, I'm choosing to believe it's so he can get sick burns in on foes. Like, he's behind a pillar, waiting for the best moment when he can walk in and drop some comeback on a Bugster or Sentai or whatever. He's up all night dreaming about it. That is my headcanon, and now you are welcome to it.
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 10-13-2023 at 05:10 PM.. |
09-01-2019, 11:44 PM | #14 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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You basically described all the taisen movies. They're especially thin on stories and especially abundant on over-the-top action cramming in as many suits and shoehorned-in cameos as they can. My favourite of them is the Grand Prix one with Drive and Sangou, but that's not a great achievement. (It lead to the Yongou special though, which I liked a lot.) The Ex-Aid and Kyuuranger one was the last of these and I'm not sad to see them go, the budget is probably better spent elsewhere.
Also don't worry, I don't think anybody is going to lynch you for not liking Sentai! Even though these movies are hardly a good introduction to the franchise, I don't think you're too far off from how those shows work. Sentai as a whole is much more formulaic and even the most plot-focused seasons are more episodic than the average modern Rider show (I don't consider this a flaw, but it personally makes binge-watching them less appealing to me). That said, plenty of them, even the goofiest ones, have their moments of seriousness and deeper pathos. I'm sure you'll get thrown recommendations for Sentai eventually that will just be people asking you to watch their favourite shows (I was this close to just yelling 'hey watch the one that makes up my avatar') but it's fine either way, whether you eventually find something to stick with in the franchise or if you're a Rider fan first and foremost. I don't have much to say about the movie other than gigantic Ex-Aid is funny, and I'm glad it at least led to the Go-Rider miniseries. |
09-02-2019, 06:01 AM | #15 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Yeah, I really don't think anyone around here is going to police you for not being into Super Sentai (there are plenty of people who fit into any combination of liking Sentai and/or Rider), and like FreshToku said, you aren't off in your assumption that they tend to be more "childish" all around, since that seems to be Toei's way of keeping the franchises feeling different nowadays.
However, I would ask you to remember one thing about the Super Hero Taisen movies before you totally write the entire franchise off: Quote:
Of course, you've got plenty of Rider still left to work through, so I'll get things back to the subject at hand by saying I'm sorry for any whiplash you endured having the misfortune of watching Chou Super Hero Taisen directly after Heisei Generations.
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09-02-2019, 06:47 AM | #16 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,934
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As far as Sentai goes--one thing to keep in mind is that while there are definite tonal differences and just overall different structure to the shows, there's actually a fair bit of overlap between the staffs that make them. It's not huge overlap, but writers and directors don't necessarily stick to only one franchise. So if you're ever interested in checking out a Sentai, it may be worth looking into whether the people behind Riders you enjoyed have also worked on some Super Sentai seasons. For an example, I lurked the Ghost topic, and I noticed for instance that you really liked OOO--OOO's writer has also penned a number of Sentai seasons, and you'll find similar strengths in those shows even though the formula and overall dynamics of the series are much different. So that's just a thought. Still, I'm also far more of a Rider fan and have waded only ankle-deep into the ocean that is the Super Sentai franchise myself. Especially with such a huge catalog of series in either franchise, I can totally understand the disinterest--I myself basically only started looking into Sentai seasons when my Rider watching hit a wall (lack of subs, mainly). But as Fish Sandwich said, as formulaic and child-oriented as it may appear, there's actually a lot of variety there. So just to echo some previous points--don't write it off just yet, but also certainly don't feel like you have to watch it. |
09-02-2019, 07:54 AM | #17 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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You basically described all the taisen movies. They're especially thin on stories and especially abundant on over-the-top action cramming in as many suits and shoehorned-in cameos as they can. My favourite of them is the Grand Prix one with Drive and Sangou, but that's not a great achievement. (It lead to the Yongou special though, which I liked a lot.) The Ex-Aid and Kyuuranger one was the last of these and I'm not sad to see them go, the budget is probably better spent elsewhere.
Quote:
Also don't worry, I don't think anybody is going to lynch you for not liking Sentai! Even though these movies are hardly a good introduction to the franchise, I don't think you're too far off from how those shows work. Sentai as a whole is much more formulaic and even the most plot-focused seasons are more episodic than the average modern Rider show (I don't consider this a flaw, but it personally makes binge-watching them less appealing to me). That said, plenty of them, even the goofiest ones, have their moments of seriousness and deeper pathos.
