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04-25-2020, 12:37 AM | #541 |
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Yea, it's less of the age thing and more the show portraying these two naive kids as some hotshot newcomers who think they got it all figured out and try to act all pragmatic. The whole allusion to the corporate world is very much on the nose, what's with the 'business card' stuff and basically everything with Sano's demeanour.
I think it's equally true that the show condemns their attitude while also wanting us to sympathize with them by making sure we understand where they come from. It's not like they're Scissors or Gai; at this point of the series, I perceived them as two confused kids who just need a good mentor figure, an 'experienced senior that genuinely cares about them' type, to straighten them up. Which is... yeah... Quote:
Honestly, in my opinion ryuki is extremely unique in the fact that I can actually REMEMBER all the different riders. They all stand out so much and have unique personalities. Half of me wants each one to have a miniseries dedicated to them, then I remember I would start defending toujou and asakuras way of thinking.
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04-25-2020, 01:43 AM | #542 |
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Dunno if you haven't read my reply above (because you were busy typing ep. 43) or have read but can't add anything, I especially want you to understand the Shinji part.
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Toujou and Sano are not doing great. Toujou’s killed his mentor with an eye on true heroism, only to get his newly-solo ass kicked first by Asakura, then by Kitaoka, then by Asakura and Kitaoka. Sano’s looking for a team to join, but he’s ignored by Toujou, beaten by Shinji, mocked by Kitaoka, and threatened by Asakura. (I guess, even at his lowest, Sano knew to steer clear of Ren.) This whole episode is the two newest Riders getting frozen out and hunted. It’s open season on Tiger and Imperer.
Also damn during this sequence.... Ouja should've used Tiger as a human shield like he did to Gai! And also an oopsie for Kitaoka... Asakura was wounded and knocked unconscious, while the excuses of Riders not killing each other throughout the series was Mirror World time limit (and psychological/physical effect to them)... not this one. This situation should've been an extremely easy kill for Kitaoka with any way like henshin and shoot him, or even at the very least, turn him into police again. Quote:
If you have sympathy for them, why do you think that it's well-deserved for Shinji to beat Sano up? Those sympathising with Imperer wants the best for him which includes... not being treated like that (they want other Riders to accept him more, treat him with respect for example, probably they forget Imperer's untrustworthy traits anyway due to relazting to him). And other than that... Goro is just as dismissive to Sano. And Toujou before the end of the episode also kind of dismisses Sano too, only tolerating him due to Kagawa. Sano overall mirrors Shinji (at the beginning, and even then Shinji's still better than him to deduce about wish granting and how Contract Monster works) a bit in naivety where he knows the least about the war; about how Shiro specifically picks terrible people for the war (including yourself?) who treats others like shit, how the war is settled by killing each other until one Rider remaining, how he thinks money can buy everything including friendship and respect, and the worst one coming up next. Only also add up morally grey traits in him where he can easily betray or kill other people, due to money-oriented part. Even if Shinji gives Sano free orders on Atori... did he deal with Sanako for this (if yes, how?), Shinji's not the owner! And how did Sano still be able to get free drinks later as Sanako seemingly closed down Atori? For Sano story, does this remind you of, Shinji in 13 Riders? Yeah this is the plot I talked about when discussing 13 Riders. Both constantly searching for partner only to be constantly rejected. The ideal development for Sano should be realizing that this is a battle where Riders kill each other until one man standing so you shouldn't partner up at all. And Sano's so dumb lol that he didn't even realize the "letter" Kitaoka gives is just a huge "manuke" (=fool) word, and if you give that to Asakura.... priceless! Quote:
For the rest of this episode, uh… not much to say? Shinji and Ren run around Mirror World looking for Yui, who’s still silent and powerful and Shiro-Lit™. Nothing really happens in that plot, but I assume that’s going to be dealt with shortly. Oh, and there’s zero Reiko in this one, so it’s zip for the Ore Journal investigative stuff. Pretty much just Toujou and Sano against the Adults this time out, and, yeah, way more affecting than I thought that story would be.
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It's a weird thing on this show, or maybe even just this episode, where they feel so much lower than everyone else. For Toujou, he's a college student, so he's probably the youngest Rider they've shown so far. For Sano, it's mostly him treating everyone else like a superior (to suck up) and Kitaoka blowing him off as a dumb kid. It really felt like this episode was trying to categorize them as The Youngest Riders, despite everyone in the cast probably being within three years of each other. I mean, according to the Wiki, even Auntie is only a few months older than Yui. It's true! You don't even have to check! I saved you the trouble!
Last edited by DreadBringer; 04-25-2020 at 06:33 AM.. |
04-25-2020, 11:02 AM | #543 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I think it's equally true that the show condemns their attitude while also wanting us to sympathize with them by making sure we understand where they come from. It's not like they're Scissors or Gai; at this point of the series, I perceived them as two confused kids who just need a good mentor figure, an 'experienced senior that genuinely cares about them' type, to straighten them up. Which is... yeah...
