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09-01-2023, 11:35 AM | #11 |
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Nice review BTW
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09-02-2023, 02:55 PM | #12 |
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And they start to develop. Watching their evolution is truly breathtaking. You involuntarily ask yourself: is Archimedel right or not? Are they capable of real intelligence, or will they continue to play roles, just more complex ones. And, best of all, we never know the answer. Is the Daichi at the end of the show a reformed Nadge with Jamato's abilities, or is Jamato based on Nadge overcoming the original program thanks to a mixture of other people's memories? I think each viewer will decide for himself. Well, or Takahashi will tell in an interview.
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And it does not work for Irumi's character in any way, because fear for her daughter does not explain her snobbery. It's just an unnecessary appendix, the existence of which is only due to the fact that when it was filmed, the redemption of the parents was not considered as an ending.
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Also, due to the fact that the show shows the paths of different characters, mixed up with each other, they have to adapt to the plot, which leads to complication and absurdities. For example, here is the most obvious story path: Neon finds out about her father's arrest - goes home to her mother - goes to prison with her father - disappointed, goes to Ace and learns about Sara's death - calls Keiwa and arranges a meeting.
Here's what happened on the show. Neon meets with his mother, then with Ace, from whom he learns about Sara's death. Then he goes to prison with his father. And in the next episode, she accidentally remembers Sara and decides to meet with Keiwa. Quote:
But back to time travel. Why can't Sueru go back in time and stop all of Ace's previous incarnations from participating in the DGP? Their names are on file. Without the experience of 2000 years, Geats will simply disappear. The show should at least somehow explain why this is impossible.
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And extremism is just an example. In all villainy there is deceit. Murder? With rare exceptions, all murderers are deceivers. Abuse? They deceive both the victim and the environment.
Deception is the parent of all evil, deception is bad, deceivers are bad people. All? No, but most. It's like children who torture animals. Someone will outgrow this and become a beautiful person with shameful memories. But most will do terrible things later. Quote:
Having digressed a little more, I often see the phrase in the comments: “Egoism does not always mean evil, and altruism does not always mean good.” And I agree that you should always keep your eyes open and be ready to accept the new. But to be really useful, this phrase needs a little addition: "Not always, but most often." Contrary to false impressions, egoists and altruists are equally divided among successful people, just the former is more noticeable. But among criminals, crazy and dependent egoists are actually in the majority. And this is worth remembering.
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Plus, Ace is terribly passive and dependent on those around him along the way. In 2000 years of playing DGP, he never knew anything about his mother. That she is a former Navigator, he learns from Win, that the Goddess of Creation is from Beroba. And many criticized me for demanding that he figure it out on his own. Here I repeat again: 2000 years. It's too much.
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I don't know if it's the actor's or the script's fault (most likely both), but Ace mostly has two emotions: an arrogant calmness and an indignant scream. And sometimes a smile. I only realized much later that, after discovering the truth about his mother, Ace was furious and only thanks to this Michinaga managed to defeat him and Geyser. And so, in the final, we have a rider with a brick face fighting against a rider without a face. Very emotional.
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Michinaga clearly did more mischief (I'm still sure he was willing to betray Ace during his hunt for the riders, but Archimedel's threat got in the way). On the other hand, he apologized to Sara (although his fault for her death is minimal), while Keiwa is not in front of Tsumuri.
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So, instead of running away, she should have attempted suicide? Morality is vile and dangerous. Even if you look at the situation from the point of view of the main age category of the show, it turns out to be nonsense. Parents may scream, but they still love you. So, the situation is not suitable for such a message.
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He could simply say that his wish to know everything is the only wish to be made. Because if he knows everything, he will be able to fulfill any of his desires on his own, without turning to the DGP. This is just one extra line of text and quite in the nature of the character, but it was not added. Because then there were no plans about what to do with this rider.
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I should also mention why I am against his desire to become a famous musician. And in general, all similar. Because a popular musician should be popular for his music, not his ability to take down monsters. Just imagine the reverse situation: Ace destroys Jamato Knight and Tsumuri announces that BTS is the winner of the DGP. Yes, they did not participate, but they deserved to win with their music.
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Suel, meanwhile, I get as a stand-in for commercial control of people's lives as product thematically he's very strong, but as a character he's not very exciting to watch get beaten. With his whole time control schtick, I'm just reminded of Masamune Dan (the Zeppan-dad), another Takahashi-penned overlord wannabe.
