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05-08-2023, 12:46 PM | #11 |
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My guess is that, based on previous episode, Neon may be willing to depart to the future and live with the people she feels belong in, finally finding her place. By that, Neon will part away from the current world, thus there'd be no more content for her fans which is a part of that world, and that obviously drove Sara crazy in ep. 31. She has been introduced as someone who'd want to leave her wealth and good looks behind and "become ordinary person", and feels it's done now, but doesn't mean that she'd let her fans left hanging, despairing over no more of her contents forever.
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I know that you already have pet peeves over keeping the past alive, and perhaps this'd also extend to Keiwa's wish. But honestly, what's so wrong for people to try fixing things, if they can? Like for example, if someone has a broken toy or electronic gadgets, they can try to repair them, not that they should instantly discard them or such. Of course, there are those that you can't get back, like for real life, people dying, and it's good to learn to move on. But in supernatural world, death can be undone, and thus I'd think it's ok for someone to pull that in a world with more options than real one instead of just moving on. I think I'd rather if they'd work to fix the unfair system granted by the DGP (including saving Mitsume), making happiness an exclusive concept for the few, but ends up allowing more people to be happy together.
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While they need to, I hope that you won't condemn them for this (or other Riders just for joining the DGP and indirectly advancing the DGP's system). But characters can know less than the real life audiences and shape their decisionI mean like, there's SoL and Fenix in 2 previous Reiwa series that has even the good people joining there unwittingly advancing a villain's plan. At that time, what they're already vehemently against is JGP (which Michinaga joined), with clear terrible consequences that they're invading people, but they'd agree to make the DGP fair and square (outing Girori, and what Keiwa said to Ace after the 3v1) as it seems to be more of a "neutral game of volunteers" - they're so secretive ofc. And for Keiwa, from what he currently knows about Mitsume (likely from lies), she's on the same park as people like Niram or Chirami, another one who perpetuates the DGP and the world, instead of someone being used as a tool.
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05-09-2023, 01:53 PM | #12 |
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Neon didn't even try to use long-range attacks, and Nadge defeated the girls with a non-powerful punch. So in this case it's just saving on special effects and indulging the plot. If the girls hadn't lost, Keiwa wouldn't have had to become a hero, and Nadge would have been an unequivocal nasty villain.
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Isn't it better to brave despair than to live without hope? Even if Neon dropped off the face of the planet, her fans may despair, but they would eventually move on and they would still be able to live gratefully for the fond memories of the content that inspired them to become better people. Like you said, what Neon wants to do is functionally the same as what Kousei did to Irumi, despite the difference in motivation. She wants to spare her fans, but she hasn't really thought about what they want. Her fans are actively invested in Neon trying to make a better life for herself, so I think Neon is seriously underestimating how much they care about her. She's not just a content creator to them and if they were watching the Desire Royale, they'd be screaming at her to make her realize that.
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What Mesnick said. There are way too many downsides to Keiwa's desire. The world's population would become bloated. DGP would continue to endanger lives and deprive the losers of their desires. Sueru would have management back under control, allowing him to undo all of Ace's work and probably turn Tsumuri in to another obedient statue for good measure. DGP's influence in the timeline is so vast that it's basically impossible to undo all the harm to their victims and even trying would enable them to take more victims. Instead of trying to save those who have already died, Keiwa should focus on stopping DGP from doing it to anybody else. That's the closest thing to world peace he's ever going to get.
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No, I won't condemn them or anything like that. I won't support them either, but I still respect their right to fight and risk their lives for their desires. Ace is kind of in a similar position to Shinji here, where he's fighting to stop the DGP, but he knows it's wrong to begrudge others for fighting to perpetuate it. After all, Ace's desire isn't entirely selfless, he's trying to save his mother, so it's personal for him. The only ones I will condemn here are the DGP management for creating the stage for this conflict. Neon and Keiwa are misguided, but they are also victims of DGP who want justice, like Ace and Michinaga.
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). Last edited by DreadBringer; 05-09-2023 at 02:03 PM.. |
05-09-2023, 02:11 PM | #13 |
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Maybe I can be wrong on this, but I felt that the sacrificed people's lives and happiness takes the ones who have already died in the past, far before the current Riders' joining or even their birth, already converted into fuel ready for further needs, which current Riders can't do anything about it, rather than the current people outside of those directly involved in the DGP/DR, of which Riders can try to save the lives of the civilians or other Riders to circumvent that, though the Goddess can take away the memories after someone wins. As that wish is made before the knowledge, yeah it may unwittingly cause bad outcome, but it often happens in Kamen Rider series due to its nature of the power coming from evil, and Riders being made as pawns in someone's schemes.
Last edited by Mesnick; 05-09-2023 at 02:45 PM.. |
05-10-2023, 01:50 AM | #14 |
Stronger Than You
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I don't think Kekera has turned. He's Keiwa's supporter through and through.
I think the situation is that just because he's on Keiwa's team doesn't mean he's on Sara's team. So he used Sara as a form of creating suffering to convince Beroba to revive Keiwa. That said, it's entirely possible he is a manipulative bastard and he's just really good at it. I guess I just want to have hope for the funny frog statue.
