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01-04-2019, 04:59 PM | #11 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,420
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There are only two changes I would make to the show at this point (but I reserve the right to change my mind in the future if things don't improve much and/or get worse):
Firstly, I would have established Sougo's dream in the first or second episode. Knowing that he had a prophetic vision would have made his whole king motivation feel like it had a basis instead of just being some random delusion. Second, I would get rid of Geiz's stupid dickie. That thing needs to die in a fire, like, yesterday. |
01-04-2019, 06:41 PM | #12 |
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01-04-2019, 06:55 PM | #13 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
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Oh, and if anyone goes "Time travel badly written, do better writing for time travel!" then I'm afraid you aren't aware how ridiculously easy it is to fuck up time travel plots
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01-04-2019, 08:06 PM | #14 |
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I wouldn't call Gaim good personally but remember, people love it for it's darker take with Urobuchi on board. Yet at the point Zi-O is now, Gaim was still about silly dance offs, no? So if someone didn't watch past that and called Gaim nonsensical kiddy stuff, would that be deemed enough to rewrite the entire show? Of course not! If Zi-O ends up being literally the worst after it's finished, which I doubt, THEN you can do this kind of thread.
Oh, and if anyone goes "Time travel badly written, do better writing for time travel!" then I'm afraid you aren't aware how ridiculously easy it is to fuck up time travel plots |
01-04-2019, 08:36 PM | #15 |
Comin' up OOOs!
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: A place where imports are impossible to find, NY
Posts: 2,431
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As much as I love series like Gaim and Ex-Aid and Build, I honestly think they've spoiled people in terms of what they expect from every series.
Everyone wants each new series to be 100% perfect with complex characters and high-level story-telling from the start when that's just not how works with some stories and scenarios. For example, everyone holds Gaim on a pedestal, but it didn't get serious and start opening up what was really happening until about 12 episodes in. Ex-Aid you can say didn't really get serious until Genm killed Kiriya, which happened in the same episode as a literal Christmas musical number. While on the flipside, Build's storyline and plot direction meant it would be fairly complex from the get-go while its supplementary material and some later developments lead to silliness. Toku's one of those mediums where, like it or not, you need to give it leeway before you really know if you're gonna enjoy it or not. That's just how these series work. Expecting to be totally satisfied and drawn in right out the gate's not possible imo. Last edited by Shin Henshin; 01-04-2019 at 08:38 PM.. |
01-04-2019, 09:08 PM | #16 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
As much as I love series like Gaim and Ex-Aid and Build, I honestly think they've spoiled people in terms of what they expect from every series.
Everyone wants each new series to be 100% perfect with complex characters and high-level story-telling from the start when that's just not how works with some stories and scenarios. For example, everyone holds Gaim on a pedestal, but it didn't get serious and start opening up what was really happening until about 12 episodes in. Ex-Aid you can say didn't really get serious until Genm killed Kiriya, which happened in the same episode as a literal Christmas musical number. While on the flipside, Build's storyline and plot direction meant it would be fairly complex from the get-go while its supplementary material and some later developments lead to silliness. Toku's one of those mediums where, like it or not, you need to give it leeway before you really know if you're gonna enjoy it or not. That's just how these series work. Expecting to be totally satisfied and drawn in right out the gate's not possible imo. |
01-05-2019, 07:24 AM | #17 |
Most-hated user. Kill him
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Imaginationland
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Maybe not so, but it's a sign of a good show if you're drawn in straight away. Even I know the first 10 or so episodes are supposed to establish the world we're in and have a feel for the characters while planting seeds for the plot ahead. But if people are not enjoying it, then it's their choice to not like it and not watch it or have problems with it. Some people aren't going to wait for a show to find it's footing if they're not invested in it.
So the best way is that we can hope Zi-O would follow this two shows. I guess most of us are worried it might be the another Ghost :P
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01-05-2019, 08:22 AM | #18 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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I actually wonder if that plot point is something that was intended the whole time or not, because it seems so obvious to me to have that be part of the first episode's opening I can't think of any other reason they wouldn't have done exactly that. Get rid of that bit with the elephant T-Rex and stick that in there instead and we could've avoided so many of Sougo's growing pains as a character.
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01-05-2019, 08:34 AM | #19 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
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Maybe not so, but it's a sign of a good show if you're drawn in straight away. Even I know the first 10 or so episodes are supposed to establish the world we're in and have a feel for the characters while planting seeds for the plot ahead. But if people are not enjoying it, then it's their choice to not like it and not watch it or have problems with it. Some people aren't going to wait for a show to find it's footing if they're not invested in it.
In Tokusatsu, we can contrast with something like Nininger. People really liked the first quarter of that show, but by the end, it was detested (rightfully so, imo, but whatever.) So to go "The first 10 episodes of this 50 episode show suck, therefore the whole show will be a mess and needs a complete rewrite is a little bit of a fallacy. Yes, it's fair to say there are ways to first arc could be rewritten, but would it really be much better? With the need to fit the ridewatch selling, the past rider cameos, and character development on top of that, especially when people are still on a high from Build and Ex-Aid. The difference with Den-O is that Den-O really isn't a show about time travel. It has time travel in it, sure, but they never dive too deeply into it. For 80% of the series, the only use is "The Imagin dives ten years ago and we get to see the problem of the Side Character of the Week". Ore Tanjou is an exception, but you can easily raise questions about that too. Of course, for the final 20%, we get stuff like the difference between Sakurai and Yuuto (Big confuse) and whatever Kai's plan with the Junction Point is. Whereas Zi-O has time travel play a big part in the weekly plots, and that makes people try to overthink it more.
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Last edited by AkibaSilver; 01-05-2019 at 08:40 AM.. |
01-05-2019, 09:43 AM | #20 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,186
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Quote:
Quote:
As much as I love series like Gaim and Ex-Aid and Build, I honestly think they've spoiled people in terms of what they expect from every series.
Everyone wants each new series to be 100% perfect with complex characters and high-level story-telling from the start when that's just not how works with some stories and scenarios. For example, everyone holds Gaim on a pedestal, but it didn't get serious and start opening up what was really happening until about 12 episodes in. Ex-Aid you can say didn't really get serious until Genm killed Kiriya, which happened in the same episode as a literal Christmas musical number. While on the flipside, Build's storyline and plot direction meant it would be fairly complex from the get-go while its supplementary material and some later developments lead to silliness. Toku's one of those mediums where, like it or not, you need to give it leeway before you really know if you're gonna enjoy it or not. That's just how these series work. Expecting to be totally satisfied and drawn in right out the gate's not possible imo. I think the reason I'm so lenient on Zi-O is because I already prematurely decided not to expect nearly as much with Build, who had an experienced writer for a beloved TV show beforehand and the fact Zi-O clearly was going to have a time travel theme which never makes any fucking sense
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