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Yeah, I think the whole becoming a god thing was too sudden, considering the show's logic already established that a god cannot have free will and Ace had previously rejected godhood to keep it, which is somehow irrelevant now that his physical body was destroyed. It's also contrary to his statement of the arc, that he would create a world where everybody can be happy, but turns out there's no room for Ace. He did exactly the opposite of what Mitsume wanted for him and now the Ukiyo family are missing their son.
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Regarding Neon's turn towards romantic focus, I'm okay with it, since her original desire of finding true love was already granted by her parents, so it makes sense that she would find a new desire after that. I don't mind Neon/Kyuun being canon now, since Kyuun has become a better person, but I respect that Fredbob392 will disagree.
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Regarding my thoughts on Geats overall, I enjoyed it, even though it failed to stick the landing. This confirms my judgment that Takahashi doesn't have the stamina to write a year-long show without help, but I'm grateful that he was able to keep it going consistently until at least the end of the Desire Royale arc, which still allows for a better second half than EX-Aid's Chronicle hell. Thanks to Takebe as producer, none of us had to suffer another Job Competition either. I think Geats is easily the best show Takahashi has ever written, but the flaws became clear as the plot increased in complexity, with more devices needing to be juggled and inevitably, some of them hit the floor.
Edit: Seems that the reason why the final arc can be cramped is, more on Takebe, but perhaps the reason that you'd agree. As you said, Sara's the heart, and... Takebe wants to keep Sara alive for a while, because she's the beacon of light to her and doesn't want for the show to turn dark fast.... So I guess there's also restriction again in Takahashi's team... Takebe sorta of sabotaged Takahashi's talent rather than what you expect... albeit it's about Sara. Quote:
I have mixed opinions about the characters. Ironically, Keiwa, my least favorite Rider of the main 5, had my favorite conclusion to his development arc. Neon often doesn't feel like much of a Rider (despite having one of the most OP Raise Buckles), even though I love her as a character and supported her desire for true love. Michinaga brought some much needed critical thinking to a frequently irrational group, but he stagnates when his critical voice is no longer needed. Win is fun, but he's just there. Ace is cool and charismatic (when he's not making annoying animal metaphors), but as a protagonist, he's weak. His arc ended too early and the rest of the show ended up being about everybody else, including Daichi.
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09-02-2023, 04:17 PM | #13 |
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Ironically, I'd think that their development isn't much highlighted, other than the stakes in their threats - going from fodders (other than final boss), to the roadblocking Jamato Riders, to the army of finalist-level fighters. They only display JamaToru, and Dunkleosteus being the one who interacts like humans, but it's only them individually, not the Jamatos as a whole who are still just acting like them at the beginning.
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Because like Riders' desires, people aren't only limited to one aspect.
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It was never shown if Kousei returns home (being in home doesn't mean freed). Maybe his disappearence from the last episode can be him returning to the jail after his actions are done.
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This kinda sounds like Ryuki of Shiro with Shinji, of which Shinji is the constant thorn to his plans. But Shiro will never succeed in preventing Shinji fucking up with his plans.
And how does the fact that they were so screwed up earlier justify a particular show? Quote:
But well, even if Suel comes from the future, he doesn't have precognitions to know how Ace will end up be. Him going 2000 years ago, would mean that Ace will still be hellbent about reuniting with Mitsume. And no he wouldn't disappear, he'd just reincarnate as long as he hasn't met his mom. His Power of Creation is already something inside him since he was born, it won't be solved by time travelling even if Ace is unaware, but unconsciously making use of it.
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Seems that some crimes are considered as honest, instead of deceive, depending on how it's done. Someone who'd openly declare their disdain towards someone and murder them, like Michinaga, would be considered honest.
Plus, even if there are "honest" crimes, they are still a negligible percentage. So obsessing over them is like putting out a fire during a flood. It's when someone puts a facade to lure someone into their doom, like Daichi does in his cult, that would be considered deceiving. And even it's used as a praise regarding how how someone is better to be open about it, that they "at least admit it", and one can have only the sneaky crimes being considered one. Quote:
Altruism not always meaning good is present in those that has good intentions but went to great extremes to accomplish it, like Michinaga. There are still many who think those who have good intentions did nothing wrong. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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It's less about waiting for that long and more about Ace in 2022/2023 is the closest he's even been to achieve that goal.
