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09-03-2020, 04:04 PM | #891 |
Dr. Salt NEO
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 727
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The thing that makes characters like Tennouji and U.N.D.A.D. so much more frustrating to me is how unnecessary they are, since this series didn't hurt for interesting antagonists! Tiger Queen, while eventually filling more of a mentor role, has a fascinating perspective on the Undead and Battle Fight. Scissors Undead isn't the deepest character, but he's got ten times the flair that Tennouji had. And King! A hateable villain that gives Kenzaki one of his biggest victories!
I guess what I'm saying is that the Undead were generally really fun, while the human (or "human") villains in the second half were just a great big snooze. (Trenchcoat Mastermind sort-of splits the difference. I never loved his obsession with numbers going up, but I think he adds a lot to Tachibana's story. A little dull, for sure, but a worthy antagonist.)
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09-03-2020, 04:05 PM | #892 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I like to think of him as always being Kenzaki, you know? Pushing his bike up a hill because it broke for no apparent reason. Needing to crash on strangers' couches because he forgot he needs money to pay rent. Amane getting a birthday card from him on different day every year, with a note about how he owes her another gift. The world having that guy running around for eternity... man, I'm tearing up again!
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09-03-2020, 04:11 PM | #893 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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That's a great point actually, it's the human villains that are the major problem. I guess since Tennouji and Hirose get so much screen time between them, it's just easier to remember how awful they are compared to the generally more interesting Undead villains. Which makes me wonder what it could have been like if the Undead were the only villains, and we just scrap Tennouji and Hirose entirely. Expand the roles and characterization of the Undead instead, giving the last few of them more time and relevance. Sure they still wouldn't be likely to show up on anyone's list of favorite Rider villains ever, but it probably would have been better than Tennouji and Hirose!
The downside with doing that, though, is you're basically just doing Kuuga again, and only four years after Kuuga aired. Probably would've garnered this show a completely different set of complaints.
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09-03-2020, 04:24 PM | #894 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,410
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I don’t really have a huge issue with the show’s villains because I don’t really think of any of them past Isaka as being major villains, even Tennouji. Blade’s real villain isn’t a character, it’s the situation that they’re all out in. The Battle Fight is what drives all of the show’s main physical conflicts and the show’s final struggle is about how to effectively cheat its system. Isaka worked well as an early, pre-power-up threat, but after him most high level Undead were lucky to last more than three episodes. I didn’t mind that because it still tied into the idea that the situation is the real problem.
I mean, yeah, Tennouji kinda sucks and feels more than a little pointless, but I guess I didn’t expect more from him? He was really just more of an extended distraction. |
09-03-2020, 04:41 PM | #895 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I don’t really have a huge issue with the show’s villains because I don’t really think of any of them past Isaka as being major villains, even Tennouji. Blade’s real villain isn’t a character, it’s the situation that they’re all out in. The Battle Fight is what drives all of the show’s main physical conflicts and the show’s final struggle is about how to effectively cheat its system. Isaka worked well as an early, pre-power-up threat, but after him most high level Undead were lucky to last more than three episodes. I didn’t mind that because it still tied into the idea that the situation is the real problem.
I mean, yeah, Tennouji kinda sucks and feels more than a little pointless, but I guess I didn’t expect more from him? He was really just more of an extended distraction.
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09-03-2020, 06:35 PM | #896 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Oh man did I show up late to this one. Alright, um... directly quoting everyone is basically out of the question if I don't want to spend several hours writing this one post... just need a good place to start then... Oh! I got it!
