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06-26-2020, 02:07 PM | #891 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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W and Gaim are the shows, for me, they'd stayed good all the way through. They utilized Escalation, Ticking Clock, and Mysteries Revealed really well, and had satisfying endings. (I know Gaim has its issues, but I think they told a great story overall)
Having said that, some of my favorite Rider shows have pretty weak endings, I just try not to forget the journey even if the destination is kind of lame. |
06-26-2020, 02:15 PM | #892 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
W and Gaim are the shows, for me, they'd stayed good all the way through. They utilized Escalation, Ticking Clock, and Mysteries Revealed really well, and had satisfying endings. (I know Gaim has its issues, but I think they told a great story overall)
Having said that, some of my favorite Rider shows have pretty weak endings, I just try not to forget the journey even if the destination is kind of lame. This is probably something more worth talking about when the whole series is done, just in case it course-corrects, but telling a story is like flying a plane. Take-off can be a quick jump into the sky, or a slow and steady rise. The middle, it can be calm and level or full of nail-biting loops. The end, you have to land the plane. The smoothest flight that ends in a fireball would probably not be considered a success, you know? To be fair, there are levels of botching the landing that are more forgivable (or forgettable) than others. It's definitely up to the individual passenger (could this analogy be more tortured) to decide what's a minor bump and what's something that needs litigation.
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06-26-2020, 02:18 PM | #893 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Die, don't become a pilot.
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06-26-2020, 02:57 PM | #894 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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All I can say right now is that I personally found Yuuji's turn to the dark side entirely believable, and thought the concept was the most logical possible direction for the story to take his character at this point in the series. It felt built up well enough, and it posed a lot of interesting questions that, by and large, I do think the show ends up answering in a satisfactory manner.
The execution, I can't decide if I agree or not there. The Murakami Jr. shtick is jarring for sure, but part of me wants to say that's probably just exactly what Yuuji would act like if he lost his smile. Still well-mannered and polite, but less empathetic and understanding. There are moments where his old self seems to poke through, but, at least broadly, I concur that the show would've been better served by trading in the suspense of his disappearance after Yuka's death for directly showing us more detail on how exactly he came to the conclusions he's arrived at. I hope you feel a little better by the end, Die! But don't feel too bad about feeling bad, either. The previous 40+ episodes of regular glowing praise were far more than any Faiz fan could hope for. I think you've earned the right to some negativity. Quote:
I guess for me it's because he felt part satire of that and part deconstruction. As if Inoue looked at the likes of Shinji and Godai from the past couple years and went "hey, you know those characters who believed in justice and had unyielding optimism? Well here's how they'd actually be like; they're alone in their beliefs in the world, they're idiots who can't use a Rider Belt, and their development is about that optimism being crushed and learning to accept that the realities of the world don't match up to their ideals"
I don't buy the argument that Inoue would have wanted to make fun of those kinds of characters in a malicious way. The guy wrote Yuusuke and Shinji, and while it's true that in the latter's case he loved to emphasize his more goofball traits, what's even more relevant is that Inoue wrote Shouichi, who was basically Keitarou in reverse. A protagonist whose unshakable positive outlook is constantly rewarded, to the point jokes are made at the expense of characters like Hikawa for not comprehending why he's so "lucky". Heck, I might even argue Shouichi in Inoue's hands was more of an unyielding optimist than Yuusuke was in Arakawa's. He had a real genuine purity to him that Agito took very seriously, and despite the jokes at his expense, I think Keitarou does inherit a bit of that. Also I'm really looking forward to Die's thread for Kiva.
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06-26-2020, 03:10 PM | #895 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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You say that as if I'll be present!
But yeah, I do get that interpretation of Keitarou, and I do sort of see it but... it doesn't work for me in the slightest. Everything about it feels weak and half-hearted and it's not a trait of this guy's writing that'll be vanishing any time soon.
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06-26-2020, 03:16 PM | #896 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
All I can say right now is that I personally found Yuuji's turn to the dark side entirely believable, and thought the concept was the most logical possible direction for the story to take his character at this point in the series. It felt built up well enough, and it posed a lot of interesting questions that, by and large, I do think the show ends up answering in a satisfactory manner.
