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12-05-2020, 04:07 PM | #71 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
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The funny thing about this is that I remember vaguely from when I got into Rider, back when W and OOO were still hip newcomers, that Kabuto was considered a good gateway show for its appealing mechanical designs and slick action. Maybe someone who's been around longer than me has a better idea if this was any particularly popular opinion or not?
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12-05-2020, 04:11 PM | #72 |
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This reminds me that I saw a guy in a Facebook group (it mostly takes Tokusatsu screenshots and posts them out of context for comedy) say Kabuto was one of three shows he hated purely because they have an obnoxious fan base that puts down other shows that he likes. The other two were Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger and Ultraman Orb.
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12-05-2020, 04:31 PM | #73 |
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I'm not sure I completely follow, but I think Tendou's a pretty complicated protagonist at this point. I'm not sure I'd call him an asshole? He's... prickly. The things that usually define an asshole protagonist (let's just go ahead and say Kyosuke From Hibiki), Tendou doesn't do that stuff? He doesn't lie, or belittle, or make excuses, or rant, or push people away, or or or. He's a guy that comes off as egocentric, maybe, but his interpersonal problems are that he's too honest, too blunt, too quick to judge. I'm not sure I'd put him in the same bucket as your Kyosukes or Kusaka.
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Hoo boy, a lot to unpack there.
I called Hiyori "minor" because that's where she's at in Episode 2? I'm not sure where everyone goes, but I feel okay suggesting that a teenage girl who's in just a few non-action scenes is a more minor participant than Kagami. She's fun to talk about, but she isn't exactly propelling the plot in this one. To her melodrama... it's a TV show? I think it's okay to enjoy conflict (physical and emotional) without seeing it reflected in the real world. If anything, there's a catharsis to experiencing Hiyori's troubles because it's not real. It's a way of connecting with those emotions in a safe, controlled way. Finally, I don't think she's being mean to anyone here? The dish that she's making in the back is for her own use, or to share with friends. It's not on the menu but Tendou insists she serve it to him. If anything, he's being mean? Pushy, at the very least. (Which I'm okay with because he's clearly trying to get her to acknowledge her talent, so it's a well-meaning pushiness.) For Hiyori being "rude" I'm talking about how she addresses others as 'omae' regardless of gender and age. Tendou also advised her not to refer her customers with 'omae'. Tendou is of course being mean too there (and you didn't call him an asshole yet?). And note that talking of them as stand-offish aren't criticism to characters.
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12-05-2020, 05:23 PM | #74 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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For Hiyori being "rude" I'm talking about how she addresses others as 'omae' regardless of gender and age. Tendou also advised her not to refer her customers with 'omae'. Tendou is of course being mean too there (and you didn't call him an asshole yet?). And note that talking of them as stand-offish aren't criticism to characters.
And, Tendou being mean... I also walked that back by landing at "pushy", but see above! It's more that he's being inconsiderate than he's being an asshole.
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12-05-2020, 05:33 PM | #75 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 03
I think this is the first episode to really come together for me. It helps that it's a fairly light done-in-one mystery, but the big advantage is that it goes all in on Kagami and Tendou as a crime-fighting partnership. There's a lot more friction than you usually see in a Rider show, y'know? There's this tacit agreement that Tendou and Kagami want the same result, but the actual mechanics of how they each plan to achieve that goal (and the specifics of their motivations)... I mean, these are two dudes who are so not on the same page that they are in completely different books. The thing is, though, I feel like I've seen this dynamic before on a Rider show? It wasn't until the sequence of Tendou enjoying the mackerel miso that Kagami covets that I figured out where I saw this type of partnership before. The egotistical prick who needs the harried everyman to achieve his goal; and the easily-distracted guy who needs the power of some narcissist that can barely stop rolling his eyes long enough to actually do his job. It's OOO, isn't it? But if Ankh was the Rider. Once I realized that, this episode was smooth as butter. It's a pretty fun story, despite only really having a couple moves. (Boy, if you don't immediately figure out that the Yuki who doesn't talk to anyone and runs away is actually the real Yuki and not the Worm... well, you're probably not a grown adult and thus more