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11-12-2020, 03:42 AM | #631 |
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Honestly, I’ve been readin up on the lore and I think I’ve found why Ibuki’s so pissy. He normally goes on holidays with Akira and another Oni around these times, but with the whole end of the world thing (and Akira growing apart from him), I doubt he’d still be the same carefree and cheery character he was introduced as. (Though I do wonder what the other Oni is thinking about all this, since as far as I know, he has no knowledge of the whole end of the world thing).
Another thing: Zanki is able to come back as a ghost because… Shuriken passed on her forbidden knowledge to him. But that reminds me of a question I never brought up before: where did she learn those skills to begin with? Did she train in Kansai before transferring to Kanto? Anyway, next time’s lyrics: Ibuki’s image song, Umarete wa kiete yuku kaze wo ayatsutte Doko made mo tsuzuku rekishi wo tsumugo Boku-tachi wa hitori ja nai Yume ni mita risou mada tooku mietatte Kimi no supiido de chikazukebaii Kimi wa mou hitori ja nai - Tomokazu Seki, Fuuga Yuuden |
11-12-2020, 10:59 AM | #632 |
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Quote:
Another thing: Zanki is able to come back as a ghost because… Shuriken passed on her forbidden knowledge to him. But that reminds me of a question I never brought up before: where did she learn those skills to begin with? Did she train in Kansai before transferring to Kanto?
I mean, if someone wanted to eventually tell that story? Awesome. I'd love to get a deeper read on Shuki. But I'm not sure it's something for the TV show to try and nail down at this point.
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11-12-2020, 04:50 PM | #633 |
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KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI VOLUME 46 - "MASTERING THE ONI WAY"
KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI VOLUME 47 - "WORDS TO LIVE BY" "It rides beside me It has no choice It's my life It is my voice It is stupid It is my noise" -Superchunk, "My Noise" There's a lot of setup for the finale in these two episodes, on both plot and thematic levels. The plot stuff is... I mean, it is what it is at this point. The threat of Orochi is either overwhelming or theoretical, depending on the scene. You'll get a cliffhanger of the Makamou swarming over a city, limitless, endangering all life; and then in the next episode you'll have characters enjoying the calm before the storm, not a monster around. The stakes are so subjective as to be not worth thinking about. And that's not even counting how nebulous the entire Orochi thing is to begin with, where it just sort of happens, a million old monsters pop up each episode, and then the Oni get pointed to the one place that a drummer can defeat it. It's... there is not a lot of meat on that bone. The only real source of tension, beyond the usual Or Else All Life On Earth Is Destroyed, is that Ibuki gets picked to avert the apocalypse, which... look. I will give the show Ibuki being chosen to eliminate Shuki a few episodes ago. He's the golden boy, and that was something that they needed to give to someone who won't necessarily ask a ton of questions. Ibuki does what he's told, and that's what they needed at the time. But the idea of HQ picking him to drum so well that the apocalypse is prevented? When Hibiki's right there? It's a dumb twist, and it mostly exists as a way to give Ibuki something to do for an episode. Worse, you know that Hibiki's going to take over for the finale, so every moment we have to watch Ibuki fret over this feels like a waste of time. There was no reason to make Ibuki the guy for this, so we're just waiting for Hibiki to get sick of pretending that this won't fall on his shoulders. Thematically, things work a little better. Like, the Ibuki thing is incredibly stupid on a plot level (moreso since Ibuki is so terrified of dying that he's forgotten how to drum effectively), but it works okay on a thematic level. It's part of what these two episodes are trying to explore, the reasons we pursue goals and the things that make life worth living. Ibuki views the role of the Oni as someone who'll fight and die to protect people, so he's trying to be okay with potentially/definitely dying if he has to end Orochi on his own. But that's not the point of being an Oni. It's not about viewing your life as less important than others, it's about valuing living so much that you won't let monsters stand in the way of that. Ibuki's not weak because he doesn't want to leave Kasumi. That's his strength. He's stronger for wanting to keep living. Hibiki basically calls this out when he reminds Ibuki that if you die in a fight, you lost. These dudes are training to win! It is okay to want to not die in a fight, Ibuki! The other big part of the Let's Talk About The Themes Of The Series end of things falls, naturally, to the boys. Asumu continues his activities in the panel theater group, while Kiriya dedicates himself fully to the Oni lifestyle. Can you guess which of these I was more into? Asumu's in a very questioning mood, and, like AsuMum, I'm super into it. While Asumu is physically and temperamentally suited to be an Oni, it's not really his calling. He wanted to try it, to see if it was what was missing in his life, but it might not be. Making people happy, bringing a little light into the world, that's giving him a better feeling than defending the world from monsters. But is that enough? Is he letting Hibiki down? Is art pointless in a world of violence? To the show's credit, it doesn't really land on answers to those questions. There's a sense