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And also an oopsie for Kitaoka... Asakura was wounded and knocked unconscious, while the excuses of Riders not killing each other throughout the series was Mirror World time limit (and psychological/physical effect to them)... not this one. This situation should've been an extremely easy kill for Kitaoka with any way like henshin and shoot him, or even at the very least, turn him into police again.
I did want to bring this up, but I forgot. It is criminal that a franchise with a sprawling number of characters that turn into bugmen gave a copy of Kafka's Metamorphosis to a tigerman. So close! Quote:
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Nope. Toujou is 25, Sano is 21 yeah the youngest but he's the same as Shibaura age-wise. Sanako is 45, and her actor Kazue Tsunogae has passed away in 2018 (So you also use wiki to gain more informations? Well for starter the wiki refered Sanako as grandmother). Here's full info for the character's ages t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶1̶9̶.̶
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04-25-2020, 02:01 PM | #544 |
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MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 44
So, Sano and Toujou. I was three paragraphs into talking about this episode, and I just deleted it all. My head's a mess of thoughts about this one, about the arc of Sano and the ongoing journey of Toujou, about the importance of telling this story, about how it's necessary to explain the difference between want and need when it comes to character motivation, about what friendship means to characters that aren't happy with themselves, about how goals are meaningless if you don't understand why you're pursuing them, about the tragedy of having something to protect in a story that makes that a weakness. There's a lot in this episode, and I really loved it, but it's almost too much to talk about. So this, this one's going to maybe be more feverish and scattered than usual. Ha ha, wrote another one and a half paragraphs, deleted 'em. Man! Why is it so hard to talk about this episode? The main thing in it that I liked is how it's exploring the idea of motivations, of want vs need. There's a hollowness to Sano and Toujou's characters, as they're driven more by what they want (wealth, respect, love) than what they need. They'll do horrible things to get what they want, but there's this sense that they're not sure having it will help. Toujou especially. His confession to Sano, that he thinks being a hero will make people love him, it's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing I've probably seen on this show. But it's not the sort of all-consuming drive that Ren has to save Eri, or Kitaoka has to save Kitaoka. It's not the sort of pressure he'll need to survive these battles. It's this hope that maybe this goal will validate his suffering, will be the thing that allows him to feel loved. It's a sadness straining to give itself context. He keeps trying to activate that level of commitment, to transform want into need, but it's all play-acting. It's going through the motions. He can't find happiness because he sees happiness as an external thing, something to be captured or obtained. It's tragic, his character. Aaaaaand that's a whole paragraph on Sano that got deleted. Jesus. This episode! I don't know. Really gotta think on this one. It's doing something inside my brain. It's like it destroyed the concept of vocabulary, like all I can do is just point at it and go HOW DID THEY MAKE ME SO SAD ABOUT THESE TWO VILLAINS. I don't even know how to talk about Sano in this. I've been writing and deleting dumb things for an hour, probably. I'll have a way in, I'll think, and then it'll just be nonsense. Dumb stuff about how he gains something to protect when it's most dangerous to have it. I think there's something there, about how the show makes a character's strength the same as his weakness, but I don't know how to talk about it for Sano. I don't know how to talk about this episode at all, it feels like. I don't think I've ever had an episode I enjoyed this much, or found as much quality in, while being absolutely stripped of the ability to articulate it. It's not even writer's block or anything, because I've got no problem writing this self-pitying garbage, but good god is the Sano part of this episode, the major part of this episode… it's like it evaporates as soon as I go near it. So, Toujou again. His friendship with Sano in this was great, how neither of them seems to feel friendship on an emotional level. For Sano, it's transactional. Friends are something you can buy, either directly with money or indirectly with kindness. Except, y'know, it's not really kindness, it's a down-payment on a favor. Toujou's worse, with friendship just being another word for something he can destroy to feel heroic. Both of them, it's sociopathic, a human life as a way to make themselves feel better. There's a hollowness in them, a lack of clarity to their motivations and a desperate need to feel worthwhile, and their warped connection to each other is a horrorshow that's indistinguishable from friendship to them. Well, that's only the start of a paragraph that got deleted, so, you know, progress. I don't know. I don't know. I love this episode, but I hate talking about it. I think it broke my brain. I think it's making me hate thinking about and talking about Kamen Rider. I'm throwing this one to you guys. I have to stop trying to talk about this episode. I have to get out of my head. I'm definitely freaking out. You guys talk about it, maybe I'll be able to construct something in response, or after a while, or I don't know maybe never maybe this is the last post about Ryuki I don't know I don't know I don't know.
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04-25-2020, 02:35 PM | #545 |
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Yeah, I was watching this episode 2 days ago and barely registered anything. Even Imperer’s death. I knew it was coming (since the movie branches off from episode 45 and Sano isn’t in it), but it really failed to compute with me.
