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05-01-2020, 01:40 AM | #671 |
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I'm reviewing the episode 50 first, I don't give a fuck if it's too late!
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I mean, it's hard to argue with turning a Contract Monster into a bike. Both Survives do it, and Alternative does it at one point. It's incredibly cool. I'll be honest, I still think I like Knight's Survive bike better. I think it's Knight's cape? Capes on bikes are totally impractical, which makes them awesome. It's like one better than a scarf, which is the minimum required neck attire for a motorcyclist.
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Goro's revealed as Zolda, fighting Ouja in Kitaoka's place. Goro has to fight, because Kitaoka has died, unable to finish the last piece of business he had in the Rider Battles. He felt responsible for making Asakura a Rider, and wanted to end that rivalry for good. But he's dead, lain to rest on his couch, holding a white rose.
The same type of white rose that's on the table in the restaurant where Reiko waits for Kitaoka, a snowstorm outside. She waits, and notices that one of Kitaoka's knives is askew. He'd hate that. So she turns it, straightens it, makes it perfect for him. A small gesture. He'd never know she did it. But she thought of him, and fixed it. Talking about the battles, Zolda gets completely finished there, with both Goro and Magnugiga being killed. I guess Ouja's kick also matters even if the main attack is Genocider's vortex. And I guess being rammed by 510kg robot can kill you even if you're a Rider. And if you don't know, there's 1 card that Kitaoka never used in the series. Even if Goro is a good hand-to-hand combatant, he still didn't use that, probably so that he doesn't take away the deception. Some sources outside said that Goro lost to Ouja because he's not that experienced as Rider unlike Kitaoka, but he's a good fighter right? And Rider only gives you super powers alongside your fighting (also Zolda was shown better at direct hand-to-hand in this fight). Quote:
Regarding the Rider War, now ORE Journal finally made a publication about the Rider War and Mirror Monsters, though they do it in their usual way of publishing it, just adding more infos. I feel bad that ORE Journal would likely be dismissed again via this news (and Shinji also has died). Continuing from before, there's also Okubo stating that “In this battle, there is no justice.”, “All that’s left is a genuine wish.”, “Those who question whether it was right or wrong…” like how he gets people before. But still... unfortunately for ORE Journal. A collection of death by irony here!
Yup, Shiro's an invincible villain. He and Odin can never be defeated (He's an intangible ghost, and Odin can be killed, but he can be continuously replaced, reviving like a Phoenix), except by himself stopping what he did. But, no, his pain IS the one you can defeat; at the end, it's revealed that he isn't any better off than his victims. What he wants is something that will always be out of his reach. Quote:
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In short, I don't think Shiro's really redeemed, he still only cares about his sister like usual, but he shows his care in different way, from R̶e̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ doing what he thinks (using how scary death is what they're going through as an excuse) is best for her, to doing what truly is best for her. It's just that Yui's someone who overall wants the best for the world. If Shiro's gonna fulfill what she wants, he's gotta do something that good, regardless of his morality (to others). It's that Yui's wants that came to play, Shiro, with his vast powers, is just the means to achieve that. Overall, the one fact every Ryuki fans seem to miss; Shinji won at the end. This is how he wins. He indirectly got what he wishes as a Rider (Tezuka as well), the war stopped, the people are safe. He manages to get the Riders to delay or even stop their fighting, delaying the war till the end of Yui's birthday, that the way they explain aside, the truth becomes forcefully uncovered, preventing Shiro from ever saving Yui at the cost of the lives of the Riders, and talking some sense into Shiro. Eventually, after many different timelines of having his idealism broken, Shinji finally wins in the end, with Shiro erasing the Rider War from existence. With Ren also getting his wish, as Eri was only hurt by Darkwing, a Mirror Monster, which no longer exists. Yeah, it's a bittersweet ending, everyone's coming back, but not all things are good with the balance of fixing the world, which would mean every kind of humans will come back (like Asakura, or those who deserved to be eaten by Contract Monsters). Other than that, people's state are also unchanged, there's Kitaoka's probably still ill and will also die (him having Goro because Goro serves him to atone Kitaoka having incurable disease). Undoing character developments are also another part of its bittersweet. Ren and Shinji not knowing each other anymore also, with all the awkwardness. But I still think with Riders/Monsters not being a thing, all criminals are just ordinary humans who can be easily stopped, compared to all shenanigans Riders can pull. There are also Riders who does their most severe evil things only because the Rider War itself, like Toujou. The ending also somehow has Megumi already working at ORE Journal.... I mean they were talking about golden crayfish and Sakaura Company... Last edited by DreadBringer; 05-01-2020 at 08:27 AM.. |
05-01-2020, 09:50 AM | #672 |
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Wow, I really missed a lot over the last day. Anyway, I’ve been preparing for both of the recent points you’ve reached and now for my “probably not that interesting” section.