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Becoming celebrity is only a means to the end in his plans, meaning so that if her mother can notice his presence, she may make contact with him.
And if he wanted to become president, he could simultaneously gain fame and initiate her search. I still think the celebrity-idol-god line was the original idea. Quote:
There are people who are the stoic types that rarely show outward emotions, and it also doesn't mean that they don't have limits to not display emotion when under extreme stress or in other highly emotional situations. It's also one type of personality people can have, and I'd rather people not deem those who don't act like the way they expect (or just, not excite someone enough) as having "no personality".
Plus, stoic riders in my opinion are Hibiki and Haruto, but guys like Tendou and Ace are already a level of phlegmatic detachment. Quote:
And you being unable to spell things correctly such as "Geyser" there still confuses.
Write, don't spell. All claims to Google translator. I'm too lazy to go into the rider wiki and copy the name of this worthless yellow thing. Quote:
He has said canonically that Ace would be the last in his hunt for Riders when they worked there.
This is true. But I still suspect that he planned to attack earlier. After all, Ace with the Boost Mark II and Keiwa with the Ninja are the only ones who could successfully run away from Jamashin. And Michinaga is capable of deception, otherwise he would never have won. By the way, it's funny that Buffa and Tycoon both get their wish thanks to deceit, and fox Ace, in all three cases shown, just didn't need deceit. Quote:
Michinaga declares to be the type who think human sacrifices are "necessary" for the greater good to Beroba, so he does still see good in statistics at that stage regarding Sara's death (which he continues to do the same).
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It's not suicide smh, making everyone forget isn't suicide, there's un-personing or something called damnatio memoriae.
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And the parents "still love you" part are still the part of "altruism doesn't always mean good".
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He still has to actually win the DGP to achieve that.
Well, yes, that's why he participates in the DGP. Quote:
And even if he knows everything, it won't necessarily mean he'd be able to put that into practice, like Philip in W with Gaia Memories, who can be rather impractical in his approaches.
And neither we nor he will ever know. My statement was generally about something else. Namely, that knowledge can both bring happiness in itself, and be the way to it. Initially, with Daichi, we were given the first option. He craved only knowledge, knowledge was his desire. If, in fact, knowledge was only a path to his true desire, that is, happiness, then it was worth hinting at. Again, you claim that Irumi's snobbery was a deepening in character. Daichi has been on screen a lot longer and has a much bigger role. Why miss such an important detail of the character, which is much easier and faster to show than Neon talking to her mother on the phone? Quote:
Fighting monsters is only a means to the end to gain those wishes, only because the DGP is the one that offers the prize of having a wish magically granted, but they have the condition of "saving the world" from Jamatos to fulfill that. Of course life itself isn't all about fighting and the wishes are like that, but they're fulfilling the conditions the DGP gave. Quality is subjective, but it's possible that there are something that can be good but unnoticed that Win'd hope that his wish can perhaps spread their popularity or such (though dunno about maintaining it). And it's something that never happen ever to randomly have a winner decided as someone who doesn't participate, it's only what you cook on your mind - one also can be a musician who happens to be a good fighter (if they destroy the Jamato Knight), people can be many things.
And you can never pick up a musical instrument, but win the DGP and become the greatest musician in history. Does this sound like my comparison? In any case, Win could have been a hairdresser girl and nothing would have changed on the show. |
09-03-2023, 04:40 PM | #14 |
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God not having free will part was done in them being petrified. They lose their will if they're petrified, Tsumuri manages to keep some when resisting petrification. Ace deals with that problem by letting go of his mortal body, so he can freely use his power without the risk/penalty of getting petrified anymore.
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Though this may can burden Takahashi more, I felt that this'd be more about Geats not being enough for usual 49 episodes format IMO, and the final arc has to only fit something that is "necessary" for the plot's completion, which'd be why I think it can fail to stick the landing. Personally I'd see more things that can happen between the shows and the characters before the show ends, like even... people talking about Win's survival, Samas and Suel's direct presence (that I feel Zitt curbs with his existence, albeit Zitt is Suel's avatar), how the cast reacts without being forced to keep things secret anymore (as DGP participants), etc., but it got held off by duration.
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Edit: Seems that the reason why the final arc can be cramped is, more on Takebe, but perhaps the reason that you'd agree. As you said, Sara's the heart, and... Takebe wants to keep Sara alive for a while, because she's the beacon of light to her and doesn't want for the show to turn dark fast.... So I guess there's also restriction again in Takahashi's team... Takebe sorta of sabotaged Takahashi's talent rather than what you expect... albeit it's about Sara.
