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10-30-2020, 03:59 AM | #491 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,546
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Instead of explaining it, I’ll just post this screen cap I posted when I watched the episode.
And as for Armed Hibiki being a radical departure from everything beforehand in every way? I think that’s kind of the point. For hundreds of years, the Oni in Kantō have basically had a strict status quo for dealing with Makamou (a set of parents plant the egg somewhere out in the wilds, the Oni find them, kill the parents and then wipe out the monster as it hatches) but the Makamou’s bosses have changed the rules, by creating Makamou that are born fully grown to directly attack people and having their only oversight coming from the Super Douji and Hime, who have a lot more intelligence that the normal version and the clones who were previously providing oversight (though not by much). You could say “but they already beat one of the new breed once”, but to quote from Toy Story 3 “they got lucky once”. There’s no guarantee they can go on beating a new threat with old methods. It’s kind of a theme in shows with a heavy Japanese influence and a legacy theme that the heroes do better against the bad guys when they try something new or previously thought impossible instead of relying on the ancestors’ methods forever. And now, for the next time lyrics. And I told you to be patient And I told you to be fine And I told you to be balanced And I told you to be kind And in the morning I'll be with you But it will be a different kind And I'll be holding all the tickets And you'll be owning all the fines - Bon Iver, Skinny Love |
10-30-2020, 04:40 AM | #492 |
Master Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 367
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Quote:
I thought Crimson's in-story deployment was narratively tricky, but I think the suit and its origin were pretty well supported, thematically. They add up to a Better Hibiki because he trained super hard, and also it's seasonal! That's a very Hibiki way of doing a power-up!
Otherwise, yeah, it's far better thematically than Armed, but still obviously forced in there for toy sales. It just displays the different in writing teams, I think. |
10-30-2020, 09:30 AM | #493 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,403
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Quote:
Armed Saber is an anomaly because it's a power-up item that Inoue actually wrote in how and why it shows up, instead of having it appear out of thin air and then never questioned again. (I liked it's movie origins more though, which is more contrived but slightly more thematically fitting. Slightly!)
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10-30-2020, 10:04 AM | #494 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,078
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Okay, I said I was going to complain about Hibiki's final form when it showed up. Here we go.
Before that, I want to start with Kurenai as a comparison. Despite a few minor complaints, I ultimately like Kurenai for what it can do and what it represents. I like how Hibiki unlocks it by training hard, which reflects the show's moral. I like how it's an organic progression from the default form in both aesthetic and fighting style, which reflects the show's theme of nature. I like how it can make goddamn self-exploding Ongekikos! Compared to that, Armed is a disappointment. It's one of my least favorite final forms and I feel like it belongs in a different show. I don't like how it screws up Kurenai's design by making it heavier when they could have used a different base and color to distinguish it. I don't like how it requires a special weapon. I don't like how it makes the mouthplate even more impractical since Armed Saber is voice-activated. I don't like how it's a technological upgrade when Oni and Makamou are supposed to be forces of nature with only a little assistance from technology. It doesn't make much sense to me, even the training part for using Armed Saber since Hibiki doesn't seem much stronger, physically, after becoming Armed. It's just so meh. Anyway, yeah, Fuse Akira, the singer of Shounen Yo, is Kogure, as Androzani84 pointed out. If you think he looks familiar, I'm not sure where, since it's his voice that was the major clue to his identity.
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10-30-2020, 11:23 AM | #495 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,157
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Quote:
Armed Saber is an anomaly because it's a power-up item that Inoue actually wrote in how and why it shows up, instead of having it appear out of thin air and then never questioned again. (I liked it's movie origins more though, which is more contrived but slightly more thematically fitting. Slightly!)
Oh! Okay! Neat! Quote:
And as for Armed Hibiki being a radical departure from everything beforehand in every way? I think that’s kind of the point. For hundreds of years, the Oni in Kantō have basically had a strict status quo for dealing with Makamou (a set of parents plant the egg somewhere out in the wilds, the Oni find them, kill the parents and then wipe out the monster as it hatches) but the Makamou’s bosses have changed the rules, by creating Makamou that are born fully grown to directly attack people and having their only oversight coming from the Super Douji and Hime, who have a lot more intelligence that the normal version and the clones who were previously providing oversight (though not by much). You could say “but they already beat one of the new breed once”, but to quote from Toy Story 3 “they got lucky once”. There’s no guarantee they can go on beating a new threat with old methods. It’s kind of a theme in shows with a heavy Japanese influence and a legacy theme that the heroes do better against the bad guys when they try something new or previously thought impossible instead of relying on the ancestors’ methods forever.
For one, it comes from Kogure, who is specifically called out by Hibiki as being the archetypal Old And Traditional Japanese Man. If the point of Armed Saber was to show Takeshi trying new things or considering different approaches, I'm not sure it works in a story if it comes from a guy who demands things be done the way he did them as an Oni. Second, Armed Saber shows up at the same time the upgraded Douji and Hime show up, just as the pattern is changing. But we find out in 33 that the Armed Saber was being tested a month ago, which means it must've been in the design phase even earlier... way before the Makamou plot changed, and back when the Oni had things well in hand. There wasn't anything in-story that suggested that the Oni desperately needed some new piece of tech to even the odds. Third, it's just not how this show ever treated Getting Better as a concept? Hibiki's whole thing is about training yourself to handle problems and challenges. Having do a brief training session and then handing him a super-powerful sword... what is the lesson there? What about that speaks to Hibiki's resilience, or dedication, or drive? Kogure just makes him more powerful. Finally, it gives the drum guy a sword, and I will never feel like that's a smart idea. Quote:
My big issue with that is, if you can get a powerup form just by training hard, why is Hibiki seemingly the only Oni every to have seemingly achieved this? It's not like he's the only Oni that trains hard!