that Asumu knows what he wants (art) and what he doesn't (being threatened by monsters), but the burn on this one is pretty slow. Kiriya's around to act as the surrogate for the parts of the audience who don't care about the non-Oni elements of this show, denigrating Asumu's ambivalence and feeling personally aggrieved by him stepping aside as a potential Oni. It's pure, unfiltered Kiriya for him to take Asumu's personal growth as an insult, a conscious decision to rob Kiriya of a victory. It's cute, how even when he's becoming someone who could maybe possibly sort of be an Oni, Kiriya is still willing to be a gigantic baby. The more things change, you know? I actually did enjoy the Kiriya parts of these episodes. I like how he's willing to be humbled in pursuit of his goals. It's something that you'd've never expected of Kiriya a dozen episodes ago, so I really appreciate how naturally the show built to his Not Being The Worst But Still Being Not Great attitude change. There's a clear sense of Kiriya being able to acknowledge and overcome his weaknesses, even if his competitiveness will always be his Achilles heel. I like that he's better, without becoming good, if that makes any sense. But, anyway, I really like what's going on with Asumu here. I joked about wanting the show to follow Asumu into panel theater more than I wanted the show to be about him training to be an Oni. Except it wasn't a joke, I meant it, and it's the best part of this show right now. It's all about how it's important to care for people (series theme), how you shouldn't be afraid to try new things (series theme), how you should be willing to follow your passions (series theme), how it's not for others to tell you how to live your life (series theme), how art has value in a world of violence (series theme), and how we need to create art that children can learn and grow from (series theme). It's... this Asumu Joins Panel Theater Club is the endgame of the show. And I think it's working pretty well.
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11-12-2020, 06:25 PM | #634 |
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Believe it or not, this is not the first Toku show debuting in 2005 to reference the story of the honest Axe (which is about a woodcutter who drops his axe in a spring, and the goddess tries to tempt him with gold and silver axes, but when he gets his old axe back, she gives him the other two). It was previously spoofed in Magiranger’s Super Video (Sentai’s answer to the HBVs), with red hero Kai dropping his changer into a spring and the goddess (who looks surprisingly like his mother) offers him either a silver version of it or a gold version of the sixth hero’s changer as a replacement. Despite 75% of his siblings saying “no”, Kai goes with the gold one and ends up learning a lesson about lying.
Now for episode 47’s music choice, Armed Hibiki’s theme song (even though I’m not sure it actually appeared in the episode) Sore wa yami no sekai Dare mo shiranai fushigi na hanashi Tatakai wa mou hajimatte iru Tsuki ga michiru you ni Atsumatte kuru jaaku na chikara Subete wo ima kowasu mae ni — Masatoshi Ono, Hibiki Kenzan And the song choice for episode 48, the last episode (which is a slightly obvious choice). It’s not the last contribution to this feature though. Marude tōmei ni natta mitai Zenbu jibun wo surinukete yuku Sonna fuu ni Kanjiteta no kai? Shonen yo! Tabitatsu no nara Hareta hi ni mune wo hatte Hit to beat! Keep your beat! Kokoro ga furueru bashō sagashite Hit to beat! Keep your beat! Dare ni mo dekinai koto mitsuke dase Sore ga kimi no hibiki - Akira Fuse, Shonen Yo. |
11-12-2020, 09:34 PM | #635 |
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I always felt that the Ibuki thing in these episodes was a really cheap attempt to throw some more interpersonal conflict into the final arc. It doesn't really fit with what we know about Takeshi as an organization or Ibuki as a character. I never bought into that storyline.
Now the Asumu stuff, that did work for me. I was always on Team Don't Make Asumu an Oni and I liked seeing him start going in a different direction. Having him find other ways to help people that doesn't involve hitting CGI crabs with drumsticks is great by me. I can really see him ending up as a member of Takeshi, but one who assists the Oni from the backline, like Ichiro or Midori. Anyway, I apparently missed highlighting the one Kiriya moment that I liked. I've been meaning to point it out, but you didn't call attention to it and I have no idea what episode it was. It was back when he and Asumu first started their training and Kiriya was failing pathetically at everything, so he showed up with all of his academic trophies to try and impress Hibiki. I loved how hilariously pathetic that whole scene was: "I'm totally worthy of being your apprentice! Look at my French trophy and badge for mathematic excellence!" Fantastic schadenfreude in that scene. |
11-12-2020, 09:49 PM | #636 |
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Quote:
Believe it or not, this is not the first Toku show debuting in 2005 to reference the story of the honest Axe (which is about a woodcutter who drops his axe in a spring, and the goddess tries to tempt him with gold and silver axes, but when he gets his old axe back, she gives him the other two). It was previously spoofed in Magiranger’s Super Video (Sentai’s answer to the HBVs), with red hero Kai dropping his changer into a spring and the goddess (who looks surprisingly like his mother) offers him either a silver version of it or a gold version of the sixth hero’s changer as a replacement. Despite 75% of his siblings saying “no”, Kai goes with the gold one and ends up learning a lesson about lying.
