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01-29-2014, 06:44 PM | #8771 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
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So can I just watch the Begins Night portion of the movie and then just jump straight into the show, then? The Wiki says its the true beginning of the series, and takes place between episodes 14 and 15. So should I just jump back in at episode 13 to refresh my memory?
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01-29-2014, 07:02 PM | #8772 |
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Thanks guys!!! This should keep us busy!! Can't wait!!
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01-29-2014, 07:06 PM | #8773 |
I'm an agile cat.
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You remember how I mentioned W starts right in the action? It starts with them running in the building and Shotaro's boss gets shot, then it fast-forwards to them already active and used to W? Begins Night actually shows his origin and expands the backstory/plants seeds for future arcs. I'd say jumping in at 13 is a safe bet. Can't remember what arc that is. (so long as it's not "Heaven's Tornado" ) Beware, Gaim is NOT typical Rider. It's much more fast-paced. Where Gaim is now, most shows don't reach until the final leg. So try not to compare it to them too much. Last edited by SPLIT LIP; 01-29-2014 at 07:09 PM.. |
01-29-2014, 07:14 PM | #8774 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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Apparently episode 13 is the beginning of the Question arc. So it seems the perfect place to jump back in, as its the start of a brief arc.
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01-29-2014, 07:27 PM | #8775 |
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And if they're not true heroes until the end, they can't really be truly heroic in the middle. Right? Quote:
That's all fine and dandy, but seeing as riders still fight a monster every week, I don't see why they always have to be late to the action.
Why couldn't Kiva have arrived to save everyone, verses arriving to see them freshly drained? And why does he not care? Where's the bigger fish? He doesn't give a shit about ANYTHING. Ditto Agito, who hardly ever even acknowledged the fact that he was a rider to the point where I thought he didn't know, not that he was selfishly and moronically ignoring it in favour of his God-damn tomatoes. I think being reactionary is a facet of any hero, and that's why groups like The Authority were created. That series illustrates why heroes can't be too proactive: because that way leads toward fascism. "We're going to stop you before you do anything wrong!" "How do you know I was about to do something wrong?" "You're the type to do wrong!" "I haven't done wrong, you can't punish me just because you think my type is prone to doing wrong things." "No, I can, because my moral authority is unimpeachable!" Since they're not able to predict the future, is it morally justifiable for a hero to draw first blood or throw the first punch? That said, it is pretty weird how unfeeling Kiva tends to be in the face of all this outright murder. But I don't judge that show like I judge other shows -- so little of it makes any logical sense. Quote:
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If Kiva was truely apathetic, and was a dark, selfish person and, say, Shizuka was the justice-filled one goading him into saving people before fighting a monster, that'd be different. That'd be brillaint, really. If an average person saw this power being used so selfishly and tried to make Kiva more heroic. That'd be a really good idea, and fit with the suit well.
Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 01-29-2014 at 07:41 PM.. |
01-29-2014, 07:43 PM | #8776 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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As long as it's not gross stale peanut butter they stuff in a lot of PB/Chocolate candy. Quote:
Well, filler is its own problem. Ongoing American stories have lots of filler too. That's an accessibility issue, at least in America. Networks don't like stories that are too complex (which any 24 hour series where every episode is story-centric would be) because it alienates potential new viewers. I feel like that applies doubly to a kids' show.
Like I said, every episode the rider kills a monster. Why can't he just once get there in time? Kiva was able to save his rocker friend, but that actually hurts his case. Only when someone he cared for personally was in danger did he act with enough speed to save him. Quote:
And if they're not true heroes until the end, they can't really be true heroes in the middle. Right?
There is no set model of "true hero." That's why I love W. "Nobody's perfect" Narumi Sokichi says. There is no use setting a standard you cannot achieve. There is no shame in not being the best at everything. Being a hero is not a checklist. W was a true hero from the beginning. Being a true hero is not about skill, or knowledge. It's about the will to act. THAT is heroism. Saving people is heroism. Feeling for the people you save or cannot save is heroism. Want, regret, action, for others. That's heroism. That is what too many riders lack. Quote:
I guess I'm not really understanding this complaint. Unless they're clairvoyant, how is it possible for a hero to know trouble is going to break out before it does?