Ryuga is probably the quintessential Dark Rider, probably because of how he manages to feel like a real person with little screen time, but also because of how cool he manages to be. I think there’s a later show which calls him “the ultimate Dark Rider”. But then again, his competition the show gives him is these guys. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130308145906 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130308150138 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20191101143814 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20190922161623 And anyway, in a few days you’ll be moving on to the next show. I’d share an original trailer for it, but I lost the link sometime ago. Instead, I’ll simply share this figurine that recreates the final scene of said trailer. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20200328010734 |
05-01-2020, 09:57 AM | #673 |
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I don't think Die is going to recognise any of those guys! Anyhow, I don't feel good about immediately jumping on someone's opinion but... Ryuga? Feels like a real person? The guy who popped out of a mirror dimension, looks like our protagonist for no reason, and whose only goal is to merge with said protagonist and then kill people?
I'll give you quintessential dark rider if only because he's our first palette swap of a hero. I mean, I'd count G4 but he definitely wasn't as iconic as Ryuga. |
05-01-2020, 11:24 AM | #674 |
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I'll weigh in on the various Ryuki endings a bit here.
So, Ryuki is one of the best Rider shows with not one, but FOUR "meh" endings. For all the great character work, the actual plot like many of have already stated can be a bit sloppy. Maybe it's just my head-canon, but because the Rider Battle has occurred multiple times (With Ouja winning at least a few times if that SIC story is canon), I can see the Series, Movie, and both endings to the 13 Riders Special technically all being canon. Though the show I guess does the best job of wrapping things up, but I find all the endings pretty unsatisfying. Having said that, Ryuki is still one of my favorite Rider series, and what occurred in 49 episodes wasn't ruined for me by what happened in the last 3rd of the 50th. Also just want to say thank you to Die and everyone for all the great thoughts expressed/shared on this thread. It's been a real joy to read all of your opinions on Ryuki. Here's hoping there are some Faiz fans who show up in the next one. |
05-01-2020, 12:15 PM | #675 |
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Some sources outside said that Goro lost to Ouja because he's not that experienced as Rider unlike Kitaoka, but he's a good fighter right? And Rider only gives you super powers alongside your fighting (also Zolda was shown better at direct hand-to-hand in this fight).
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There's also a debate if Ren died or not when he's at hospital. Though probably he is, he thinks about his friends before going to the hospital, accepting that even if he dies, he would reunite with his friends. He only wants Eri to be alive, not necessarily be together with her.
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In short, I don't think Shiro's really redeemed, he still only cares about his sister like usual, but he shows his care in different way, from R̶e̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ doing what he thinks (using how scary death is what they're going through as an excuse) is best for her, to doing what truly is best for her. It's just that Yui's someone who overall wants the best for the world. If Shiro's gonna fulfill what she wants, he's gotta do something that good, regardless of his morality (to others). It's that Yui's wants that came to play, Shiro, with his vast powers, is just the means to achieve that.
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05-01-2020, 12:27 PM | #676 |
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I don't think Die is going to recognise any of those guys! Anyhow, I don't feel good about immediately jumping on someone's opinion but... Ryuga? Feels like a real person? The guy who popped out of a mirror dimension, looks like our protagonist for no reason, and whose only goal is to merge with said protagonist and then kill people?
I'll give you quintessential dark rider if only because he's our first palette swap of a hero. I mean, I'd count G4 but he definitely wasn't as iconic as Ryuga. Quote:
So, Ryuki is one of the best Rider shows with not one, but FOUR "meh" endings. For all the great character work, the actual plot like many of have already stated can be a bit sloppy. Maybe it's just my head-canon, but because the Rider Battle has occurred multiple times (With Ouja winning at least a few times if that SIC story is canon), I can see the Series, Movie, and both endings to the 13 Riders Special technically all being canon. Though the show I guess does the best job of wrapping things up, but I find all the endings pretty unsatisfying.
