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03-17-2020, 03:12 PM | #101 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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Throwing my hat into the disscusion of sequels and how it impacts the original show. I was never against any kind sequel it always down to execution. The Another Ending imo is good becuase I liked Kuroto Dan as a villain moreso than Masamune so to me going back to it felt right. Versus Build New World Cross-Z I feel tears down everything the finale of Build did. Everyone gets thier memories back, Evolt back, Sento and Banjo are no longer the Best Match,Pandora Box is still around, they might as well brought back the SkyWall by giving back the status que. I didn't enjoy it all tge retcons in that movie made no sense. Wheras the Another Ending retcons made more sense the fight in Snipe Episode Zero, Dr.Pacman having daugther, further exploration of the Dan Family. With Cross-Z we already retcon Evolt involvement in Be The One with the other members of the Blood Tribe but they continue butting with him being the one to kill Ryuga parents feels off.(Admittely not my strongest argument I was going to use Ryuki but I'm refraining to not want to accidently spoling something)
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03-17-2020, 03:29 PM | #102 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Nothing's ever completely resolved and there's always remnants hiding in the shadows. I can totally believe that there would be some threat out there after the end of any given Rider series that our heroes would have to fight against, and that doesn't invalidate their stories or the value of an ending; it's something we could easily have assumed without the need of a Returns movie fleshing out the idea or a teamup movie giving us new antagonists. Our heroes still saved lives, still developed as people, still formed bonds and had their journey together -- it's just that there's other things remaining.
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For returns movies specifically, they've got an interesting framing device to most of them: they always put a secondary rider in the spotlight. Now, I'm not saying that Chase or Hiiro weren't fully fleshed out riders who needed a movie to make them good characters; what I'm saying is that they were still secondary characters and hence while they had their own journeys, it was still Shinnosuke and Emu whose stories their series were about. So Returns movies can feel less like retreads in this sense because it's now positioning different people as the main characters.
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03-17-2020, 03:31 PM | #103 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Throwing my hat into the disscusion of sequels and how it impacts the original show. I was never against any kind sequel it always down to execution. The Another Ending imo is good becuase I liked Kuroto Dan as a villain moreso than Masamune so to me going back to it felt right. Versus Build New World Cross-Z I feel tears down everything the finale of Build did. Everyone gets thier memories back, Evolt back, Sento and Banjo are no longer the Best Match,Pandora Box is still around, they might as well brought back the SkyWall by giving back the status que. I didn't enjoy it all tge retcons in that movie made no sense. Wheras the Another Ending retcons made more sense the fight in Snipe Episode Zero, Dr.Pacman having daugther, further exploration of the Dan Family. With Cross-Z we already retcon Evolt involvement in Be The One with the other members of the Blood Tribe but they continue butting with him being the one to kill Ryuga parents feels off.(Admittely not my strongest argument I was going to use Ryuki but I'm refraining to not want to accidently spoling something)
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
03-17-2020, 03:34 PM | #104 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I think, if I may be so bold; this has essentially just led us to the conclusion that it's better for Returns movies to be more personal stories focused around secondary characters that don't feature bigger threats. I'd be down for that!
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03-17-2020, 03:39 PM | #105 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I would one-hundred percent be on board with that approach. Like, OOO story, for me, that's over. You want to do an Akira Date film, that dude's adventures? NO COMPLAINTS!
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03-17-2020, 04:07 PM | #106 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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This is pretty much why the W Returns movies worked in that sense -- Eternal's was basically a flashback, and Accel's was just about some other criminal while W is barely involved!
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03-17-2020, 04:22 PM | #107 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Overall, my distaste for follow-up films, even ones that I think do a good/fun job, it's mostly for what they could portend. If we're okay letting films like Grease and Cross-Z continue the story of Build, how long until we get a legit Build movie? I just, I wish that Legend Riders could just be a thing in other peoples' movies. An unbreakable law. I feel like we're slowly inching towards Movies Forever, and stories that never end, and eventually are designed to not end, neverending franchises. I don't want Kamen Rider to become that, I got enough of that shit in my life. I can get a little alarmist because of that. I think most of the follow-ups we've gotten, honestly, more good than bad. (BRAIN!) I just worry, is all.