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05-10-2023, 02:11 AM | #15 |
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I don't think Kekera has turned. He's Keiwa's supporter through and through.
I think the situation is that just because he's on Keiwa's team doesn't mean he's on Sara's team. So he used Sara as a form of creating suffering to convince Beroba to revive Keiwa. That said, it's entirely possible he is a manipulative bastard and he's just really good at it. I guess I just want to have hope for the funny frog statue. Beroba is the best supporter of all, although a bad person. Kekera may be the same. Or play an even more complex multi-move game, which will eventually lead to a positive result. Or just be a local DJ Sagara. |
05-10-2023, 02:15 AM | #16 |
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In the end I doubt what Ace is wishing for will actually change much in the long run. Because Sueru is likely using this as a the Desire Royale?s as a tv pilot. Hence, why he?s willing to allow Ace and Michinaga to end the DGP. Not only was he potentially angling to get rid of it anyway, but what better way for the Desire Royale to succeed from the jump than by including two of the games most succesful and prominent players. He?s dangling the carrot of them getting to make wishes the DGP would allow them to grant just so they?ll participate. This way the Desire Royale becomes and instant success. So even if Ace wins, Sueru wins. Sure the DGP?s gone and Mitsume?s free, but Tsumuri has already shown signs of creation powers. If the DGP is wished away he?ll just turn Tsumuri into their next goddess, head to a new period, and continue the Desire Royale. It?s no different than NBC losing Cheers and replacing it with Frasier.
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05-10-2023, 07:26 AM | #17 |
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So even if Ace wins, Sueru wins. Sure the DGP?s gone and Mitsume?s free, but Tsumuri has already shown signs of creation powers. If the DGP is wished away he?ll just turn Tsumuri into their next goddess, head to a new period, and continue the Desire Royale. It?s no different than NBC losing Cheers and replacing it with Frasier.
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05-10-2023, 09:47 AM | #18 |
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I agree on how Keiwa's wish won't solve everything like how the DGP can continue their cycle (regarding on how some people condemn all other Riders' wishes except him as he uses that for others), but as I said before, I'd like for a mutual solution to fix the unfair system. Like, rather than just telling people to move on while the DGP is destroyed, I think there can be mutual goal of stopping the DGP from endangering others, freeing Mitsume, and have her atone for DGP's sins with for example, but not limited to, Keiwa's wish (without forcing her though), as Mitsume's power isn't a part of the DGP, but what the DGP needs. I think it can happen, thus Keiwa is currently being unreasonable to think only winning the DR can have that happen. I know that the population can become more bloated, but I'd think they still have rights to continue living (after having theirs taken away in untimely manner).
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I don't think Kekera has turned. He's Keiwa's supporter through and through.
I think the situation is that just because he's on Keiwa's team doesn't mean he's on Sara's team. So he used Sara as a form of creating suffering to convince Beroba to revive Keiwa. That said, it's entirely possible he is a manipulative bastard and he's just really good at it. I guess I just want to have hope for the funny frog statue.
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05-10-2023, 10:45 AM | #19 |
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Who's to bet Kekera is toying with Keiwa's life and having him turn against Ace? I just hope that the fox & tanuki's friendship doesn't get thrown away.
Tycoon deserves to turn against Kekera for manipulating him. |
05-12-2023, 11:14 AM | #20 |
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Sarah's and Keiwa's parents obviously didn`t die before their children were born Plus, even if we imagine that there is already the necessary supply of taken happiness to fulfill the desire of a particular winner, like a case with money for participants in a reality show, then during the game itself there is a collection for the next . Plus, we don't know if all wishes have the same price. That is, unlike Sh Ranger, I don't think that Keiwa's desire threatens to overpopulate. I am more inclined to believe that millions of people will be resurrected while millions of others will die. Given the huge sample, some of the resurrected and remaining will obviously be happy, but for the majority it will be a disaster.
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Sure, it's possible, but it takes a lot more effort and the risk outweighs the reward. You say the dead Riders have a right to continue living, but unlike civilians like the Sakurais lost in the Jyamar Areas, the Riders made a choice to fight, so they basically forfeit their right when they signed up for a death game and died. If a man pokes a bear and the bear kills him, that is just cause and effect. DGP are wrong for creating the scenario, but the man should still take responsibility for his fatal choice. If anybody deserves a second chance at life (other than Win who was killed against the game rules), surely it should be those poor civilians who had no choice in their deaths, which is also a smaller number than the dead Riders so they won't overpopulate too much.
And regarding the Riders, I agree that the personal choice to risk life for what they want should be respected if they want it, but I think it's not limited to DGP participants, like main protagonists officially taking up Kamen Rider mantle also puts themselves in a world of danger, and they still deserve to be helped (and would you say its ok for people in DGP to leave them for dead because they have no right anymore, instead of rescuing them if able?), and there are some who outright died, and come back later like final form debut. Or how irl soldiers who consciously join a deadly occupation deserve to get aid, in or out of battle (like treating the wounds). Kekera should be called out for his BS, like previous supporters. Misery builds character approach also seems to be overlooked irl because it's often done by authority figures that educates.
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