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06-06-2020, 07:27 PM | #521 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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This is also can be about when someone feels that you're being unfair or misunderstanding something, and complaining about it, which would likely about either the bad things (dunno if you mean just something bad in general or something occassionally bad in a generally good things?) or boring things, and wants to correct/point out, how about that? Also I want to hear about what you think about I'm talking for Saya being a character type.
For Saya, I must've missed that. Can you remind me? Quote:
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I wonder if you only mention Mari's state here only because the Ryusei School involved were the mattered ones - Kusaka and Sawada. Because for your comment of wanting Mari and Kusaka to listen to Takumi and leave these turds... you confirmed here that "These are people she grew up with, cares for deeply. This is her family, and they are literally killing each other in front of her" and even if the other Ryusei School is nowhere as important to those 2, they are to in-universe characters, she would side with them more compared to Takumi. Also btw wdym for the version of Mari and Kusaka we never saw?
When the Ryusei School alumni were first introduced, my problem was that while Mari was the way in for that story, she didn't really develop emotionally because of it. We knew that this was a part of her past, but that information lacked emotional context. She reacted as though these were next door neighbors she fell out of touch with, not pseudo-siblings. Worse, the only emotional connection we saw with the Ryusei School was her as a kid, which is "the version we never really saw" in the sense that the kid versions are not active characters changing and growing on a weekly basis. Seeing her be happy or sad as a kid is largely irrelevant to the modern-day storytelling. (Unless they're doing a Faiz Babiez spin-off?) But! The whole point of that last Ryusei episode was that this was crushing Mari. The previous connection to Sawada wasn't trivia, it was the lynchpin for her decision-making. By letting Mari's emotional stakes be the stakes for the story, it made the Ryusei stuff work. Prior to doing that, I absolutely wanted her to abandon them. But the show ended up making it work! So, I stand by all of those previous statements. Quote:
I think this was my point for "making the series all 100% like that is out of the people's capabilities, even making every single recurring cast equally as deep and completed is known as an enormous task, let alone the victims and one-time people", that it's too high of an expectations, not enough room for 100% everyone.
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06-06-2020, 09:25 PM | #522 |
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KAMEN RIDER 555 EPISODE 30
--1-- It's tough to care about fictional characters. Not, like, "it is difficult to feel an emotional connection to fictional characters", but, like, it can put you through the wringer. You care about someone in a story, and then something happens in the story that just breaks your heart. That's a good thing! That's a story getting an emotional response out of you! But it sometimes feels so bad that you resent it a little. The twist in the story stops being something that you marvel at for its effectiveness and starts being something you abhor for this pain in your chest. It's like you're being punished for investing emotionally in what you've been watching. It's a little like a betrayal. --2-- And betrayals are at the heart of this story. Takumi thinks he's been betrayed by Yuuji, Yuuji thinks he's been betrayed by Takumi, and Kusaka is betraying them both. But that all comes later. First, it's the show rewarding you for caring about Yuuji and Takumi. There's the requisite I Don't Even Know Who You Are stomp-off by Yuuji in the beginning, where he thinks his friend is a Smart Brain assassin. And Takumi handles that rejection as well as you'd think, namely by making that face and irritating his friends. (He still tries to play the Stop Having Feelings For Someone But I Can't Tell You Why Card! Still! He never ever learns!) That's expected, but the pivot the show makes after that is extraordinary. You've got two men who have found out they don't really know their friend at all. So they go to a friend of the friend to find out what the deal is. The whole middle section is great, where the two Teams pair off for some character definition. Mari tells Yuuji that, uh, Takumi does not have grand plans for the power of Faiz, he's 100% not a plans guy, have you spent more than one minute with him ever. Yuka tells Takumi that, hey, Yuuji would never harm a human (again?), he's a total sweetheart, you could do a lot worse. (That last part is implied.) Meanwhile, Kaido and Keitaro dye their hair in a hilarious attempt to reclaim their self-worth after being destroyed by love. The last one doesn't really go anywhere, but it's sincerely delightful. Those two actors are a comedic treasure. --3-- After Mari and Yuka play matchmaker, it's time for Yuuji and Takumi to have their heart-to-heart, to really talk about all of the various conflicts between Orphnoch and RidHA HAHA HA HA HAHAHA Oh, shit, I almost got all the way through that! No, what happens is that Takumi is so visibly uncomfortable trying to bridge the gap between them, the mistrust that still lingers, that it is