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03-17-2020, 05:00 PM | #108 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 462
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Although some of the villain plots and so on can be bad in teamups generally it really annoys me if I never get to see what happens to the characters after the final episode! For some reason I feel like I almost care more about the characters and story than the actual fights, I don't know if that's odd but when Decade never attempted any kind of continuation for most of Kuuga-Kiva it genuinely ruined most of the show for me, that's why Zi-O annoyed me less! Maybe kids aren't put off if it's just the suit and a different voice actor in a teamup but for some reason it just feels pointless to me.
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03-17-2020, 11:04 PM | #109 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Although some of the villain plots and so on can be bad in teamups generally it really annoys me if I never get to see what happens to the characters after the final episode! For some reason I feel like I almost care more about the characters and story than the actual fights, I don't know if that's odd but when Decade never attempted any kind of continuation for most of Kuuga-Kiva it genuinely ruined most of the show for me, that's why Zi-O annoyed me less! Maybe kids aren't put off if it's just the suit and a different voice actor in a teamup but for some reason it just feels pointless to me.
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03-18-2020, 01:39 AM | #110 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Quote:
You've got a point about the Another Endings getting a bit of a pass for bringing back Kuroto. He's so fun, he's so much better than his dad to me. It's just, this is another scheme built off of the back of all of his other schemes. There's an unfortunate sense of Here We Go Again, and I don't think that's where a production team wants its characters to be.
While Kuroto had Genm Level Billion who can pull entire moon. I think that looks stronger than even his own kick attack. Besides I'm glad that Kuroto stays as a villain. To me he never feels as someone who can turn into new leaf, like what evil deeds he's done before rivals Masamune's (like being apeshit over someone else creating Gashat??), and that he only sided with the heroes because they have mutual benefits and goals. Quote:
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I can see why you'd think of it that way, but for me it never really feels that way for one particular reason: like I said, the main story is over. But in-universe, that story is not all there is to the lives of our heroes and the machinations of our villains; and many Rider series leave it open that way.
Nothing's ever completely resolved and there's always remnants hiding in the shadows. I can totally believe that there would be some threat out there after the end of any given Rider series that our heroes would have to fight against, and that doesn't invalidate their stories or the value of an ending; it's something we could easily have assumed without the need of a Returns movie fleshing out the idea or a teamup movie giving us new antagonists. Our heroes still saved lives, still developed as people, still formed bonds and had their journey together -- it's just that there's other things remaining. I also want to know how will Parado act now tbh, he now isn't human's enemy anymore, but he cares about Bugsters like go apeshit on how Kuroto killed Burgmon, concerned over Salty being deleted by Cronus, etc. Quote:
... this is all in principle and theory, anyway. Another Ending: Brave & Snipe was a very dire movie that at best just retold the development of Hiiro and Taiga by regressing them and making pretty rubbish and dissatisfying choices, to the extent that I could barely tell you a thing about the movie other than remembering that one scene where Taiga became Chronus again. i don't even remember why he did.
But you know! It could have been good! It could have been a new story about these characters that put them in the spotlight and hence wouldn't feel like they were retconning or retelling their journeys! It could have been... Which makes me wonder, do Kamen Rider Chronicle play out like this; the player, other than completing the game, continually rise up their Bugster virus to the point that they can use Bugvisor without problem and bring out the best potential in Cronus, other than that, what's the purpose of Pause if Gamedeus is immune to it? Quote:
The entire thing that defines melodrama is a reliance on exaggerated, sensationalized stortytelling, so I'd say that falls under what I'm talking about. For me, though, I guess I just don't think he's necessarily that bad at it? Those absurdly overdone bits of drama and comedy definitely don't always land, but when they do, they can be genuinely impactful.
I will say he's at his best when he decides to balance all that out with a lighter touch here and there though. Good to see you getting an early start on not being let down by Ex-Aid on a rewatch! It's a strong premiere, to be sure. I wouldn't call it the best, thanks to stiff competition from, like, Fourze and Build and maybe Drive or Wizard or Black or- Well, there are plenty of good first episodes of Kamen Rider is the point. But Ex-Aid, I maintain, has ridiculously great structure, and its premiere benefits from the show's usual lack of wasted space. Like you said, it fits pretty much everything you need, and little you don't. Late about this but surely Ex-Aid captures the video game theme very well here, and even combining them with virus that doctors have to deal. It's suit design may not be for everyone but even that captures the retro gaming feels. I probably will reply on Die's review of Episode 1 Ex-Aid in the next few posts. |
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