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Like regarding Neon being on the running of favorite female Rider before (which should be something remarkable for franchise's track record), but turning out to not feel much like one, dunno how'd this ends up, though I do can say that her story may not be that connected to the main male Riders' rivalries.
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Dunno if it's not your thing for characters' arc "ending too early", but perhaps sometimes they should give some screentime of how their developed self would be, rather than only displaying very short time of them... I feel that it'd be how people'd not acknowledge their development as it won't stick in their memories, like I think many of the main Riders' development to be more of badasses, like Wataru beating the shit out of Fangires untransformed at the end of Kiva.
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09-04-2023, 07:40 AM | #15 |
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Tell that to the panda, the bat and the pig. Moreover, this is still a show, so there should be a sense in such a decision. What is the reason to complicate the character of the guest character of the third plan with a trait that will not play in the future? Irumi then becomes a more complex character than her husband.
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Write, don't spell. All claims to Google translator. I'm too lazy to go into the rider wiki and copy the name of this worthless yellow thing. Quote:
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I'm not talking about Neon's desire, but about her relationship with her parents. Their love manifested / became noticed by the daughter and the audience only when Neon's life was directly threatened by a visible threat to them. That is, if such a threat had appeared earlier, then the reaction would have been earlier. That is, instead of escaping, Neon was worth the pills to swallow and she would immediately be loved.
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But then I have to wonder why Ace didn't just get himself killed immediately after defeating Suel Gazer, if that was the fastest way to obtaining his ideal world. He even admitted that he'd been planning this since that time, so it kind of renders everything else that happens in between pointless.
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Hmm, intriguing. Sara's tragic death might've been too much if it was done too early, like in the Heaven and Hell game, since there was already Ace's surprise defeat to punctuate the end of the JGP. So, I can see why Takebe put on the brakes for Takahashi's enthusiasm here, she understood Sara's emotional appeal and wanted to keep her alive just long enough to ensure the strongest reaction. This also allowed more time to observe Keiwa's subtle turn towards villainy, which some people were already unprepared for, while keeping Michinaga as a sympathetic character by placing most of the blame for killing a lovable character on the severe bad guys Daichi and Kekera.
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I like how the show makes a point that Neon's desire for true love is one of the most realistic and can be granted without DGP, but yeah, her lack of rivalries limits how she can interact with the villains and her motivation for joining Ace's DGP was to take Kousei's place, in contrast to Michinaga and Keiwa who had personal reasons. When I compare Mayu, who had a rivalry with Medusa and an arc of learning to move on from revenge, I think Neon was lacking content, only getting a little more than Win. However, I will still rank Neon highly as a heroine and probably also a female Rider, since the bar is low anyway.
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Yeah, I'd be more okay with Ace's early arc conclusion if there were more scenes of him applying the morals he learned to new situations. Like, he's way too Mary Sue in this arc, everything he says inexplicably turns out true or has a secret reason behind it no matter how weird it sounds, like stopping Tycoon Bujin Sword from killing JyamaDaichi without explaining, or insisting about Daichi having a change of heart without any evidence to support his claim. It's too difficult to relate to Ace when there's no sense that he's vulnerable anymore.
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09-04-2023, 12:07 PM | #16 |
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Like usual, I guess the conflict is about how characters don't know everything, similar to how the viewers do. Ace didn't know he has powers, thus he asks his mom why he's reincarnating. And after knowing he inherits her power, he doesn't know all about it either, like how he can only use it to retrieve some ID Cores before recharging by eating a lot, and that later he realizes that the cost of his power is losing his free will - by being petrified, he didn't know that at first regardless of knowing that Mitsume got turned into that. And finally, Suel's words was what makes him realize, by resisting said cost of his power, he's trying to be still human and thus Suel makes him vulnerable to be shot. Ace realizes by this that his human body is his "limiter" and lets himself got killed to get rid of that. So I guess, due to lack of knowledge and Suel's words.
