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04-07-2022, 11:44 PM | #551 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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It was incredibly funny to me that, after Hat Woz has been all You Need These New Roleplay Items To Defeat Zi-O, and after Sougo has easily shut down Geiz in the past (the OOO episode!)... here, Geiz just beats Zi-O with an Episode 2 power-up item? Why is Hat Woz pushing Geiz so hard to get specific trinket's when apparently any old Ridewatch can take Sougo apart?
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04-08-2022, 03:06 AM | #552 |
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So, the answer to my question from last time was… true.
Anyway, while I don’t remember much about the episode in particular (other than Geiz getting Quiz to explode his dad to avoid the need for a Ridewatch… only for Ora to just turn Another Quiz back on), but I did take note of the fact that Quiz’s belt has a female voice, to which I was like “Have they done that before?” (I then looked it up, and it turned out they’d half done it with Poppy’s Gashat. The two-female voiced items since then have also been half-efforts). Next time: The one that came to America and got a (mostly. The coding is reused from Climax Fighters) brand new video game. Last edited by Androzani84; 04-17-2024 at 05:42 PM.. |
04-08-2022, 07:29 AM | #553 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Quiz is such a silly concept for a Rider, I love it. The idea that, in 20 years time, the series gimmick will have moved beyond "Samurai" and "Dinosaurs" to "Oh yeah it's all about quiz questions and also the collectible items are punctuation marks" gives me an unreasonabe amount of joy.
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04-08-2022, 08:09 AM | #554 |
Master Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 367
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Quote:
I honestly wouldn't care about it (it's just Time Nonsense; whatever) if the show didn't spend several scenes laying it out as THE STAKES OF THE EPISODE. Like, this is what Geiz and Sougo have been fighting about! This is what Geiz'z strategy was specifically trying to circumvent! And then it just didn't matter for some reason?!
Much like Geiz and Sougo's entire conflict, what Hat Woz claims to be the inevitable outcome may just turn out to be a pointless conflict. |
04-08-2022, 08:21 AM | #555 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
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Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 20 - ?FINAL ANSWER 2040?
Which? what? We?re told a number of times in this episode that robbing Quiz of his powers would also rob him of his memories, including the catharsis he came to 2018 to obtain. But then none of that happens? Woz creates the Quiz Miridewatch, and Mondo?s like I?m Just Going Back To The Future Now To Tell My Mom The Good News. Isn?t? isn?t that exactly what we were told couldn?t happen? And hasn?t ever happened before? I genuinely don?t understand how this episode could end in the way it did. Even setting aside the continuity of it all, it gives this story zero stakes at the end. What in the hell were they all fighting over for the last 20-odd minutes? So yeah, I agree that the stakes here are kind of irrelevant, since a lot of it is probably being made bigger than it is in Geiz's mind. There's the paradox that Geiz is supposed to be this savior of Kamen Riders, but apparently he has to usurp the power of future Kamen Riders to accomplish that and it's not so different from how Oma Zi-O rose to sovereignty. I think Geiz's problem with that is on principle that taking Quiz's power for the sake of obtaining more power is just a morally ambiguous thing to do, even if the effects of that are merely temporary. And of course, he doesn't want to destroy Sougo if he doesn't have to. White Woz is the one who wishes for Sougo's death the most. Goddammit, 2 misses in a row. I suck at this!
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04-08-2022, 10:02 AM | #556 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Anyway, while I don?t remember much about the episode in particular (other than Geiz getting Quiz to explode his dad to avoid the need for a Ridewatch? only for Zora to just turn Another Quiz back on), but I did take note of the fact that Quiz?s belt has a female voice, to which I was like ?Have they done that before?? (I then looked it up, and it turned out they?d half done it with Poppy?s Gashat. The two-female voiced items since then have also been half-efforts).
Quote:
Quiz is such a silly concept for a Rider, I love it. The idea that, in 20 years time, the series gimmick will have moved beyond "Samurai" and "Dinosaurs" to "Oh yeah it's all about quiz questions and also the collectible items are punctuation marks" gives me an unreasonabe amount of joy.
Quote:
Watching it the first time, yeah, I agree. Hearing it all again, it's actually clever writing. I wish I could say more, but you should have it figured out in another 10 episodes or so. Let just say the established rules of how this worked meant that the characters had every reason to act the way they did and no idea it would work any differently. That fact that it did, it's just plot convenience, it's setting something else up.
Much like Geiz and Sougo's entire conflict, what Hat Woz claims to be the inevitable outcome may just turn out to be a pointless conflict. Quote:
So yeah, I agree that the stakes here are kind of irrelevant, since a lot of it is probably being made bigger than it is in Geiz's mind. There's the paradox that Geiz is supposed to be this savior of Kamen Riders, but apparently he has to usurp the power of future Kamen Riders to accomplish that and it's not so different from how Oma Zi-O rose to sovereignty. I think Geiz's problem with that is on principle that taking Quiz's power for the sake of obtaining more power is just a morally ambiguous thing to do, even if the effects of that are merely temporary. And of course, he doesn't want to destroy Sougo if he doesn't have to. White Woz is the one who wishes for Sougo's death the most.