a goddamn miracle that a nearby Orphnoch attacks so that Takumi and Yuuji can restore their bond the old fashioned way: killing a monster. It's your basic Rider Restoration, where a difficult-to-articulate emotional problem seems less important after two (or more) men righteously battle against the forces of darkness. It's a beautiful sequence, where they're utterly in sync as they just humiliate the unlucky Orphnoch. The whole entire scene of Yuuji and Takumi together, it's beautiful. The sunset, the summer bug noise, the tranquility of nature. And then the performances, with both men trying to find some way back to what they had. Takumi agreeing that it'll take time to trust each other, when you can see it's killing him that Yuuji doesn't trust him. Yuuji's smile as Takumi rides away, the weight off of his heart. It's been dozens of episodes to get to this point, to see this friendship blossom into a connection. The two halves of this show united, finally. It's so fantastic. It's such a reward to fans. Enter Kusaka. --4-- I mean, that's drama, right? Something good happens to make it more powerful when something bad happens, and vice versa. But, god, it hurts so bad. Kusaka sees a future with Takumi and Yuuji working together, and he hates it. He'd be marginalized, made redundant. They'd be saving people, protecting some Orphnochs, fighting Smart Brain, being heroic in front of Mari... it's his nightmare. And after Sawada brings up the mysterious events of the Ryusei Reunion, tossing out a Failure insult for good measure, Kusaka is feeling boxed in. So he schemes. He tears Yuuji and Takumi apart, framing each of them in turn for betraying the other. It's honestly a pretty great plan! He knows that while they want to see the best in each other, those old resentments haven't just disappeared. They've fought enough times that it doesn't take a complicated lie to turn them against each other. (Although, when Kusaka calls Takumi "a silver-tongued liar" to Yuuji? And Yuuji's like Wow Really? Again, have you spent even one minute with Takumi my dude.) There's plenty of blame to lay at the feet of Kusaka, but I don't think Takumi and Yuuji are blameless here. They both very easily believe the worst about the other. Takumi's flaw is that he's always waiting to be villainized, so he's not surprised if people hate him. If Kusaka says that Yuuji really hates him and has a grudge, that sounds correct to Takumi. For Yuuji, his trigger is feeling betrayed by people he trusts. His cousin. His fiancee. Letting someone get close and then having that used against him, it's one of the few things that enrages Yuuji. (He loses it at Kaido after he learns the truth about Takumi.) He'd thought he'd misjudged Takumi, been angry for nothing, but that knee-jerk is what Kusaka manipulates. Yuuji falls back on his original anger, forgetting his forgiveness. And, man, maybe that's why it hurts so bad? Their culpability? It's not just Kusaka tricking them, it's him exploiting their insecurities, encouraging their worst behavior. They make the decision to see the worst in one another, and that's heartbreaking. --5-- But, shit, maybe folks feel differently! I can see this being a thing that, to some, smacks of writerly contrivance. Kusaka has to scheme a bit to tear them apart, and schemes can make viewers feel manipulated. It didn't for me. I thought it all worked like gangbusters. (Well, maybe not some of the Jet Sliger effects work. Definitely took too big a swing on having two of those in the climax!) I loved how internally generated all of the conflict was, how it harnessed 30 episodes of character growth to just grab my heart and squeeze. Did this one work for y'all? Let me know!
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06-06-2020, 09:51 PM | #523 |
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As for Kimura's performance, I think I would bring up what I said for Yuka previously (fixing it too with my second explanation due to it not being so clear):
I don't know if acting must be all about goofy, or over-the-top, or larger than life, or laugh out loud, or in your face and wide-angle lenses, or other kinds of that. People usually consider any actor who doesn't act like that, (or just those who doesn't portray types of characters they like), basically acting as a "normal" person, as bad acting or no personality, but it can be just the people mindset that they just throw "bad acting" or "no personality" to those they think “this person doesn’t stimulate me”, or “this person doesn’t interest me”. Also a term to say someone is not extroverted, that because they can’t figure their personality, it doesn’t exist. A rather lazy and egocentric view of other people tbh, and a very superficial judgement. And that there's no such thing as " no personality". The person refered as such may be a little hidden if they are very shy, but they have a personality. Probably for Saya, her having no spark, is in the character, that she's meant to be a shrinking violet-type of person that is meek, shy, quiet, anxious, insecure, apologizing a lot, etc. The character type like that is obviously, doesn't stand out (because that's what they want, not wanting to stand out among the crowds). Quote:
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It’s a big question, and one the show isn’t super into answering right this minute. Mostly because it’s using that discussion to reiterate how in-the-dark Yuuji and Takumi are about their secret identities, and that’s important to do since they are no longer in the dark.
