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05-24-2022, 01:08 PM | #1201 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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It's all gross! Quote:
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So you didn't have the perspective advantage from Decade VS Zi-O like I predicted? Tsukasa was trying to save the world by destroying Oma Zi-O, the True Sougo he learned about from the Death Game. But since he doesn't know which Sougo is his target, he basically functions as pre-development Geiz, with his plan being Just Kill Sougo. Unfortunately, it's another blow to his heroism, since some of those Sougos did nothing wrong.
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 05-24-2022 at 02:24 PM.. |
05-24-2022, 02:15 PM | #1202 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Forgot that happened! Was pretty cute; thought it was pretty characterful of him
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05-24-2022, 04:56 PM | #1203 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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(Fish Sandwich also watched Rider Time: Kamen Rider Zi-O VS Decade - "7 ZI-OS")
I really didn't enjoy this one. I mean, you only need to click that link to find out, but yeah, I didn't like it, and worse, I liked it so little I felt completely okay just tearing into it and even now, I don't think I said anything that was uncalled for. The only things I really strongly like from this whole project are all the things except the series themselves. Complete Form 21 is brilliant. Inside-Out is a great song and I love that we got versions emphasizing both Decade's Latin sound and Zi-O's Indian one. (<-And it is officially Indian, by the way! Probably should've looked that up before I got it wrong at the start of the thread.) Plus, like I said in that old post, it was legitimately neat that everyone had a second chance at grabbing a Neo DecaDriver! And it's cool that Saber got a Ride Watch! And... uh, okay, I guess I can at least bring up this follow-up post where I tried to be a little more positive: Quote:
If I could say three nice things about this special:
- The subplot about Sougo bonding with that kid was absolutely the best part, and exactly what I was talking about when I said Inoue writes a solid enough Sougo. He's a guy all about going with the flow, and can be surprisingly sensitive and understanding because of that. Kurona's last post right above directly contradicts this, but a lot of my favorite moments from Sougo in the show were just him being a super chill, caring friend, and this was a microcosm of that. He's like a more perky Yuusuke/less smothering Gentarou, and I love that about him. - I remember reading a random YouTube comment when this thing first got announced and we saw pictures of the Saber Decade Armor that went something like "I'm just glad to know the Heisaber's doing okay", and whenever I start feeling like this special was without purpose, I think of those words and feel like it was all worth it. - I kinda dig Tsukuyomi's surprisingly healthy post-series career as a Kamen Rider? Like, for all the jokes that can be cracked about her role in the last two episodes, they're keep putting her in stuff as just one of the gang now, and it's a nice feeling. Not bad for a character I'm pretty sure I described as a plank of wood on at least one occasion! There's a thing I've said about Inoue's writing a bunch, and it's that I think he always does best with casts he creates himself. Let me put it this way: With one episode of Donbrothers, Inoue took characters I've never met and made me fall in love with them and their story within 24 minutes. With Decade/Zi-O VS Zi-O/Decade, he took characters I've already loved for years and made me feel completely apathetic towards the story they were in. But -- and I'm sure Die knows this better than anyone -- I suppose being on that rollercoaster is just the fate of those who call themselves Inoue fans. Or something. Quote:
EDIT: Oh, but speaking of alternate Sougos -- I do genuinely love Teddy Bear Sougo! It's a lot harder (but not impossible) to stay mad at Zi-O VS Decade whenever I remember Teddy Bear Sougo!
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 05-24-2022 at 05:04 PM.. |
05-24-2022, 05:23 PM | #1204 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Man, did you think this at the time and I forgot? Because you have no idea how nice it is to hear someone else say that
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05-24-2022, 05:54 PM | #1205 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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With pretty much the exact same words, no less!
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What maybe most frustrates me is the thoughtless integration of both Decade and Zi-O's new forms. Give this project to Shimoyama or Mouri, and I guarantee you they would've built the story thematically to build up to the idea of these Heisei Riders fighting after their era is over taking on the powers of Reiwa. We'd have Narutaki getting super angry after finding out Decade now has the powers of two decades, only for Tsukasa to shut him up by taking it to an even more ridiculous extreme in the end or something. But instead, a suit as legitimately brilliant as Complete Form 21 (no matter what anyone says!) is just wasted, with no introduction, and not even any real time to show off before getting knocked aside.