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04-08-2022, 03:13 PM | #557 |
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Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where Geiz is the moral arbiter and absolute ruler (or whatever) of the whole of civilization. That kid's got a ton of weird psychological and emotional issues! If someone as sweet as Sougo could eventually become a genocidal despot, I can't imagine how bad things could get with a starting point of Geiz.
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 20 - ?FINAL ANSWER 2040?
There?s stuff in it I liked. The idea of abandoning the conflicting ideologies of Geiz Vs Sougo for something that synthesizes the two into a form of, like, Aggressive Caring is a pretty great repudiation of the ways Wozez are trying to dictate the terms of success. I liked that Mondo never has a tearful I Forgive You Dad moment, since his dad (doing some terrific Hideaki Anno cosplay) never once earns it. That guy was screwed up before Mondo came along, and their lack of a relationship doesn?t need to be a drag on Mondo?s happiness. It?s a refreshingly mature attempt at catharsis, where you can?t change the past, but you can make sure your future isn?t anchored to it. Quote:
But everything with Sougo and Geiz and Woz and Hat Woz still feels too nebulous to care about: a philosophical struggle that no one can directly articulate, and a physical struggle that?s stamped Not This Episode. (It doesn?t help that Tsukuyomi is given basically nothing to do in this story, playing Time Mom to two teenagers who can?t seem to get along. She acts as a sounding board in two identical scenes! And that?s it!) The tone of everything is rich and foreboding, but the details never quite cohere into an addressable menace.
Sougo asking Tsukuyomi which gets him the answer of blindly rushing at Mondo as someone too straightforward also lets him figure that out when Geiz punched him that it's their plan to solve the Mondos' problem, instead of the miscommunication of Sougo being confused why he attacked him, he's usually too straightforward to make that simple mistake. Then Sougo furthers buy them time by stalling White Woz while beating Another Quiz to draw out answers for Mondo's questions. Quote:
It?s hard to maintain a feeling of inevitability over the long term, and we?re four episodes into Hat Woz?z machinations with very little to show for it, narratively. It seems bad, but everything else about this story is a pretty standard Team Zi-O adventure. No one on Team Zi-O?s side is doing much to solve or eliminate the threat of Hat Woz, or even confirm that he is a threat. He?s more forceful in this story, as far as openly manipulating Geiz to get what he wants, but no one?s like He Has To Be Stopped. Even his villainous move at the end of creating the Quiz Miridewatch, thereby going against Geiz and Sougo's wishes, doesn?t really cause any problems?
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04-08-2022, 04:06 PM | #558 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,410
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Quote:
Quiz is such a silly concept for a Rider, I love it. The idea that, in 20 years time, the series gimmick will have moved beyond "Samurai" and "Dinosaurs" to "Oh yeah it's all about quiz questions and also the collectible items are punctuation marks" gives me an unreasonabe amount of joy.
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04-08-2022, 04:07 PM | #559 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I guess I'd agree too that the resolution doesn't put the father on the pedestal, just because he's the parent. It was about Tamotsu making up a bit, not by absolving him from his mistakes that he had done in the past, but about slightly improving the strained relationship by having him reminded about why he left his family for his research. It's a second chance for him (not Mondo) as in Geiz Revive's timeline he died without achieving anything, but now Mondo's watch moving had him changing his family fate.
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04-08-2022, 05:33 PM | #560 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP20)
I was pretty hard on this two-parter at the time, by my standards at least, and for pretty similar reasons to why Die has for not connecting with it that much. The story never ~quite~ makes it to the point where it feels like it's really saying some new meaningful thing about the overall show in a way that feels particularly concrete. Looking back though, I mean, I kinda don't care? I've actually rewatched this arc pretty recently on a complete whim, and divorced from the expectation of seeing it advance Zi-O as a whole, I found myself able to focus much more on what a solid pair of episodes it is on its own merits. It's not reframing and redefining our understanding of any of the principle characters, sure, but it does a great job letting the viewer just sorta soak in the current status quo now that White Woz is here. My outlook on them also improved yet more a bit back, when Die was talking about the previous two-parter, which further put things into perspective. Using the Quiz episodes to focus in on how Geiz feels about everything that's happening lately seems even more justified to me when you consider that Shinobi was ultimately a character used to comment on Sougo more than anything. So yeah, as I've said, a lot to love about these episodes. More than their place in the grander narrative of the series, though, I really do appreciate them on that Wizard wavelength of being a very strong and emotional self-contained story about nicely developed guest characters whose own arcs also bring something interesting out of the regular cast. Satoshi Morota's direction especially helps to sell the intimate and sentimental tone of the episodes, and there's so much visually in here that gives everything a huge sense of weight. When I say these episodes let you soak them in, I mean it -- the atmosphere throughout is fantastic. I've always especially loved Mondo's reaction when his father gives his answer to the most important question of all at the end, for example, and I literally just noticed watching the scene back the way the focus of the camera shifts between the two of them at like, the exact moment for it to have the maximum emotional impact. That acoustic version of Over Quartzer doesn't hurt either:
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