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Just a top-to-bottom great episode, even if it surprisingly moved Delta to the background a bit. Seeing the whole core cast together is a huge treat, and the way the show used Saya’s death to reexamine some of Takumi’s heroism, that was unexpected but really neat to see.
Didn’t really get to talk about it, but goddamn do I love the story this show is telling with Houjou. He’s shed the skin of a tactical genius and emerged, gloriously, as a snivelling coward, terrified of Lucky Clover’s resident bully. He’s full Houjou, and it’s my lifeblood. That scene with him hiding on the roof, being consoled maternally by Kageyama! Beautifully shot and so wonderfully weird! I love him as a helpless baby! Quote:
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Anyway, this is another great episode I also don't find myself having much to say about, but there were quite a few errors I caught skimming through it, so:
- This is something your brain probably made right because it's so glaring, but "Even when [Sawada] changed into an Orphenoch, he didn't act any different towards his Ryuusei School friends" is more like "Even though Sawada's become an Orphenoch, it doesn't change that he's one of our Ryuusei School friends" or whatever. I mean, I could take the time to come up with something less clunky than "Ryuusei School friends", too, but you get the idea. Sawada acted VERY differently towards his friends! This is a really big, obvious mistake caused by what I'm noticing is a trend with TV-Nihon even to this day sometimes, which is not paying enough attention to grammar. I think they heard "became an Orphenoch", "Ryuusei School", and "no change" and were just like "I GOT THIS!"without thinking about it very hard. - Takumi's response to Mari saying Saya would've wanted to help Sawada right after this also really shouldn't be "I knew that already." It's literally more of a blunt "Why should I care?", which is equally standoffish, but what's important here is that Takumi genuinely hadn't been considering that idea. - And speaking of small lines from Takumi, when Yuka starts raising her hand to at that meeting to vote in favor of Orphenochs being able to have human hearts, the thing he whispers to her is along the lines of "I mean, of course you think that, but...", which is basically the complete opposite of the surprised "Even you think so?" TV-N has it as. I don't think theirs really gets across how much of a stubborn jerk Takkun is actually being right now. He doesn't process grief very well!
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06-06-2020, 10:19 PM | #524 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Sure, okay. I mean, it's a choice a writer can make, to have Saya be a very passive character. But, like, it's not a great choice? I'm sure it's intentional, it just didn't click with me.
It's like, if you enjoy spicy food, and someone makes you a very mild dish. That's intentional, but it's not to your taste. Quote:
Yeah. In previous episodes, the focus was on the Ryusei School alumni. Here, the focus was on how the Ryusei School alumni were affecting Mari.
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06-06-2020, 10:40 PM | #525 |
take me to space
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I like this episode, by itself. I mean, it was absolutely devastating to watch, but I knew it was in a good way. On it's own, it's like full of shocking gut-punching moments that leave you wondering all sorts of things like 'How will our heroes get past this new horrible wrench that has been thrown between them?!' or 'How will they discover what has Kusaka done?!' and so on, so forth.
A question you should not bother asking is "Where did Faiz suddenly get a new Jet Slinger and why did it show up just to get immediately blown up?". |
06-06-2020, 11:20 PM | #526 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Where did Faiz suddenly get a new Jet Slinger: He watched Delta type in the code that summons one. I mean, Delta literally just walked into a tunnel and found one the other episode, so Takumi totally earns his by comparison. (It's also great because when he types in the code, Kaixa's like What Does That Even Do and Faiz is all Shrug Emoji.) Why did it show up just to get immediately blown up: All new equipment on this show is garbage the first time the heroes use it! At least it didn't actively try to kill Faiz!