Having said that, Ryuki is still one of my favorite Rider series, and what occurred in 49 episodes wasn't ruined for me by what happened in the last 3rd of the 50th. But, and I'll get into this later too, I don't know how much it matters. I'm a big believer in weak endings tainting stories, and Ryuki's definitely going to have a big ol' Even If on how much I enjoyed, but I still think the character work was strong enough to make the plot deficiencies feel less irritating.
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05-01-2020, 02:54 PM | #677 |
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Femme’s a pretty interesting character. She’s a mix of a few different established characters (Kitaoka’s cunning, Ren’s dedication to saving a loved one, a decent chunk of the Knight costume and weaponry, Reiko's assertiveness), but she manages to feel wholly original and also like a missing piece from Ryuki.
I find Femme's Final Vent to be an another lackluster one though. It's just striking an airborne enemy with your Sword Vent. I also want to talk about her Guard Vent that seemingly gives much more than that... like feathers and teleportation powers...like Odin! Quote:
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Miho has a death by irony too. She tried to con Shinji, was saved by Ryuga and mistook him for Shinji thus falling in love with him, the she was saved by actual Shinji from Ryuga and fell in love with him for real... And then died from her wounds shortly after. Quote:
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Yeah, the ending is stronger for sure, with her successfully killing herself, making sure no one can stop her. Though I think I don't really want to make her culpable? Unless you also think Shinji's being culpable here as well for breaking his promise at childhood, unwittingly started the Rider War and blaming himself for that. This is subjective but I think I want Yui to be actually completely innocent from everything bad that happened, other than self-blaming, just like, Shinji in this movie (if you think he's not culpable). I also want to know, yeah I talked about the wish vs reviving the dead before in the main series, and this is probably a change from a different writer. In this movie Femme wants to revive her big sister, so shouldn't Shiro be able to revive Yui after she committed suicide here as well (or no need to impose time limit)? Odin also doesn't appear here. Quote:
But, while they could drag the floor up, they also lowered the ceiling. Everything that happens in the story is fairly predictable, and plays like a less-imaginative version of Ryuki. Characters are slowly whittled down, an Evil Version of Shinji is one of the final bosses (mirrors!), and there’s a focus on just Ren versus Shinji at the end. It’s sort-of what you’d expect of a show about mirrors and monsters (the black version of Dragreder is called Dragblacker, though, which is so exquisitely dumb that I need to pay it homage), which means it doesn’t have the nuance or idiostyncratic touches of the TV finale. Kitaoka just leaves to go to lunch with Reiko, despite his illness. Asakura’s final battle is with Miho, and he’s mostly a victim of the new Big Bad, Ryuga. The mirror version of Shinji, it’s a cool visual that 100% doesn’t thematically fit this show. Like, what is Ryuga supposed to represent about Shinji’s story? He’s just evil, and wants to win the Rider Battle. Why? What does that have to do with the themes of sacrifice, of self-examination? The stuff that gets changed about the ending to Ryuki, it’s all plot, no heart. It’s constructive without being illuminating.
