|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
03-09-2020, 07:48 PM | #131 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
That's why the first thing I mentioned was Takeru's development! He's so strong in that arc! Almost every one of those episodes is some major step forward (and occasionally backwards) for him, and what I loved most about Specter's initial rival phase was specifically how it reflects on Takeru. The character interactions in Ghost early on are tight, and the main cast build on each other excellently. As a mysterious adversary, Specter forces Takeru to get his s*** together when it comes to the hero thing, and as a long lost friend who's been suffering immensely, Makoto gives Takeru a chance to prove his dedication to helping people, even when they're shooting at him and stealing his stuff. Which is probably not very smart, and also so wonderfully, distinctly Takeru.
I'm speaking for myself here, obviously, but I've always felt Takeru had to take a real journey to get the point where he's willing to throw away his chance at getting his life back to save Kanon's. Maybe that comes off weak to some people because "well, obviously the hero is going to do that", but to me, it was always less about his moral capacity for that kind of thing (which he had from the start), and more about having the courage to go through with it (which he definitely did not), and that was constantly being challenged throughout the first dozen episodes in ways I found super interesting. Makoto, I mean, I love the guy, but he's just another supporting character to help show why the real star is worth caring about. And speaking of Takeru's friends, I'm going to go ahead and mention while I've got the chance that, as for Akari only becoming defensible in the back half? One of her coolest moments came before the series even hit the double digit episodes: And that's just one of them! Quote:
I sincerely appreciate your ability to argue for what's worked for you in these shows. It's always contrary, but it's never just contrary, so it's fun to talk about.
__________________
|
03-09-2020, 10:59 PM | #132 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Quote:
Anyway, I think this is going to be one of those agree-to-disagree situations. To me, the speed at which the show burned through plot points in the early going kept me from being able to get a sense of either Takeru's character or any growth thereof. It was a lot of Things Happening, but not a lot of Things Mattering. I feel like the show just assumed a connection between the audience and Takeru, so they skipped over a lot of helpful character building in favor of rocketing through Eyecons and showcasing his feud with Specter. All of the stuff about Makoto's desperation and dedication reflecting on Takeru, man, I'm just not sure I saw that, at least not in a way that made me connect with Takeru. Mostly in a way where I was like Makoto Is Making A Lot Good Points Re: Assaulting Takeru. But where I can't disagree was Takeru choosing to sacrifice his resurrection for Kanon. That, yep, got it, understood why he'd make that choice, loved that show did it, loved how zen he was afterwards... but felt like they used up a lot of that good will with his dad just being like What If I Became A New Coat For You To Wear And Also I'm Bringing You Back To Life For A Few More Weeks Go Get Those Eyecons Again. But, like, that moment, when he decides to save Kanon, I can't imagine how someone could dislike that choice, or dislike Takeru for making it. Like, what franchise do they think they're watching?! It's just, for me, all of the arc stuff that defines Takeru's character, that uses a supporting cast member and secondary Rider to codify and personalize his heroism, all of that is in the Alain/GanmaWorld arc. Everything you're saying about how one character's unwavering desire to save someone else reflects on Takeru, or how his heroism comes into a starker relief, like, he does all of that with Alain, and they both come out looking better for it! It's tough for me to fly the flag for the Makoto/Takeru arc as some character defining high-point, when the Alain/Takeru arc is sitting right there. I will say, though, that Makoto's best stuff is in the first dozen episodes. Once Kanon gets to live outside his pocket (uh), it's like the show never had a great second act for him. He got a little lost in the shuffle, narratively. It's so weird to be doing so much thinking about Ghost after all of these months. I'm digging it, though! It's nice remembering the good things PHOENIX LIKE A PHOENIX THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
03-10-2020, 05:04 AM | #133 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
Which is fair enough. I mean, just the fact that your example of a way Ghost could've done something better is also from Ghost is good enough for me. As someone who loves Ghost with the same kind of fervor as people who hate it, I'm still insanely appreciative of your ability to be critical of what you felt didn't work in it without denying the parts you felt did.