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Dunno but why I feel like if Keiwa's heel turn is done earlier, Geats may can fit all the ideas Takahashi have in the year-long format. If Sara's death and Keiwa's heel turn is done midway, since Keiwa's heel turn was one of the crux of the events in the final arc, and if it happens earlier, there may be more time to fit all the ideas within the show's running time. Won't want for Sara to be degraded (like Kekera does), but can feel that Sara-centered DR halts the story in the middle for "too" long to get the final arc rushed, with characters also being focused on to her like Keiwa and Neon being her bodyguards against Riders hunting her like Michinaga and Daichi. It's a shame to me that perhaps if this isn't done, Geats may become a perfect (or at least one of most complete) Rider series, but it now fell short of it, though without this Sara may end up similar to another woman that are the driving factors of the secondaries, like SAYOKO!!! or Kasumi in Build, and maybe another "bad" decision can still happen if there's something else dragged on....
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Letting go of revenge... so that'd seem like usual implementing destructive emotions as a room for growth. I know that it's easier to write and work on human negativity and they have more, or at least easier content for that, but yeah, I guess I'd want for innate goodness to not be rejected in concept of writing and still be encouraged, and for room of improvement, still taking into account of that rather than, for example, "Evil Superman" stuff. But I thought Keiwa and Michinaga doesn't have personal reasons? Keiwa wants to protect remaining people, and Michinaga wants to destroy Jamatos, and Neon'd be the former as well? Just late-addition due to lacking core (but still protecting civilians). It seems that the bar for heroine can be higher (ironically than female Riders) though because there are "perfect" examples of it like Izu - but for rivalries, it seems true that in KR heroines often not get involved with "heated drama between men" much, including well-received ones.
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At least I just see it miles coming that Daichi being kept alive is important to free victims like Sara, which Neon and Michinaga also did the same from Kekera and Beroba. Though for his monologue to Daichi, I did have a response about it in ep. 47 that you didn't reply yet, about how I think thoughts can be related if emotions aren't part, how about my thoughts there? T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶:̶p̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶a̶i̶g̶h̶t̶-̶u̶p̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶g̶u̶y̶ ̶b̶o̶y̶ ̶s̶c̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶m̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶f̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶w̶a̶y̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶a̶l̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶g̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶.̶
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09-06-2023, 04:22 AM | #17 |
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Okay, I guess that kind of makes sense, if Ace wanted to test the limits of his powers as a mortal (Ukiyo anyway) before committing to his last resort. He might've wanted to lure out Suel first as well. I still feel like he's developed backwards in the end though, as he continues to tell his comrades they're better off forgetting and essentially forces his ideal of happiness on them instead of letting them decide for themselves, like what Neon planned to do to her fans in her depressed state. Ace is just spamming all his catchphrases at once in this scene and none of it feels right after everything they've been through together.
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Neon had destructive emotions as well, when she wanted to disappear, so it's not like she was totally healthy either. Like Mayu, she was also forced to find a new motivation, due to circumstances preventing them from continuing with their original ones, but Mayu was more active in thinking about what being a Kamen Rider meant to her.
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However, I think there's no clear answer which narrative would've been better, since Sara's role as the "beacon" to both Neon and Keiwa was an important part of her character, especially during DR, so for her to be killed any earlier than that would've diminished her value.
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I do want to see various moments, not limited to Neon/Sara interactions after Sara's revival, but also others like talking about Win's survival, more interactions between the brought back Riders (can be done either in Gang Riders part or JGP as revived Jamatos other than Toru), or the cast reacting to not needing to keep things secret anymore, like Keiwa bringing up about his video diary, to Sara or anyone, or Neon using her stream to inform the public, about things only the cast knows unlike reporters; e.g. Daichi's true nature (t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶G̶a̶i̶m̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶-̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶:̶p̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶M̶a̶i̶ ̶t̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶d̶a̶n̶c̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶t̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶i̶n̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶p̶u̶b̶l̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶H̶e̶l̶h̶e̶i̶m̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶M̶i̶c̶c̶h̶y̶ ̶f̶o̶i̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶k̶e̶e̶p̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶r̶e̶t̶s̶), or how Tsumuri reacts, etc. This feeling would be similar to how I feel about Ryuki btw. Quote:
I guess it's possible for Daichi to infer the correlation between the hosts' memories and the emotions they felt while experiencing them, but I still think that would only be on a cognitive level, that he understands the cause of the emotions, which would explain why he sounds unsure about it in his dialogue with Keiwa, like how he finds mundane happy memories boring, even though the hosts would consider them enjoyable. It would be similar to my Evolt comparison, where gaining emotions doesn't inherently gain empathy.
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