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06-07-2020, 12:54 AM | #527 |
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In retrospect, it's indeed in-character for all three parties involved. Once you can buy that, it's engaging material; at that point, I was certainly more invested in discovering whether Yuuji and Takumi would eventually make up and beat the shit out of Kusaka together, than anything else in the plot! Also, I always find it fascinating when Yuuji and Kusaka shares a scene b/c of the diametrically opposite way the show is framing them, a sort of subversion to their supposed role. Yuuji is the first 'monster'we ever see, the guy who went on a murder spree on civilians, but the show absolutely want us to like him by doing everything to make him seem the most sympathetic person in the cast. Kusaka is the secondary Rider who's supposed to get along and kick ass together with the MC once they eventually overcome their differences, and his motivation on the most general sense is heroic: he wanted to extinguish all the Orphnochs, the threat to humanity, and protect the girl he loves! Isn't that a good goal? But no, they took painstaking efforts to highlight his toxicity and how much of a bad apple he is. I used to be bothered by how Kusaka's actor frequently overplay some of his scenes to the point of unintentional hilarity, but it makes sense if you consider that the show really want us to unambiguously dislike the guy while hammering home the whole role subversion thing. That scene of their first meeting together, that 'water scene' when Kusaka being such a hilarious asshole to the wounded Yuuji? That's the show in a nutshell. In a way, it's a bit of a shame that the Ryusei plot is such a flop, since I can see how it can contribute to Kusaka's (and Mari ofc) characterization. Instead, they wasted all the time on a bunch of cannon fodders (even Saya was nothing more than a Plot Device; her story landed so badly to me). |
06-07-2020, 01:03 AM | #528 |
I have a problematic type
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Yeah, Kusaka's shit-stirring here is one of those moments where the show gets its reputation for miscommunication issues. Yuuji may not have known he was Faiz, but he's known Takumi much longer and more intimately than he ever knew that asshole who betrayed him to Smart Brain that one time. It does make sense that Yuuji's in a pretty screwed-up headspace right now and not thinking clearly, but it still feels wrong how easily Kusaka pulls the wool over his eyes. Come on, man, you've fought Faiz enough by now to realize that no wrist-flick = not the regular Faiz, even without him pulling a classic Kaixa collar straighten.
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06-07-2020, 01:03 AM | #529 |
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Sure, okay. I mean, it's a choice a writer can make, to have Saya be a very passive character. But, like, it's not a great choice? I'm sure it's intentional, it just didn't click with me.
It's like, if you enjoy spicy food, and someone makes you a very mild dish. That's intentional, but it's not to your taste. Same goes for the "spicy food" thing, they can enjoy spicy ones more, but I don't exactly approve if they call non-spicy foods as bad or uneatable (to themselves yeah, but can't speak on the same behalf for others), or especially call those who doesn't like spicy ones (actually... that's me) are bad to not enjoy what they think are good/better. I guess early on you did say about the worldbuilding is interesting to you if it affects a character, and this part comes full circle and implemented on the series. I personally was only interested in what shit would be pulled on to the cast with the Smart Brain, or the father, or Sawada, or something, and therefore, only those characters part, but yeah audience have to go through the Ryusei School students for that, the ones who hold the most informations about that.
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06-07-2020, 01:42 AM | #530 |
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hey what if i stayed up late one night for no reason and wrote answers that probably don't make sense or address points
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Honestly, this was my gut reaction toward this development. I had a hard time in particular wrapping my head around how easily Yuuji swallowed Kusaka's bullshit, and I think it's because there's been so much time since the thing with his cousin and gf (way back in Ep 2!). Ever since then he's always portrayed as this sensible, level-headed, guy whose good traits stand out even more among the dysfunctional bunch, it's easy to forget how traumatized he must be and how it'd make sense that it only took a slight nudge from Kusaka (who is such an Obvious Bad Dude only to the viewers, not necessarily to other characters) to unleash all the insecurity and paranoia.