Perfect is definitely the only word for this finale. I'm trying to make this quick, so it's good I don't have anything I could really add. I always liked the dopey freeze frame of Kenzaki's face when they play the title card? The truncated opening is generally something I look forward to in Rider finales, and Blade having it pop up right after Kenzaki asks Kotarou to trust his plan to deal with Hajime, after running himself ragged using King Form... yeah, that's pretty much everything that needs to be established! The whole episode is an out-of-the-park spectacular finish to the show that leaves such a massive impression on people for good reason. As for the discussion of themes, "failure" is a good one. There was a point after episode 28 (I went and checked) where you said you were having some trouble getting a handle on what the themes of Blade are, and while I didn't say anything at the time, because I like to avoid doing anything that might color your opinions, that remark hit pretty close to home for me when it comes to this show. I've seen Blade twice, and neither time did it feel like a show with a particularly cogent thematic core the way most Heisei Rider shows do to me. There's material there, for sure, but it doesn't leap out at me the same way it would in a show like Faiz, for example. I've been putting more thought into it during this thread, and the "conclusion" I've arrived at was as such: Fighting fate, that was always the hallmark of Shou Aikawa's run as writer, and fairly specific to him. His very first episode is the very first time we hear Kenzaki say a variation on those words that would go on to become rather iconic thanks to the ending, and it always keeps popping back up in-between. For the first half of the show by Shouji Imai, I'd say the main theme, as best as I can sum it up in a single word, would be "doubt". Maybe "uncertainty"? This is reflected in the lyrics to both the opening and insert themes, and also by nearly every aspect of the plot, from how it's set up, to the struggles all three Riders face in that first arc. Everything you said about how you see the themes, I think it ended up intersecting pretty nicely with how I feel about them, even though the exact lens and labels we're using are a bit different. Blade can be kind of a different beast compared to other Rider shows in this department, so I'm amazed they line up at all. Also, I kind of weirdly agree with everything DreamSword said, even though I also don't at all? Well, except the bit about the Black Fang episodes. Die and I both watched that second part, posted about it, and we both agreed it was basically a total misfire. It's Bike Action without the Action. Aside from that though, yeah. Early Blade definitely has a more unique sense of atmosphere compared to the more standardized supehero antics later on, and that's one of the things that keeps me coming back to those early episodes so much. The complaints, I don't feel personally, but I wouldn't really argue most of those flaws aren't there. Some of the overarching villains are a bit of a sticking point for me, but the fun of the week-to-week Undead with human forms always overshadows that in my memories. The gamut of motivations and personalities those guys had is something I don't think many other Rider shows offer. Some of them are very atypical antagonists, to the point a guy like Shima can even just be a protagonist, no questions asked! It's totally wild and I love it. And, before I forget to mention it for the millionth time: have we never just taken a second in this thread to sit back and appreciate how gloriously absurd the name "Battle Fight" is yet? Because that's gotta be one of my favorite terms in the entire lexicon of Kamen Rider. Might as well have called it the Combat War.
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09-03-2020, 07:09 PM | #897 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,396
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Also, I kind of weirdly agree with everything DreamSword said, even though I also don't at all? Well, except the bit about the Black Fang episodes. Die and I both watched that second part, posted about it, and we both agreed it was basically a total misfire. It's Bike Action without the Action. Aside from that though, yeah. Early Blade definitely has a more unique sense of atmosphere compared to the more standardized supehero antics later on, and that's one of the things that keeps me coming back to those early episodes so much. The complaints, I don't feel personally, but I wouldn't really argue most of those flaws aren't there. Some of the overarching villains are a bit of a sticking point for me, but the fun of the week-to-week Undead with human forms always overshadows that in my memories. The gamut of motivations and personalities those guys had is something I don't think many other Rider shows offer. Some of them are very atypical antagonists, to the point a guy like Shima can even just be a protagonist, no questions asked! It's totally wild and I love it.
And it's okay that neither of you understand the inherent coolness of Black Fang, a motorcycle made almost totally out of spikes driven around by an Undead monster. I understand, we're not all fans of metal, afterall, lol. Quote:
And, before I forget to mention it for the millionth time: have we never just taken a second in this thread to sit back and appreciate how gloriously absurd the name "Battle Fight" is yet? Because that's gotta be one of my favorite terms in the entire lexicon of Kamen Rider. Might as well have called it the Combat War.