Ryuga got an ironic death as well, jis ultimate goal was to absorb Shinji and become one. He's lost forever when Shinji absorbs him. I want to know how does Ryuki manage to defeat Ryuga in the Final Vent clash though, Ryuki's AP is 6000, while Ryuga's is 7000. Ryuga, being an abnormal Rider, has the highest stats compared to other base Riders (but not Survives). Ouja gets the biggest disadvantage over Genocider, that when it's killed while it's merged, Ouja instantly lost all his monster and reverts to pathetically weak Blank Form. I guess for this one, Kitaoka just retires sooner than he did on the TV series, with him still being able to move around more freely, but he did the same thing like TV series right, only one of them (date Reiko). I wonder if Kitaoka knows that Asakura already died here, and probably he does to retire sooner. And speaking of the ending... it's a potential downer ending (oh well, reset anyway)? With the barrier between Mirror World and real world destroyed, where Shinji and Ren can henshin without mirrors, and charge to possible deaths with the swarm of Hydragoons. Build? It has Ryuga itself... Ryuga Banjou! |
05-01-2020, 04:10 PM | #678 |
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Ryuki's a fascinating show. It succeeds because of the impeccable job done with casting, and the stellar character-focused writing. Any Kamen Rider would be lucky to have one or two characters like the Riders of this show, and Ryuki has a half-dozen. (Also Scissors.) It's a show that interrogated the very idea of being a Rider in a way that took nothing for granted. It's smart about motivation in ways that are almost showy, boastful. It's so smart about characters. It fails because good lord is it dumb about plot. It starts with a clean, catchy premise: Rider versus Rider, to the death. Using that framework to explore concepts like sacrifice, survival, desire, cooperation, and heroism, it can lead to some outstanding stories. But this show constantly got in its own way, focusing on subplots that were distractions, piling on arbitrary and convoluted obstacles, and generally giving the impression that it wasn't clear who this show was supposed to be about. It's a show that makes it equally easy to focus on what it's doing right as what it's doing wrong. We've talked a lot already about the characters as the main strength of Ryuki in this thread. I wouldn't disagree with that, but the other aspect I thought was incredibly engaging was its thematic work. I'll always respect a show that wanted to interrogate the concept of heroism, that refused to take it as a given. Kamen Riders aren't innately heroic, this show argued, but they choose heroism. Why? What does that mean to them? What's the nature of their heroism? Ryuki's a show that valued argument, disagreement. Every character got to have a view on heroism, got to define the terms of being a hero. It allowed for different viewers to root for different characters. Some viewers could find heroism in Ren's desire to fight and kill to save Eri, while others could root for Shinji, a character who resolutely refused to end a life to save a life. Even Kitaoka got to represent a form of burgeoning heroism, the value in finding peace and deciding to step away from selfishness and vanity. There are a ton of takes on heroism in Ryuki, and they all feel equally valid. The goal wasn't to define heroism, it was to get people to define their own heroism. That said, you can feel the show building out its own thesis on heroism as the final episodes rolled. It's in Shinji's dying appeal to Ren, that the Rider Battles cause too much suffering. A lot of Kamen Rider is about harnessing evil to fight for good. It's inherent in the premise of Ryuki, as Shinji and Ren (and everyone else) make a life-or-death contract with a monster to achieve their goals. But while the show agrees that evil can be used to fight for good, it draws the line at finding heroism in causing suffering. That any plan that allows or ignores suffering, at any level, isn't heroic. That there's no such thing as a justifiable sacrifice of others. That damning others is a fundamentally evil act. Heroism isn't about trading lives, or about saving someone at the cost of their happiness. It's about fighting to reduce suffering, to increase happiness, as much as possible. If there's a definition of heroism to be found in Ryuki, I think that's it. That's the character and thematic stuff, which for me was the whole reason to watch Ryuki. I loved them. The plot and premise, though? Those parts were less of a success. For its DNA, there are a bunch of different things it seems to be referencing. Trading card games, for sure. Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were already huge hits in Japan by the time Ryuki aired, so the idea of two people fighting through monsters, it's an easy way in to the show. Battle Royale was also a huge hit by this point, although (hopefully!) to an older audience than watched Kamen Rider. But you can see how the conflicts in that book/movie could sneak into this kids' show, a broad mix of characters with singular motivations and all the reasons in the world to distrust one another. There's also Highlander, with the prize at the end. The thing that struck me most about Ryuki, when it worked, was that it seemed to be drawing not from any of those references, or from Kamen Rider as a franchise, but from the workplace drama. It feels as much in a line with Grey's Anatomy or Mad Men as it does Agito or Kuuga. Ryuki's a show that has a lead actor, but not really a primary Rider. Shinji's not the originator of the story. At the end, it's not even a story really about him. He's not the most powerful. He's not really in charge of the other Riders, either through leadership or friendship. It's what you'd call a flat