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07-16-2014, 10:12 AM | #41 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 103
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Like I said on the comments page, the errors in dialogue are bad, mostly because, even if you're fluent in Portuguese and can flawlessly translate the dub, there are some changes and alterations to the dialogue that can change between languages. Sure, you might get the overall plot, but sacrificing the chance of getting the character dialogue correct (which is the case here, since quite a bit of lines were off) isn't for the best. This isn't anyone's fault really, it was just a flawed idea from the beginning.
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07-16-2014, 01:54 PM | #42 |
Super Sentai Eien ni
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,862
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Like I said on the comments page, the errors in dialogue are bad, mostly because, even if you're fluent in Portuguese and can flawlessly translate the dub, there are some changes and alterations to the dialogue that can change between languages. Sure, you might get the overall plot, but sacrificing the chance of getting the character dialogue correct (which is the case here, since quite a bit of lines were off) isn't for the best. This isn't anyone's fault really, it was just a flawed idea from the beginning.
Japanese has many unique speaking patterns that should be translated directly from Japanese to really understand what is being said there. It might be helpful if your Japanese isn't that good to get some help from another subs so you will make sure you got the gist of it right (which is why I decided to help out by saying that there's no German subs or dubs available), but the original audio language should be your focus to base the subs on. |
07-16-2014, 04:30 PM | #43 |
Cynical, But Sweet
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mata Nui
Posts: 186
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Did LFSSS seriously die already?
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07-16-2014, 05:39 PM | #44 |
New Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
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I've had a comment waiting to be moderated for days on there changeman post. they've not approved it don't know why maybe it was because it was response to another post. any way here it is. my opinion on the situation here..
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The simple fact is, if your translator isn’t Magenta or Heat /Metal, the internet is going to shit all over your subs, because they feel that by doing so, they are “helping” them. It has nothing to do with the translators themselves, it’s just that several “toku fandom celebrities” keep perpetrating this notion that their translations are the only ones “worthy” of the fandom, and if you disagree with them, they either shit all over you or have you banned from that particular forum.
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I think the true reason so many follow their lead is because many of these aforementioned “celebrities” are female, and there is an abundance of losers who are so desperate for female attention that they will gladly white knight for these obnoxious shrews.
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I have experienced this phenomena firsthand on numerous forums, as I dared to propose that the differences between Over-Time and TV-Nihon’s subs are negligible at best, and the armies of Queen Lynxara mobilized and had me banned from that forum.
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They have even sunk so low as devote entire blogs to picking apart TVN translations for their own amusement, so that should give you some idea as to the kind of people they are.
seriously, everyone here wants LFSSs to succeed, the actually translators are not the problem. its the quality of the work and working off the wrong source material, and the work is far below what is the "standard". Even if we catergorize TVN as above average in terms of quality of translations and say that TVN is a baseline of what people expect, what this is, is way below that. People with a working understanding of the language looked at it and went “NO!” Native Japanese speakers have looked at it and said “NO” LFSSS needs to slow down and assemble a team of decent translators and qc’ers to work on this. no V2′s, there V1′s should be as good as possible so only minor fixes are needed not complete rewrites. Call me a hater but I see it more as a a concerned fan. Butchering the shows like that ends up putting people subbing them in future cause there’s not much call to sub shows that most people have a negative opinion of like Zyuranger and Goseiger. i heard very little good things said about these shows until someone (Mega-anon and GUIS/Million Folds teams)did them properly The original talk of a hub where people can come together to volunteer services and form groups was great. but Maybe a thread on a Toku Forum or something with a little more transparency. I want to see LFSSS succeed but this feels like just another sub group that rushes out shows, does them badly and then bitches that no-one appreciates the hard work they done on they’re sub par efforts that's my opinion anyway |
07-16-2014, 06:09 PM | #45 |
Super Sentai Eien ni
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,862
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Well, I also agree on the fact that LFSS is rushing in a bit with their own subs, but it really bugs me that every time the talk comes to subbing Japanese show it comes to flame wars on the net.