Otherwise, yeah, it's far better thematically than Armed, but still obviously forced in there for toy sales. It just displays the different in writing teams, I think. I thought he was some Kuuga cop I'd forgotten about. His singing voice honestly didn't click with me!
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10-30-2020, 11:30 AM | #496 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Something nice I will note about Armed that does fit the show is that it feels more like armour on top of the suit; rather than the suit itself being upgraded -- that's a rarity outside of specific toyline stuff like Gaim's Arms. It's a good thing for this show since the suits, of all Riders; are the most explicitly stated to literally be the Riders' transformed bodies and hence an upgrade being armour on top of that feels very natural. I also like that the disc animals form it, that's kind of neat.
... shame about the rest, though!
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10-30-2020, 05:45 PM | #497 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I was hoping to dig up some concept art or something to show, but the original idea for Hibiki's final form was to do a "subtractive" upgrade, ditching the silver bits entirely, and doing some kind of fancy pattern with the colors of the body itself. This whole concept was then abandoned for the usual approach of slapping more bits on the costume, since kids would immediately get that.
The choice of Disc Animals (the most technologically advanced thing in the series) as a motif was conscious decision on the part of the designer to mollify a production team that was more than a little uncomfortable with the idea of their natural hero gaining such a mechanical new look. I know we've all been dogpiling on Armed Hibiki plenty already, but looking these things up seriously only reinforces everything I've ever felt about it as an embodiment of compromise. It's especially glaring in comparison to the sort of thought that went into the base suit. Did you guys know the reason Hibiki's mask doesn't have eyes is to give the impression that, as a hero who fights with sound, Hibiki wouldn't rely on his sense of sight? Because I'm pretty sure I never heard that until a few weeks ago and it blew my mind a little.
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10-30-2020, 05:58 PM | #498 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,386
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Quote:
It's especially glaring in comparison to the sort of thought that went into the base suit. Did you guys know the reason Hibiki's mask doesn't have eyes is to give the impression that, as a hero who fights with sound, Hibiki wouldn't rely on his sense of sight? Because I'm pretty sure I never heard that until a few weeks ago and it blew my mind a little.
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10-30-2020, 08:42 PM | #499 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,157
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KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI HYPER BATTLE VIDEO - "ASUMU, TRANSFORM - YOU CAN BECOME AN ONI, TOO!!"
"Hey, remember when We could save kittens from trees Or lunch on skyscrapers Bring the villains to their knees" -Say Hi, "Back Before We Were Brittle" I want to like this video! It's goofy and sweet and, sure, it's 80% clip show stuff, but it's a story that's about Asumu! It's just, it's a story about Asumu's burning desire to become an Oni that concludes with him using Armed Saber to destroy a reused monster suit and maaaaaaannnnn no. As with the last story, there's some fun surface stuff. Asumu's interactions with the disk animals are great, and make me sort of long for a version of this show where the disk animals had discrete personalities. I like how the snake one's an enthusiastic kid that the others don't like, or how the blue wolf/whatever one is all about carb loading. There's a lot of little goofy personality traits that made the recap stuff easier to stomach. (It is constructed in the most boring way possible, though. It functions like someone's reading a Wikipedia entry on these characters.) But the crux of this whole story is that Asumu's training hard to live his dream of becoming an Oni, and, no? Just, no? It could not get off on a worse foot than if Asumu was training to live his dream of being a cannibal, something that's roughly as supported within the last 33 episodes of Hibiki. It's such a dumb hook for a video, and while I can't ever get that mad at a story where Asumu rides a tricycle to impress judgmental toys, it just never ever worked for me. The whole premise feels ripped from a version of Kamen Rider Hibiki that never got made, and it's baffling that this was the story they went with for what's nominally a marketing outreach attempt. I get that it's a dream sequence or whatever (zero time given to how this even vaguely fits into continuity), but it's just not anything that the show ever put stock in, so it falls flat for me. If they want to steer Asumu's character in the direction of wanting to be an Oni, fine, but you can't just say He Really Wants To Be An Oni Now. Gotta set it up better than this. I mean, points for having Asumu need to bail out Sabaki, who had already broken Kogure's record by defeating 31 Makamou that day, but that's about all I can give this one.
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10-30-2020, 09:02 PM | #500 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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I like this special mainly because it from the 2nd half and there was no Kiriya. I do agree making Asumu a oni would probably be a mistake in the story. But this is non-canon special that never tries to connect to the show outside of recapping so I'll let it slide. Plus I just think it cool they had a mini Bibiki suit for the actor to wear when they were filming the helmetless scene. Also it'scool to see the Sabaki suit again
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