likely to be in this show's actual demographic and hi welcome to how weird adults can be about the shows that are made for you.) Yuki's on the run, and Yuki's in prison. Misaki and Kagami are tasked with determining which is the Worm and eliminating it, which leads to Tendou, the law of Conservation of Energy made flesh, just putting the two Yukis in one space to see which one murders the other. It's not a terribly complex setup, which is appropriate for an episode that actually spends more time making a case for itself tonally than the introductory story did! Like, there's some backstory stuff here (Kagami recaps some details about Shibuya and ZECT, but mostly he's foreshadowing his But Why Heroism story), but the main thing we get in this episode is wall-to-wall Kagami and Tendou, and A THOUSAND PERCENT YES. I mean, that whole prison break scene! It's Kagami flustered and terrified of getting in trouble, while Tendou's just calmly walking through the police station, living the creed that Being In Trouble Is A Fake Idea. Tendou could not care less about the laws of man, and Kagami is trapped in this conundrum of Definitely Illegal But Getting Results. It's this ridiculous combination of men that somehow, inexplicably, succeed. It's incredibly charming, and I haven't even talked about the aces action involved in it. Tendou takes out a squadron of cops by using their movements against them, letting their anger and confusion eliminate them as obstacles in Tendou's path. It's thrilling and comedic in equal measures, highlighting how supremely chill Tendou is as he takes what wants. It's, easily, the best action sequence this show has had yet, and it doesn't involve a single rubber suit. And then they end it with not one but TWO defining Kabuto moments. The first is that Tendou 100% leaves Kagami inside the police station, and then seems slightly amused that Kagami couldn't escape a half-dozen cop dogpile quicker. (Which, how did Kagami get out? Is he actually that good?) It's maybe Tendou having faith that Kagami could extricate himself on his own (and he could!), but I feel like it's not some small part Tendou sort of forgetting to take Kagami with him? I don't think he forgot forgot, but Is Kagami Going To Be Okay was probably pretty far down Tendou's decision-making matrix. The other thing, though... man. Killed me. Tendou lets the imprisoned Yuki go, knowing that she'll interact with the other Yuki. As Yuki runs off, Kagami runs off after her. Tendou then gets so mad that he has to run as well. So mad! It's the most, like, aggrieved attitude he's had yet on this series. I loved it. I found this episode delightful. It was really the thing I needed, the spark that the previous episodes missed. There's warmth and humor, but still plenty of danger and foreboding. (Howdy, Ryou.) Mostly, there's a chemistry to Tendou and Kagami that I find addictive, with Kagami viewing Tendou as a Necessary Evil, and Tendou viewing Kagami as a Useful Idiot. This was the first episode that I finished where I was aching to watch the next one. A QUESTION While the good/bad split setup isn't sticking around (too confining!), I do still want to keep asking questions for these episodes. The heart of this episode, for me at least, was the mismatched buddy cop dynamic of Tendou and Kagami. There are bunches of other Rider shows with a great core duo (OOO, obviously, but also Build, W, Ryuki, and more); but we've also seen plenty of shows with a more ensemble cast (Ex-Aid, Fourze, Drive). My question to you is which type of setup do you prefer, all else being equal: a core duo or a broader ensemble?
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12-05-2020, 05:45 PM | #76 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I definitely used to be a Kabuto hater! Well... maybe not 'definitely', I eventually realised it was just "dislike", and very recently it backed down to "I just kinda don't care about it aside from [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS]".
In my experience it very much stems from Tendou -- fittingly for who inspired him, he's a character you either love or you hate; and for me I just really don't like him -- following on from that, yeah, the people who do hate Kabuto will more than likely cite Tendou as their first reason. Does his personality toe the line between obnoxious and likable enough for you to enjoy him? Does he overstep that line and just become an unshakeably unlikeable asshole in your eyes? Honestly, I'm kinda stunned to have found out Inoue inspired him because writing that out it's amazing how much I'm echoing similar sentiments said about 555. Fun fact: among those who dislike Tendou as a character? ... Tendou's actor. Don't quote me on this but I think he's actually turned down re-appearances as Tendou for that reason. From what I hear he'd be up for it these days if he wasn't busy with his career in America, but back in the day he did not like this character!
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12-05-2020, 06:05 PM | #77 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Quote:
I definitely used to be a Kabuto hater! Well... maybe not 'definitely', I eventually realised it was just "dislike", and very recently it backed down to "I just kinda don't care about it aside from [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS]".