People easily tend to forget that fansubbers, on the basic level, owe NOTHING to us who watch those subs. They're people that "waste" their precious free time that they could use for more important things to translate shows for complete strangers from wherever in the world. I hate people who say: "Oh these guys suck because I dislike their subs, because someone told me their Japanese was bad" or "You are way to slow!" This happens a LOT with TV-Nihon and it's annoying as hell. I mostly have TVN subs because I often watch on mobile devices, so I need hardsubs and that's the easiest way (also because I generally prefer DDLs). While, from what I could understand and compare watching the shows, especially the older subs of the group might have flaws, we have to keep in mind that most fansubbers are non-native Japanese speakers. As they're not professional translators, errors, even grave errors can happen and tend to happen (even professional translators don't get everything 100% correctly, we're all humans, after all). Of course it isn't that great, but non-professionals and non-native speakers can't be perfect. And TVN sure has improved over the years, their translations are very close to those of other groups. But of course they will never be the same, because EVERY tranlator will translate the same sentence differently. Why? Because language isn't definitive. Every translator has different interpretations because they're all different persons with different backgrounds. And most of them might even have trouble because they're not as familiar with the Japanese culture than others. Just because a translation isn't word by word what someone would choose, it doesn't mean it's wrong. There's of course basic things that can be translated wrong or not as accurate, but that's something only people with actual knowledge of the language can recognize. I'm a beginner in Japanese and while I do understand quite a lot when watching raws and I can point out some smaller vocabulary error, I'd never dare to say the subs are wrong. That's for other people to decide. And I mean those who SPEAK the language. I hate how people on the internet tend to be self-proclaimed critics for something they have barely any idea of. And talking after what someone else said doesn't make you more qualified to critisize something. Let that person do the criticism. Please. I love all translations I watched so far (except for maybe Cruel Angel subs, but just because they sound hella weird) and I'm grateful for everyone who invests time to make those so we can watch and enjoy those shows. Fansubbing deserves deep respect, despite the objective quality. Of course we can critisize the work of fansubbers and correct them if there are any mistakes because that's how they can improve. But starting a flame war and aggressively defending or bashing people is no help and absolutely unnecessary. And really, what's this about a translator's gender being so important? People who think that way really should go outside more... Last edited by Suzu; 07-16-2014 at 06:12 PM.. |
07-16-2014, 07:07 PM | #46 |
New Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
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and true, Fansubbers owe us nothing and no-one is saying they do. what people are saying (fansubbers as well )is that the subs put out were really bad and were put out way to quickly by a group that didn't do enough preparation, didn't bother to learn a lot of the stuff that the other groups do. They rushed in with out fully understanding the magnitude of the project they'd taken on. I have to create subs for English language shows and even them are a hell of a lot of work, that's without translation on top of it. I appreciate their efforts but I would appreciate them a hell of a lot more if they read what others have done, and take the next step to learn the the skills. There is no mastery, No appreciation of the effort of putting out high quality subs. As long as the plot is understandable. Personally I hold them to a higher standard. Maybe i'm spoiled by groups like GUIS or MFC, and even TVN cause despite the critism they do put out a product that is watchable and do they're best to present the most accurate translation by their standards. LFSSS are trying to stand on the shoulders of giants, but IMHO don't appreciate the effort or respect the fans, if their reaction to critism is "well if you don't like our subs, don't watch them." Last edited by AwesomeJayRobin; 07-16-2014 at 07:39 PM.. |
07-16-2014, 11:37 PM | #47 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Englewood CO
Posts: 10,893
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Who said that?
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07-17-2014, 02:32 AM | #48 |
Super Sentai Eien ni
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,862
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But honestly, "people who speak Japanese told me so" is not an argument if used by someone who doesn't. The person who said so in the first place should express their criticism and they should also state what exactly isn't correct, so that others can improve. This is far more helpful than: "I know someone who says your translation is not correct, so what you do is bad!"- And there's many people who do that. Quote:
and true, Fansubbers owe us nothing and no-one is saying they do. what people are saying (fansubbers as well )is that the subs put out were really bad and were put out way to quickly by a group that didn't do enough preparation, didn't bother to learn a lot of the stuff that the other groups do.
Well, you can't force someone to learn from others. Every group has their own way, which isn't necessary correct, but in the end it's up to them. Besides, I don't know how much about the actual process the other groups do talk about somewhere publicly. If you don't talk to them in private and can look up their tactics nowhere in public, how exactly are you supposed to learn from them? Quote:
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I have to create subs for English language shows and even them are a hell of a lot of work, that's without translation on top of it. I appreciate their efforts but I would appreciate them a hell of a lot more if they read what others have done, and take the next step to learn the the skills. There is no mastery, No appreciation of the effort of putting out high quality subs. As long as the plot is understandable. Personally I hold them to a higher standard. Maybe i'm spoiled by groups like GUIS or MFC, and even TVN cause despite the critism they do put out a product that is watchable and do they're best to present the most accurate translation by their standards.
The appreciation could come from those who watch them at least. I've seen some people thanking Aesir and Over-Time in the comments, but it's just a handful and that's kinda sad. Especially because there's still so many people out there bashing groups mindlessly instead of thinking of the backgrounds of subbing first. That's a stupid position to have, but in the end it has some truth behind it. If someone doesn't care about constructive criticism and you don't like what they do- stop bothering. These days, we are in the lucky position to have at least some alternatives. |
07-17-2014, 03:02 AM | #49 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,851
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Like I've said before I speak next to no Japanese, so I pretty much rely on the opinions of other fansubbers and people I know speak/read Japanese to gauge how good a fansub is. Most groups have twitter accounts, and then most members have personal twitter accounts and they do talk a lot about what they do on there. Magenta I particularly enjoy following just because every week he talks about decisions he'll have made on that week of Gaim. Things like "Ornac" and (to a lesser extent) "Triumphant/Zenith" may not appeal to me personally, but it's fascinating to read about the decisions they make even if I don't speak the language.
I really don't want to sound like one to snub a sub group, because I am appreciative of what they do. But if translating a translation didn't sound like a sketchy idea in the first place, the whole mindset of releasing a mistake-laden project just for the sake of "having a set of subs" just doesn't work for me. Especially when said project is berating groups like GUIS for having too many projects then snubbing the thought that if that's problem then why not give them the extra help in the timing/QC department? Yes its a hobby, but at the same time releasing something to the public is going to put them in the firing line regardless of whether its free or not. Groups take pride in their releases, so going in with the mindset of "if you’re going to do something wrong then do it already and get rid of it" is going to ring alarm bells.
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07-17-2014, 04:42 PM | #50 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Englewood CO
Posts: 10,893
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I'm not trying to build any walls to the North, but honestly, if I just wanted the gist of the story, I could watch it raw and get that. I watch subtitles so I don't have to just get the gist. I watch subtitles to get the WHOLE story.
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