The execution, I can't decide if I agree or not there. The Murakami Jr. shtick is jarring for sure, but part of me wants to say that's probably just exactly what Yuuji would act like if he lost his smile. Still well-mannered and polite, but less empathetic and understanding. There are moments where his old self seems to poke through, but, at least broadly, I concur that the show would've been better served by trading in the suspense of his disappearance after Yuka's death for directly showing us more detail on how exactly he came to the conclusions he's arrived at. But what's on the show lacks the specificity that would carry the Yuuji half of the story. The Takumi stuff is mostly there, but he's not playing against Yuuji anymore. It's dry and emotionless when (to me) it needs to be raw and painful. Like, I'm not mad at what the show is saying, I'm mad at how it's phrasing it. I hope so, too! Thanks! I think it was such an abrupt change in direction that I... I didn't handle it super well. Kind-of threw a little tantrum? I'll try to be a little less conclusive on things, try to be a little bit more tentative. There's still story left to be told, and maybe it'll all make me feel differently in a couple more chapters. Show ain't over yet!
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06-26-2020, 03:29 PM | #897 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,098
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Quote:
I gotta stick up for Keitarou here, because this was the image of him I had for the longest time, too, but, and Die has called tons of attention to this throughout, the show itself isn't making fun of him anywhere near the same way the characters in it do. I realized rewatching the series that his optimism, kindheartedness, and upstanding moral behavior are genuinely portrayed as a positive force for most of the people around him, and honestly, I think Takumi looks up to him more than he does to Yuuji, and that's saying a lot.
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06-26-2020, 03:49 PM | #898 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Yeah, I also think that the most inspirational guy to Takumi is Keitarou. Takumi might be more willing to acknowledge his admiration of Kiba more than Keitarou since Kiba has more macho qualities but Takumi secretly looks up to Keitarou the most as a guy who lives for others' happiness. He doesn't have much direction like Kiba but that honesty and kindness is the foundation of what makes a true hero. Kiba has heroic ideals but lacks the resolution to follow them. He inspires a lot of people, including Takumi, to live better lives but he couldn't live that way. Keitarou never loses sight of what's important though. The only reason he's not the hero is due to his lack of compatibility so instead he's a mentor to Takumi, giving him the motivation to be Faiz and protect dreams. He even had two arcs dedicated to overcoming his fear and prejudice of Orphenochs. It's sad that Kiba lost his way but Takumi knows that Keitarou won't change and doesn't need to. He's the heart of Team Faiz, in a way that surpasses Kiba as the heart of Team Orphenoch. Keitarou is an example of what he believes in by showing others how to be better, instead of just preaching.
Yuuji is like your dad's new girlfriend who you see on the weekends. She's nice and fun and she's trying really hard to connect with you, but she's got her own life and you don't see her that often. She gets built up a little in your mind as meaning more than she really does because your time together is briefer, more fun. Keitaro is the mom that you spend the rest of the week with. You maybe take her for granted, but she is there for you every minute of every day. She has to be stern sometimes, and you're both around each other when you're not at your best, but her dedication is unwavering. Yuuji can fix Takumi when parts fall off, but Keitaro's the one who built Takumi.
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06-26-2020, 04:09 PM | #899 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,098
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Quote:
So, after reading these impassioned defenses of Keitaro (yay!) while still thinking of Takkiba of where it's at, here's how I think about where Keitaro and Yuuji figure into Takumi's emotional support system.
Yuuji is like your dad's new girlfriend who you see on the weekends. She's nice and fun and she's trying really hard to connect with you, but she's got her own life and you don't see her that often. She gets built up a little in your mind as meaning more than she really does because your time together is briefer, more fun. Keitaro is the mom that you spend the rest of the week with. You maybe take her for granted, but she is there for you every minute of every day. She has to be stern sometimes, and you're both around each other when you're not at your best, but her dedication is unwavering. Yuuji can fix Takumi when parts fall off, but Keitaro's the one who built Takumi. Quote:
I think my favorite part of Kaixa's heroic arrival at the end of the episode is that he never even gets off of his bike. He's like a grumpy parent, driving on his lunch break to his kid's school because the kid left his science project in the car. No, Kyle, I am not coming in, you need to come out to the curb and get your posterboard on the lifecycle of an earthworm. You need to take more responsibility for your things!
It's a great analogy though. Keitarou put the Kamen Rider in Kamen Rider Faiz. The hero behind the hero.
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06-26-2020, 04:33 PM | #900 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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look i'm just saying i'd watch that show
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