In my experience it very much stems from Tendou -- fittingly for who inspired him, he's a character you either love or you hate; and for me I just really don't like him -- following on from that, yeah, the people who do hate Kabuto will more than likely cite Tendou as their first reason. Does his personality toe the line between obnoxious and likable enough for you to enjoy him? Does he overstep that line and just become an unshakeably unlikeable asshole in your eyes? Honestly, I'm kinda stunned to have found out Inoue inspired him because writing that out it's amazing how much I'm echoing similar sentiments said about 555. Fun fact: among those who dislike Tendou as a character? ... Tendou's actor. Don't quote me on this but I think he's actually turned down re-appearances as Tendou for that reason. From what I hear he'd be up for it these days if he wasn't busy with his career in America, but back in the day he did not like this character!
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12-05-2020, 06:07 PM | #78 |
Standing By
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Location: USA
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I don't speak or read Japanese, so the honorific (or whatever) was not something I picked up on. I don't know how a big a deal that is!
And, Tendou being mean... I also walked that back by landing at "pushy", but see above! It's more that he's being inconsiderate than he's being an asshole. Quote:
A QUESTION
While the good/bad split setup isn’t sticking around (too confining!), I do still want to keep asking questions for these episodes. The heart of this episode, for me at least, was the mismatched buddy cop dynamic of Tendou and Kagami. There are bunches of other Rider shows with a great core duo (OOO, obviously, but also Build, W, Ryuki, and more); but we’ve also seen plenty of shows with a more ensemble cast (Ex-Aid, Fourze, Drive). My question to you is which type of setup do you prefer, all else being equal: a core duo or a broader ensemble?
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12-05-2020, 06:13 PM | #79 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Looking back, I definitely do enjoy how much Hiyori does not care about her job, or for anyone, really. It's very reminiscent of Mari but going even harder and I kinda love it!
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12-05-2020, 06:25 PM | #80 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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So, right out of the gate, I echo Die's sentiments about the prison break sequence. Absolutely wonderful both for its raw comedy and for how much it illustrates Tendou and Kagami's characters, further refining the parallels thing the show has been doing. Tendou is a character I neither love nor hate (sorry Kurona), but when I see a scene like this, I start grinning, and then when the moment keeps escalating, I start grinning even harder. The first genuine emotion I've felt during this rewatch. Loved how even the very end, with Tendou telling Kagami to show his ZECT's power, makes it clear everything he does is part of the plan. Abandoning him there isn't about disrespecting Kagami; he just wants to test the limits of ZECT's ability to cover strange happenings up. I also feel compelled to complain about translation errors even though I retired from that at the start of the Blade thread. The instincts just haven't left me, I'm sorry. Earthly's scrubs of TV-Nihon's subs seem to be the kind that are mostly focused on things like removing honorifics rather than fixing the actual translation errors TV-N so frequently made back in the day. I don't doubt that this is still an upgrade, mind you (you'll see the proof in a second), but I noticed in the second episode some odd choices of phrasing, and now with some straight gibberish in episode 3, it's got me all tensed up. I don't know if I'll be spending the rest of the series doing this, but for now, I wanna set the record straight on a surprisingly important subplot in this episode. That line up top from Tendou? Not what he's saying at all. He's responding to Juka asking what the new thing he's waiting for is now that the thing he was waiting for in the premiere (becoming Kabuto) has happened, and the response is a call back to the earlier scene of him stealing Kagami's mackerel. Kagami said he'd get Hiyori the best mackerel there is as thanks for making him the dish, to which Tendou enters the scene by replying that he'd better get Matsuwa Mackerel's Marutoku then. This is a reference to a specific (presumably pricy?) brand in Japan that is considered so high quality it's also referred to as "golden mackerel", something Tendou even explains in his dialogue. Maybe half of this is translated correctly. But hey, Earthly's not to blame here, because they've merely inherited the mistake from TV-N, who seem to think there was a pun being made here. (Trout is also "masu" by the way,) And from TV-N's perspective, you know, I feel for them. The show is drawing on something very particular here, and you're not always going to have time to go figure all this out translating a show week by week. Heck, I needed a visual aid to figure out that the "Marutoku" thing was referring to a mark on the packaging that is literally the kanji for special (特/toku) in a circle (maru). As for where I got that visual aid? I'll mention that next time if I have to. ANYWAY! Sorry for venting on everybody! I don't have much of a good answer for the question this episode. I pretty much always love a good protagonist duo, but some of my favorite Rider shows have them, and some don't, so there's no real hard pattern there. There's obviously merits to either, but I guess I prefer the duos as a concept?
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 12-05-2020 at 06:28 PM.. |
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