__________________
|
03-10-2020, 06:00 AM | #134 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
|
Quote:
The fights and finishers, it's... this goes back to the need for balance, it's like punctuation when it's used correctly. If they've told their story well, with recognizable emotions and coherent themes, if they're saying something worth listening to, when they HENSHIN and brawl and detonate a monster, it feels like the exclamation mark on the sentence. When the villains get the upper hand, when the heroes get the floor wiped with their faces, that beating becomes an ellipsis, the story holding its breath or teasing out a pause.
For the collectibles, I got mad at Ghost for doing them badly, not for doing them at all. Like, I love that shit. I unironically love Gashats and Eyecons and Shift Cars and all of that. It's totally for kids, but, y'know, so is Kamen Rider? What keeps me coming back to Kamen Rider, what keeps me watching series and falling in love all over again, it's how it's a franchise designed to sell toys to children AND a vehicle for exploring the need for empathy, the horrors of war, the value of cooperation, and a limitless number of other themes. I wouldn't want a Kamen Rider show to sacrifice either one of those ingredients to add more of the other. Quote:
Like, I think calling out Makoto's development in the first dozen episodes is maybe another way of pointing out what really didn't work for me in those first string of episodes: Makoto isn't the main character, Takeru is. If the secondary Rider has the most complex, exciting storyline at the beginning of your show, something went real wrong. There's totally a place for the non-title Riders to take the spotlight, and that's after the winter movie. I mean, the Alain arc! That's when you want to see more from the other Riders, because you've already shown the audience why they should care about the main Rider. With Ghost, I feel like they didn't really start making Takeru interesting until after they made Makoto interesting and as they were making Alain interesting. Takeru, for me in the beginning, felt like a secondary Rider who was inexplicably given more screen time than the primary Rider.
Last edited by DreadBringer; 03-10-2020 at 10:46 AM.. |
03-10-2020, 10:42 AM | #135 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Quote:
Which is fair enough. I mean, just the fact that your example of a way Ghost could've done something better is also from Ghost is good enough for me. As someone who loves Ghost with the same kind of fervor as people who hate it, I'm still insanely appreciative of your ability to be critical of what you felt didn't work in it without denying the parts you felt did.
Quote:
Nothing wrong to me too for more collectibles like Shift Cars (as a car enthusiast, Gaia Memory, Gashat, etc. What I dislike is doing them badly like underutilizing the diverse powersets provided by the collectibles (well, all the Rider powers are provided by the collectibles, so more collectibles = more power) which means just bring up that collectible to use once, then never use it again, especially for more advanced forms that has cool combinations like Fourze Cosmic States.
Quote:
More like that for KR formula, the primary Rider should be the goody-two-shoes, the secondary one is more free and commonly filled with darker, grim, more anti-heroic character, even if the secondary is more interesting and fleshed out. Well, there are series that doesn't follow this like Kabuto or Faiz (Tendou and Takumi are jerks), but most do.
The Makoto thing, it's just that, to me, his goal seemed more immediate and personal, while Takeru's seemed less so. I realize I'm suggesting that Takeru not wanting to disappear seemed impersonal and inconsequential, and a lot of that was down to how the show portrayed Takeru in those early episodes. With Makoto, I got what he was fighting for and I could see the lengths he'd go to. It wasn't that him being darker and tortured was inherently more interesting (not generally my type, when it comes to Riders), it was that there was a clarity to his actions and an energy to the performance that really popped in those early days. Honestly, I think my favorite secondary Riders are the total weirdos and goofballs. Beast and Birth are two of my favorite Kamen Riders and they are thoroughly weird and incredibly genial. Like, Ex-Aid's awesome for having a group of secondary Riders whose wiki subcategory could just be A Group Of Assholes. They're variously guilt-ridden and vengeful, but it's mostly that they're pricks? I don't know. I find it hard to take Dark, Serious Riders seriously, so any show that wants to play around with that type gets me excited. It's maybe a testament to either how terrific the Makoto story was or how little I enjoyed the start of the Takeru story that Specter was my favorite thing about those episodes.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
|
TokuNation News & Rumors |
Kakuranger: 30 Years After |
ToyRise RyuKenDo |
Alternative Cut of "Day Of The Dumpster" Released |
Shodo SUPER Kyoryuger Teaser |
Figuarts/Seihou GRIDMAN |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.
|