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09-03-2020, 07:35 PM | #898 |
Dr. Salt NEO
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 727
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Quote:
And, before I forget to mention it for the millionth time: have we never just taken a second in this thread to sit back and appreciate how gloriously absurd the name "Battle Fight" is yet? Because that's gotta be one of my favorite terms in the entire lexicon of Kamen Rider. Might as well have called it the Combat War.
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09-03-2020, 08:36 PM | #899 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
As for the discussion of themes, "failure" is a good one. There was a point after episode 28 (I went and checked) where you said you were having some trouble getting a handle on what the themes of Blade are, and while I didn't say anything at the time, because I like to avoid doing anything that might color your opinions, that remark hit pretty close to home for me when it comes to this show. I've seen Blade twice, and neither time did it feel like a show with a particularly cogent thematic core the way most Heisei Rider shows do to me. There's material there, for sure, but it doesn't leap out at me the same way it would in a show like Faiz, for example. I've been putting more thought into it during this thread, and the "conclusion" I've arrived at was as such:
Fighting fate, that was always the hallmark of Shou Aikawa's run as writer, and fairly specific to him. His very first episode is the very first time we hear Kenzaki say a variation on those words that would go on to become rather iconic thanks to the ending, and it always keeps popping back up in-between. For the first half of the show by Shouji Imai, I'd say the main theme, as best as I can sum it up in a single word, would be "doubt". Maybe "uncertainty"? This is reflected in the lyrics to both the opening and insert themes, and also by nearly every aspect of the plot, from how it's set up, to the struggles all three Riders face in that first arc. Everything you said about how you see the themes, I think it ended up intersecting pretty nicely with how I feel about them, even though the exact lens and labels we're using are a bit different. Blade can be kind of a different beast compared to other Rider shows in this department, so I'm amazed they line up at all. Quote:
And, before I forget to mention it for the millionth time: have we never just taken a second in this thread to sit back and appreciate how gloriously absurd the name "Battle Fight" is yet? Because that's gotta be one of my favorite terms in the entire lexicon of Kamen Rider. Might as well have called it the Combat War.
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When I watched Blade for the first time a few years ago, I actually thought the term "Battle Fight" was some weird translation quirk with the subs. I just assumed it was a case of the translators getting a bit too literal resulting in a silly but technically correct name, and it probably made more sense in Japanese. Then when I started this rewatch, now that I have a lot more familiarity with the sound of the Japanese language, I realized they were actually just straight up saying "Battle Fight" and that's seriously what it's called.
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09-04-2020, 12:21 AM | #900 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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I guess if you don't remember much, I will now note what episodes I'm discussing with, in this case, episode 42.
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Tiger Queen’s story is one I probably shouldn’t love. It’s her sacrificing herself for Mutsuki’s sake, and that can be some loaded storytelling. But it didn’t bother me at all. The main reason it worked was because it was about her regaining control over her choices.
As I've told you before (and I wasn't trying to spoil, with Mutsuki having yellow glow in ep. 30-ish, he was Yami Mutsuki), Mutsuki was possessed by Spider Undead all this time until now. And Shima's sacrifice began to take effect here, with help from Hikaru's. And probably you'd be disappointed with this one (unless you'd think Mutsuki's insecurities which leads him to be possessed makes him also responsible, but still, even if those are more interesting, never treat your or anyone's headcannon as real ones), but Mutsuki is forgiven because all of his transgressions were Spider Undead's act, and, well, "I need to be stronger" is part of the reason why Spider Undead can possess him, so yeah, the villain here is always Spider Undead (and possessed Mutsuki was anti-villain with him doing bad things but none are in control/what he wants). He's not someone who would resort into doing all the bad things he did from ep. 30-ish to 42, it's all Spider Undead's doing, and as it've been said in ep. 40-41, it was Mutsuki being possessed (and it probably shows that the cast also knew what's going on with Mutsuki). And the fight... wow, it's one species fight, Spider vs Tarantula (Shima's).
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