Quote:
I always felt that the Ibuki thing in these episodes was a really cheap attempt to throw some more interpersonal conflict into the final arc. It doesn't really fit with what we know about Takeshi as an organization or Ibuki as a character. I never bought into that storyline.
Now the Asumu stuff, that did work for me. I was always on Team Don't Make Asumu an Oni and I liked seeing him start going in a different direction. Having him find other ways to help people that doesn't involve hitting CGI crabs with drumsticks is great by me. I can really see him ending up as a member of Takeshi, but one who assists the Oni from the backline, like Ichiro or Midori. Similarly, it's a little weird that no one (yet) has brought up putting Asumu or Akira into support roles. Although, even then, folks like Midori and Ichiro find themselves thrust into combat on occasion, so I'm guessing the kids would still opt out. Which is I guess the main thing for Takeshi, how all-or-nothing it is. There aren't "safe" jobs in Takeshi, and you never know when you might be called up. Still, I don't think that's the main problem Akira and Asumu have? It's not that they're scared, or that they don't believe in Takeshi's mission; it's that it's not their passion, not how they best want to give back to the world. They want to live a life doing something they care about, and they're still figuring out what that is. Quote:
Anyway, I apparently missed highlighting the one Kiriya moment that I liked. I've been meaning to point it out, but you didn't call attention to it and I have no idea what episode it was. It was back when he and Asumu first started their training and Kiriya was failing pathetically at everything, so he showed up with all of his academic trophies to try and impress Hibiki. I loved how hilariously pathetic that whole scene was: "I'm totally worthy of being your apprentice! Look at my French trophy and badge for mathematic excellence!" Fantastic schadenfreude in that scene.
But, yeah, hilarious. I imagine he'd've even brought a letter from his mom, if he could get her to take his call.
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11-13-2020, 06:17 AM | #637 |
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Just remembered I had this link saved for the purposes of some mild attempt at black comedy concerning episode 45 and never used it. Might as well put it here.
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11-13-2020, 02:14 PM | #638 |
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Ok. Mada mada. I've been in conflict within myself onto touching the 2nd half of Hibiki or not, it has taken a long time like this, and of course the people's feedback (and likely mine based on previous stance) of it for good reason, but probably regardless of that, more knowledge within KR stuff is important for discussions, but gotta skim through those in a less wasting time way.
Quote:
And as Kiriya is a reviled character for a plausible reason, like contaminating the purity of the series that has been established previously (and doesn't mean there are no bad behaving people like that shoplifter or to a lesser extent, Danki) as Switchblade said, and as he talks about how horrible behavior makes him interesting while Asumu's is boring in comparison, I'm afraid this will be not only something you blindly agree upon, but also be exalted and glorified, which happened on many occassions in real life or internet (where this is the place where behaviors can go unrestrained in real life or fiction - but the thing is how people respond), like for instance, mocking anyone who hate/can't stand Kiriya or similar type of characters as someone who's boring, stagnant, fragile, loser, etc., and deserves mistreatment (they can shittalk those people to no end, cuz apparently if you're "boring" you deserve torture), and I see those people who belittle those that can't stand these type as potential bullies (or plain supporters) themselves, some occassions had those people who can't stand shitbags as too sensitive to justify the bullies' behaviors. Another case is also forcing people to enjoy the toxic conflict of Kiriya and Asumu, for similar reasons as above (as you once claimed "conflicts as definitely the most memorable", and it sounds like claiming that as fact when it's clearly subjective, and other than I'm trying to explain about types of conflict, that also should be exemplified in for example, Switchblade stated them about Kiriya vs previous Hibiki). Quote:
I think the biggest change, narratively, is how we're shifting from the drama being an External thing to an Internal thing? These are no longer purely good people who are working together in a nice, friendly way. They're Inoue characters now, so they're going to frequently be petty, or rude, or mean, or lazy, or or or. Even the jokey Hibiki thread in this one has a beat where Ichiro and Hinaka play up their illness to get out of work. That's a dick move!