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05-24-2022, 08:41 PM | #1206 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,431
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I never finished the vs. miniseries. The Decade murder mystery one I just never got around to finishing due to apathy, but the other one really turned me off from the start. I found the surprisingly high levels of gore to be off-putting and some of the high school stuff with Ora was deeply unsettling (even once I realized who she was; like I said earlier, I had completely forgotten that she and Heure were characters from the show). I was also kind of weirded out by how cheap the Zi-O suit looked. I'm not sure if that was from the stage shows or what, but it was really obvious that it was not the full quality suit from the series.
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05-24-2022, 09:13 PM | #1207 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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These things came out recently enough that I've been waiting ever since I watched them to see what Die would have to say, considering his whole deal with Inoue. Like, if anybody could draw out some hidden deeper meaning to the story here, it'd be him, right? But uh, yeah, I guess "straight downward slope, but a fun one" is about as good as I could've realistically hoped for.
But this Zi-O Vs thing? Man, I got nothin'. It's all cribbed from the Zi-O series, but faster and dumber. The new characters are one-dimensional gags, the stakes are hard to care about, and the end of the story makes it all seem pointless. If anyone's got a single theory on what this story was about that isn't just pointing out episodes of Zi-O it's referencing, I'd love to hear it. Quote:
I wasn't sure if I was imagining this, so thanks for the confirmation. It's definitely a cheaper-looking suit. The metal watchband that drops down from the Driver is sewn in, instead of being a plastic piece on top. And you can see some of the stitching? It doesn't look great up close.
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05-24-2022, 09:37 PM | #1208 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I found it most noticeable on his watch holders
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05-24-2022, 10:59 PM | #1209 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,448
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Zi-O vs Decade is a story that's all about exploring yourself as you grow up.
Hobbies, interests, friendship, sexuality, the works. Not just in how you take things into yourself, but in the interactions you see from others as well. Sogo literally gets to meet and experience other lives that he could've lead, and they all get him questioning various aspects of himself to the point that he begins to think that maybe his dream of being a king might not be the sort of thing he's into afterall: Literally hearing himself talk gets him to reflect on things. The closed off world of the high school represents his own inner world, where he's at the center and everyone else orbits around him. New Sogos coming into this world represents new ideas on who he could be. There's alot of talk throughout the three episodes about the "True Sogo" which in turn is reinforcing the idea that, whatever phases you go through in life, whatever challenges you face, one day you will look inside and discover everything you need to. The goal of both Tsukasa and Oma is to literally bring out what they think is the best (in) Sogo. True to life too, it's all one big and confusing mess. Whose advice do you follow? Whose feelings do you return? How do you handle social situations you were never expecting to end up in? Do your friends or teachers always know what's best for you? And how do you handle it all when life continues to come at you so fast(represented here by the Inves swarm)? In the end, it seems as though the end message is to try it all out to see what sticks and what doesn't; It's a journey to find the best version of you for you. That all aside, I think the thing I liked the most in this special was Heure's' crush on Sogo. Representation is nice and all, but I'd say that, for the most part, this was actually pretty well written and good gay rep. I really did love how Sogo wasn't grossed out or against the idea of Heure's' love. Plus, Geiz's' "He's MY man!" moment was really funny/cute. And all throughout, it's very obvious that Heure is going through his own struggle with finding love, and that we are meant to sympathize with him, just as any straight crush plot in a show like this would be presented. So uh, with all that said? Do I think that this special was good? Eh, not quite. While it did feature a nice handful of things that I really did enjoy, it still has a ton of problems(the plot being the biggest offender), so I really wouldn't try to argue with anything who felt this fell flat for them. But did I get alot of enjoyment out of the character interaction and comedic bits? Absolutely, and in the end I feel that made watching it worth it, unlike Decade vs Zi-O. And yes Tsukasa dying didn't hurt anything either.
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Last edited by DreamSword; 05-24-2022 at 11:46 PM.. |
05-24-2022, 11:04 PM | #1210 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
True to life too, it's all one big and confusing mess. Whose advice do you follow? Whose feelings do you return? How do you handle social situations you were never expecting to end up in? Do your friends or teachers always know what's best for you? And how do you handle it all when life continues to come at you so fast(represented here by the Inves swarm)? In the end, it seems as though the end message is to try it all out to see what sticks and what doesn't; It's a journey to find the best version of you for you.
Yeah, this is definitely Inoue getting at his themes of self-actualization and the irrelevance of labels. Maybe not nearly as coherently (or, for most, entertainingly) as he's done before, but this all doesn't feel a million miles away from some of his Faiz stories. Thanks for the solid analysis!
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