If you're not going to deconstruct heroes being reactionary, stop writing them as ineffectual heroes. Stop making up situations where people die if you're not going to analyze it or have a reason for people dying. If they just die because, that's bad writing. Quote:
Since they're not able to predict the future, is it morally justifiable for a hero to draw first blood or throw the first punch?
But no, there is no moral standing with the majority of Kamen Rider monsters. Especially the Fangire, who've always killed someone in the past before re-emerging in the present. Drawing first blood on a creature who's entire existence is cruelty and death is not a problem. Letting them kill time and again, is. Quote:
That said, it is pretty weird how unfeeling Kiva tends to be in the face of all this outright murder.
It's not that murder and death happen, it's that he never reacts. It's just some ambient, normal thing to him, but as I said, not in a deconstructive way. Last edited by SPLIT LIP; 01-29-2014 at 07:47 PM.. |
01-29-2014, 08:03 PM | #8777 |
Banned
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Location: Central Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha
Wataru is a bit autistic isn't he?
Oddly enough, some of Hajime's dialogue came across as this: he felt compassion for Amane and her mother and a sense of responsibility toward keeping them safe, but he didn't understand why. He knew the reason was that Spirit was influencing him, all while he tried to grasp the human aspect of it all. |
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01-29-2014, 08:08 PM | #8778 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,020
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Things is, Wataru never even acknowledges it.
You guys treat this like a deconstructive element, but the show never does that. Wataru is not autistic, they just write him the way he is because they think it's funny. No secret or thought behind it, just sloppy writing. You're giving the show far too much credit. |
01-29-2014, 08:59 PM | #8779 |
Neon Blade Outlaw
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Californa
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I think being reactionary is a facet of any hero, and that's why groups like The Authority were created. That series illustrates why heroes can't be too proactive: because that way leads toward fascism. "We're going to stop you before you do anything wrong!" "How do you know I was about to do something wrong?" "You're the type to do wrong!" "I haven't done wrong, you can't punish me just because you think my type is prone to doing wrong things." "No, I can, because my moral authority is unimpeachable!"
I used to be part of the MUGEN community and let me tell you right now they hate DC Heroes because they feel they embody the tracts of the Authority. Personally I don't agree with this statement and feel that Marvel heroes spend more time twilling their thumbs and worst beating each other up for stupid reason. Thou DC tends to be like that too, just not as much as Marvel. I think given how American comics can be is why Riders are that way: to just deal with certain problems and not give a hoot towards anyone that dies. It's jarring, but it seems shows like W are bucking that tread. |
01-29-2014, 09:09 PM | #8780 |
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Fair enough.
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I'd argue that Wataru's main flaw is his passivity, of which reluctance to involve himself in the Fangire conflict is a part. This timidity is the hurdle he must leap to become the hero he needs to be. Me? Wrong??? Blasphemy! Quote:
W was a true hero from the beginning. Being a true hero is not about skill, or knowledge. It's about the will to act. THAT is heroism. Saving people is heroism. Feeling for the people you save or cannot save is heroism. Want, regret, action, for others. That's heroism. That is what too many riders lack.
I think you're right about Shotaro/W. He (and really all of the neo-Heisei primary Riders, come to think of it) is set up as a hero from the get-go. What I disagree with is the notion that all Riders should follow the same heroic-up-front model. I find it interesting, from a character perspective, that earlier Riders generally had to overcome a hurdle that prevented them from being a hero -- whether that hurdle was a lack of self-confidence, arrogance, selfishness, ignorance, or passivity. I'm not saying Shotaro/Phillip isn't a flawed guy, but his flaws don't obstruct his innate heroism. Other Riders are not innately heroic, and I find the various journeys from jerk/idiot/coward to hero over the course of a series to be pretty fulfilling. Though I admit, maybe there aren't enough pure heroes in this hero franchise. And maybe that's the point of this whole discussion. Quote:
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If these weren't monsters who exist merely to kill and destroy, you might have a point.
But no, there is no moral standing with the majority of Kamen Rider monsters. Especially the Fangire, who've always killed someone in the past before re-emerging in the present. Drawing first blood on a creature who's entire existence is cruelty and death is not a problem. Letting them kill time and again, is. At the end of the day, I see what you're saying. Maybe the franchise could stand to have a few more Ws and a few fewer Kivas. But I still think the jerk/idiot/loser-to-hero arc is more compelling (to me) than the hero-reinforces-his-own-heroism arc. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 01-29-2014 at 09:12 PM.. |
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