Who knows? Maybe next episode will pick things up for me. |
04-25-2020, 02:47 PM | #546 |
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Ha ha, wrote another one and a half paragraphs, deleted ‘em. Man! Why is it so hard to talk about this episode?
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Aaaaaand that’s a whole paragraph on Sano that got deleted.
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I’ve been writing and deleting dumb things for an hour, probably. I’ll have a way in, I’ll think, and then it’ll just be nonsense.
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Well, that’s only the start of a paragraph that got deleted, so, you know, progress.
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I think that's why these four episodes, focused so squarely on two side characters that everything involving Shirou and Yui somehow becomes the B-plot, they're really good. There's some spectacular characterization going on, and the gut-punch tragic ending is among the least forced that kind of Inoue melodrama gets. Like, it's legitimately a little haunting, and I've always remembered it visually super strongly even all these years later, which made a lot more sense to me when I went to check the director credits for these episodes and found out that the 43 and 44 were done by Hidenori Ishida, who I keep finding out I apparently have nothing but good things to say about. Even the episode title for 44 is just perfect in a way that makes me upset so many early Heisei shows straight up refused to put them in the episodes. "Glass Happiness" Get it? Because it's Ryuki, so obviously glass factors hugely into the imagery in general, but here it directly implies how the sense of satisfaction Sano is seeking in life is both transparent and easily shattered? That's wonderful. These episodes are awesome.
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04-25-2020, 02:56 PM | #547 |
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Get ready for a million posts about Episode 44 of Ryuki, I guess.
There's a visual this episode keeps coming back to, a caged bird in Sano's shitty apartment. I keep thinking about that image. It's evocative in a way that Kamen Rider... I don't think symbolism is necessarily a go-to move in Kamen Rider. There's camera moves and set-ups that are frequently used to tell a story (that shot from a few episodes of the chair between Shinji and Toujou, how the barrier informs their incompatibility), but using an item, calling it back, it's not really part of the language of Kamen Rider to me. That goddamn bird, though. To me, the cage is Sano and Toujou's need to achieve. They're trapped by it, by the need to get rich or be a hero, even while they convince themselves that it's... I don't know, safer, more comfortable. That this prison they've built for themselves of expectation is a liberation, is something that can deliver happiness. Or, maybe the bird is the concept of happiness, locked away but always visible. Toujou and Sano know what happiness looks like, but they can't possess it. Or they're the bird, and the cage is the choices they've made that are now containing them, reducing them. Hmm.
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04-25-2020, 03:05 PM | #548 |
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I liked that this story got told, and told now. It's a good point in the show to do a thing on a set of Riders who don't know why they're fighting. We've seen all sorts of heroism and villainy, but the idea of futility, I don't think that's one we've spent a huge amount of time with. There's a nihilism, maybe, to Sano and Toujou's story. These guys who, even when they're fighting to achieve something or protect something, really can't articulate it any better than I can. It's like their lives are the result of an ill-informed decision, and they can't even tell you why they care.
So much of this show is about characters with clear, precise motivations, delineated and explicated. Before it's all over, it's nice to see what it means to be a directionless Rider in Shiro's game. To see that ennui and nascent self-discovery punished by heroism and villainy alike. It's hard, maybe, to tell that kind of story well. It's a tragic end for a comedy character, and a new level of inhumanity for a killer. I can't stop thinking about it, though.
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04-25-2020, 03:27 PM | #549 |
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The line at the end. "I just wanted to be happy.” I keep rolling that around in my mind.
I think of it as supporting the idea that goals don't mean anything if you don't why you're pursuing them. Sano's been given everything he wanted, but it doesn't really fix him. He doesn't have anyone he can depend on. His money can't buy him safety from Shiro. And even with this thing he got, I don't even think he's really happy? Even as he's got all this, and he fights to protect Yuri and his wealth and prestige, he's still alone. He dies alone, trapped in another world, able to see Yuri but unable to be seen. He dies still wanting to be happy. He dies for trappings, for the symbols of what he thinks a happy life is. He dies hoping that someone will save him, protect him, all so that he can find the sense of fulfillment that eludes him. Or, I don't know, maybe he's truly content and the tragedy is that if he'd never chosen to be a Rider he'd actually get to keep and enjoy it. But I don't think so. I think he's someone who assumes that wealth is happiness, that status is respect, and longs to truly feel that.
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04-25-2020, 03:34 PM | #550 |
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It's just really difficult for me to explain the emotion of watching this episode, seeing this story play out. If it'd just been about Sano, I think I'd've had a way to talk about that. But tossing in Toujou's story, conflating Toujou's despair with Sano's incremental doom, it made this reaction happen in my brain that was both exhilarating and indescribable. There're words for the events, for the moments, but I'm not sure there're words for the feeling. You know? That's the part I'm having trouble sharing. Or HA HA maybe it's all too clear how insane this episode made me!
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