In retrospect, it's indeed in-character for all three parties involved. Once you can buy that, it's engaging material; at that point, I was certainly more invested in discovering whether Yuuji and Takumi would eventually make up and beat the shit out of Kusaka together, than anything else in the plot! Also, I always find it fascinating when Yuuji and Kusaka shares a scene b/c of the diametrically opposite way the show is framing them, a sort of subversion to their supposed role. Yuuji is the first 'monster'we ever see, the guy who went on a murder spree on civilians, but the show absolutely want us to like him by doing everything to make him seem the most sympathetic person in the cast. Kusaka is the secondary Rider who's supposed to get along and kick ass together with the MC once they eventually overcome their differences, and his motivation on the most general sense is heroic: he wanted to extinguish all the Orphnochs, the threat to humanity, and protect the girl he loves! Isn't that a good goal? But no, they took painstaking efforts to highlight his toxicity and how much of a bad apple he is. I used to be bothered by how Kusaka's actor frequently overplay some of his scenes to the point of unintentional hilarity, but it makes sense if you consider that the show really want us to unambiguously dislike the guy while hammering home the whole role subversion thing. That scene of their first meeting together, that 'water scene' when Kusaka being such a hilarious asshole to the wounded Yuuji? That's the show in a nutshell. To your point about how they've layered villain attributes onto Kusaka and hero attributes onto Yuuji, absolutely! The big Hell Yeah point in this episode is Faiz and Horsepower, fighting together! I... I don't remember feeling that great when Faiz and Kaixa teamed up! Kusaka's a real gift to this plot, since he's pretty well-defined as Just The Worst, so his motivation to create chaos doesn't have to be greater than This Friendship Might Make Me Look Bad. And, yeah, the heightened sense of villainy he brings is really something else. He feels worse than some of the monstrous characters, I think, because of the ease with which he attacks them emotionally. They are so easily spun around by Kusaka! Quote:
Yeah, Kusaka's shit-stirring here is one of those moments where the show gets its reputation for miscommunication issues. Yuuji may not have known he was Faiz, but he's known Takumi much longer and more intimately than he ever knew that asshole who betrayed him to Smart Brain that one time. It does make sense that Yuuji's in a pretty screwed-up headspace right now and not thinking clearly, but it still feels wrong how easily Kusaka pulls the wool over his eyes. Come on, man, you've fought Faiz enough by now to realize that no wrist-flick = not the regular Faiz, even without him pulling a classic Kaixa collar straighten.
Still, I think the telling part is that, yeah, it was easy for Yuuji to buy Kusaka's lies about Takumi. Maybe that says to some people that Inoue didn't do the work to make it believable, but I see it as Yuuji failing his friendship with Takumi. All the other stuff... I am regularly not recognizing people I've known for years because half of their face is covered. I totally buy that Yuuji would assume that Faiz is Takumi in that scene! Quote:
Well, I was taking about non-main characters (you said here about 12-ish), because previously you ask for like, even normal humans, civilians, or victims to possess the same high level of quality. And now you say about cutting characters.... while it's reasonable for main characters to be cut, it's impossible to cut every other living beings, if they all can't have that high level of quality. Dunno if this is understandable, sorry for bad English.
And, for the trimmed cast... this show definitely has too many regulars. However, one of the advantages is that stories can generate internally (like the last two) way more reliably than on other shows. I'm okay with the big cast as long as they're using everyone effectively. It don't work so great when the show brings in a half-dozen more characters for a story. Quote:
Obviously not every type of something is going to click for someone, but I just want to say that, for "it's a choice a writer can make, to have Saya be a very passive character.", something that doesn't click isn't necessarily something obscure (though in Faiz it probably is), it's an already established type of character called "Dandere". Other than that, sorry for this one this is more of a personal issue, but to rag on her (like mocking, though note that saying her not clicking is different though), based simply on who she is (of a shrinking violet type), and wanting her to not be herself, that sinks for a bit to me.
Same goes for the "spicy food" thing, they can enjoy spicy ones more, but I don't exactly approve if they call non-spicy foods as bad or uneatable (to themselves yeah, but can't speak on the same behalf for others), or especially call those who doesn't like spicy ones (actually... that's me) are bad to not enjoy what they think are good/better. There's very, very little I'll preemptively judge on a Kamen Rider show. I try to give everything a fair shot, even if it's a trope or a type that I've never enjoyed. Saya... I hope I'm being fair to her?
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