Quote:
I'm sure you'll get thrown recommendations for Sentai eventually that will just be people asking you to watch their favourite shows (I was this close to just yelling 'hey watch the one that makes up my avatar') but it's fine either way, whether you eventually find something to stick with in the franchise or if you're a Rider fan first and foremost.
Quote:
Quote:
I can't tell you if the goofy fun factor of a show like Kyuranger would ever click with you, but just like Rider, Sentai seasons actually vary quite a bit in terms of their style, tone, overall quality... you know, the works. So I guarantee you there's at least one out there you'd like.
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To be honest, I feel like sometimes knowing everyone can actually make the films worse. In Chou Super Hero Taisen specifically, the character they brought back from Ryuki is practically my favorite Rider character overall. Love that guy. Love the guy they brought back from Go-Busters too. But the film does nothing with the characters. Compared to good, involved crossover stuff like GoRider, it's just an absolute waste of the opportunity, and that frustration really drags the whole thing down (even beyond the bad plot and everything else). That's not uncommon for the Super Hero Taisen stuff in general. The other empty suits playing out pointless fight scenes don't fare much better still.
Quote:
As far as Sentai goes--one thing to keep in mind is that while there are definite tonal differences and just overall different structure to the shows, there's actually a fair bit of overlap between the staffs that make them. It's not huge overlap, but writers and directors don't necessarily stick to only one franchise. So if you're ever interested in checking out a Sentai, it may be worth looking into whether the people behind Riders you enjoyed have also worked on some Super Sentai seasons. For an example, I lurked the Ghost topic, and I noticed for instance that you really liked OOO--OOO's writer has also penned a number of Sentai seasons, and you'll find similar strengths in those shows even though the formula and overall dynamics of the series are much different.
So that's just a thought. Still, I'm also far more of a Rider fan and have waded only ankle-deep into the ocean that is the Super Sentai franchise myself. Especially with such a huge catalog of series in either franchise, I can totally understand the disinterest--I myself basically only started looking into Sentai seasons when my Rider watching hit a wall (lack of subs, mainly). But as Fish Sandwich said, as formulaic and child-oriented as it may appear, there's actually a lot of variety there. So just to echo some previous points--don't write it off just yet, but also certainly don't feel like you have to watch it.
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09-02-2019, 08:16 AM | #18 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I'll also bring up, since I didn't before, that the tournament structure had a ton of unrealized potential. The fights that were included were good, but it seemed like something you could've built the whole story around? I'm sure it's been done before (I think I saw that there's a Decade tourney film?), but, like, it works so well to build drama and maintain momentum. It's a good framework that they maybe half used. In any case, given the criticisms you've brought up of Sentai - which, honestly, I mostly agree with - I can very, very highly recommend Go-Busters. It didn't quite hit me why I liked it so much more than others until a friend who watched it recently described it as feeling like Kamen Rider and it just all fit together. Given the type of thing you like going by what you've written, if you ever want to try a Sentai; try Go-Busters. If you don't like even that I think you can safely say Sentai isn't for you. Last edited by Kurona; 09-02-2019 at 08:19 AM.. |
09-02-2019, 03:40 PM | #19 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I'm afraid that much like this movie, Decade: All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker also does not stay on the tournament aspect for very long.
In any case, given the criticisms you've brought up of Sentai - which, honestly, I mostly agree with - I can very, very highly recommend Go-Busters. It didn't quite hit me why I liked it so much more than others until a friend who watched it recently described it as feeling like Kamen Rider and it just all fit together. Given the type of thing you like going by what you've written, if you ever want to try a Sentai; try Go-Busters. If you don't like even that I think you can safely say Sentai isn't for you. I don't know, that's my mostly ill-informed way of boiling down the differences between two multi-decade franchises into a one paragraph comparison. You're welcome!
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
09-02-2019, 08:22 PM | #20 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,418
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This is the only major piece of Ex-Aid media that I haven't seen. I love Ex-Aid dearly, but I cannot do these team-up movies. Even the good one (Showa vs. Heisei) still has major problems with characterization and the fact that Shoji Yonemura only knows how to write one plot.
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