management structure. Everyone's ostensibly working towards a singular goal (winning the Rider Battles), and teamwork is more about moments when individual pursuits overlap. They aren't really friends of enemies, they're co-workers. Shiro isn't some all-powerful mastermind, he's a shitty, mercurial boss. This was a show that seemed obsessed with workplaces as a drama generator. With the Rider Battles, there are three different workplaces, covering nearly all types of TV bosses. Atori has the motherly figure, ready to dispense wisdom and a wisecrack. Ore has the fatherly figure, pushing hard but only because he knows you can handle it. And the Rider Battles have the dick boss, someone who'd fire you in a heartbeat if he felt like it. Still, three workplaces? It's too much. It's a glut of characters and concepts. The strength of Ryuki is how great its characters are. The weakness is that there are too damn many of them. The biggest problem I had with the construction of this show is how rarely it seemed like everything in it was valuable. The Rider Battles alone could carry a show, but we still had Reiko's investigation, Ore Journal as a business, Atori as a cafe, Yui's story, Shiro's appearances, and however many Riders' personal lives. It's way too much to make relevant at one time, and too little of it overlapped regularly. Reiko's story was great, but it was usually just Reiko's story. Same with Yui's story, or whatever was going on at Atori. It rarely all felt tied together, and that led to this feeling of three different shows occupying the same episode sometimes. And, man, the Mirror World story is total nonsense. It's hard to care about any action's consequences when Shiro could introduce a new stipulation, or change a rule, whenever he felt like it. It's hard to invest in a contest when the rules are arbitrary. We're constantly told that there need to be thirteen Riders, but we never see all thirteen on the show. We're told that there needs to be one Rider left at the end to fight Odin, but Asakura dies after Knight is declared the final fighter. There's no time limit, then suddenly there's a time limit. Shiro's actions could come off as whimsical or mysterious, but it mostly felt to me like the function of plot. He wasn't a character, he was how the producers interfered in the characters lives. The problem spilled over, irrevocably, into the Yui and Shiro plots. A ton of the conclusion is about Shiro and Yui's relationship, and that story largely didn't work for me. Yui was rarely the most important character in any Yui plot, and the actor was given one or two notes to play for the entire series. And she's so funny in a few scenes when she's given the chance! But the character is sad all the time, and that's about it. Well, occasionally she's also confused. Those are the two emotions she gets to play for an entire series. It makes for an inert resolution to this series, where I'm asked to care about the two most underwritten and unsympathetic characters on the show. If this was where it was all leading, why didn't they work harder to make you care about them? Why pin your resolution on them, and not the raft of memorable characters in your cast? But that cast! So great. Shinji is a new take on a Rider, tempering the sweetness of Shouichi with righteous anger. Ren is a brooding asshole who never stops being a brooding asshole, refusing to give up on his dim view of humanity even as he fights for the people he loves. Asakura is all rage, a fighter who sees the Rider Battles as their own reward. (My favorite Ryuki trope is the way Ouja rotates his neck after he Henshins. He relaxes after he Henshins. Perfect.) Toujou is heroism as an intellectual concept instead of an emotional one, a rigid worldview that feels antiquated. Professor is someone who sees sacrifice as regrettable, but never tries to see it as avoidable. Reiko is the ideal of journalism, a quest for answers that can't be stopped. Megumi is a hilarious ditz. Shimada is a judgmental genius. Kitaoka is perfect. It's nuts. This cast was amazing, and a story about what heroism even means, it's brilliant. But the construction was sloppy, and it rarely felt like everything in an episode was pulling in the same direction. There's some excellent raw material here, but the sculpting needed a lot more attention.
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05-01-2020, 04:40 PM | #679 |
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And that's a wrap on Masked Rider Ryuki! I've watched the show, and I've opened my Figuarts Ryuki to celebrate. This was a fun show to watch, and a lifesaver to talk about. I've said before that this stuff is self-care for me, a way to get my head right after watching Kamen Rider and having thoughts. This time, with everything going on, it was also a sense of normalcy, a little bit of a refuge. So, as always, thank you for indulging me, and thanks so much for your thoughts and feedback. You are my Survive Card. I'm going to need a couple few days to decompress before the next show, but I'm happy to keep talking about Ryuki for as long as you all want. This one maybe has more in it, possibly? I don't know. You tell me. Otherwise, I'll be back in about a week with KAMEN RIDER DIE WATCHES KAMEN RIDER WIZARD! Oh, shit, sorry! I always get those two mixed up. I'll actually be back in about a week with KAMEN RIDER DIE WATCHES MASKED RIDER FAIZ. I hope you'll check it out!
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05-01-2020, 04:56 PM | #680 |
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OK... you have written your overview, though dunno if you're open to knowing more of it (especially as you're going to ditch it), as I haven't posted my review yet.
Also nothing to say about my latest reply? |
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