Had this been the way things were from the start... well, a lot of folks didn't seem to love Faiz, so I'm not sure the appraisal would've been that different. But I think there'd be less of a feeling that the characters Aren't Right, which can only help. And another thing is, other than Inoue's characters being petty, rude, mean, etc. the good natured folks existed to be his punching bag and made as inferior to those shitbags. And by that, it can come off as offensive too and I wish that not to be glorified, it seems like the author being a bully in their writings to project those harassment or in their writings instead. These are claimed to give development and challenge, but "as dark and intense as possible", doesn't necessarily equal to really good character arc or development, as some people called out. This is when dark ventures into edgy territory, and those that indulges on it are called edgelords (they're bad person, just not threatening due to them being all bark no bite though). Appraisal would be different probably because, making them be petty, rude, mean, etc. just for the sake of hellish world would make them insanely OOC, and that ventures into edgy territory. The thing for deceased father is that, usually (not all), father is the one who works to gain incomes for family, and mother is the one who spends time at home to develop the child, by that it seems that both genders complete each other in raising a kid. Having only a mom would potentially lead to difficult income, having only a dad would potentially lead to lack of time with parents, not meaning that raising by alone is impossible, but still that'd be the impact of losing either one. And for Asumu's plot of learning about his father is, and finding the strength... I don't think that's what people complain about the 2nd half of Hibiki, that pretty much stays like the 1st half of Hibiki of the Asumu's conflict within himself, and not about, sometimes forced fights with others (this is kind of a bad and uncreative type of writing, resorting to make the characters do stupid, impulsive decisions just so a "plot" can happen). With Kiriya's success at school and his skills, but with his father issues that haunted him no matter what, bad moments will plausibly lead to that I know, but I knew a character who also had huge success, and when little, gone through trauma like this. He's not a bad guy, but kind of someone who was given a free pass by some fans with one of the reasons being of those trauma (being cool also doesn't help), regardless of how his state is now. But the counter statement was that a troubled past alone does not a woobie make, especially when you're far cry from that time, like enjoying a massive success on school. Eh? So heavy humor not having real dramatic impact wouldn't make it stick in your brain... And as you said yeah, we never met Kogure before, I wonder if Kogure is a late new addition that is somehow very integral to the cast, where he was never brought up before, which is a potential retcon, or already planned before. Kogure is a parody of stern disciplinarian, but he comes off as really standoffish, he just seems to be very self-centered, hypocritical, and self-righteous; he regularly calls out others for what he thinks is misbehaving towards him, but he likely always thinks of himself in the right and has full rights to punish anyone in any ways he like, that's far from being a role model (where the story or Takeshi seems to view him as). Personally I find it hard to believe that Takeshi learned from him and setting himself as an example, given how well adjusted they're at first half of Hibiki, and how self-righteous Kogure is. And your problem being leaving Asumu with nothing to do there? Yeah, that's one of people's complaint about the 2nd half of Hibiki.
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11-13-2020, 02:46 PM | #639 |
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KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI VOLUME 45 - “ZANKI’S GLORIOUS DEATH”
I did not dig the Zanki/Todoroki story, basically because it does the exact opposite. The Asumu/Kiriya plot is all about them absorbing these lessons without Hibiki directly telling them to do something. The Todoroki plot is literally Hibiki and Ibuki saying Here Is What Lesson You Need To Learn To Let Your Dad Rest In Peace. It takes what should be a graceful, touching finale for Zanki, and makes it plodding, obvious. It removes any sense of growth or journey from Todoroki’s story, and that is criminal. The whole point of putting Todoroki through all of this was for this emotional climax, and it’s less Oh My God than God Finally. It just… it fundamentally didn’t work for me, the Todoroki stuff in this. Setting aside some of the logistics (What in the hell happened to the dead Zanki body that Ibuki found on the shore?) (Also, isn’t Todoroki Hitomi’s cousin? Why hasn’t she been to see him in the hospital?) (Did the Oni keep Todoroki’s guitar in his hospital room? When he was crippled?) (Just… why are the Makamou seemingly targeting the Oni? This seems like a big deal and the show hasn’t mentioned it once!) (Jesus, the plotting in this one…), I just couldn’t connect with a lot of the emotional storytelling. There are no real surprises to it, no turns in the story. It does exactly what it says on the tin, you know? Zanki has a glorious death. Every step along the path is pretty much exactly what you’d think. Zanki was a hero who refused to let his imminent death stop him from helping his apprentice become his own person to the point that he was willing to gamble his soul, which gave Todoroki the strength and courage to be independent and give Zanki the opportunity to die on his own terms and save his soul. This was the end of Zanki and the true start of Todoroki. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI VOLUME 46 - “MASTERING THE ONI WAY”
KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI VOLUME 47 - “WORDS TO LIVE BY” The other big part of the Let’s Talk About The Themes Of The Series end of things falls, naturally, to the boys. Asumu continues his activities in the panel theater group, while Kiriya dedicates himself fully to the Oni lifestyle. Can you guess which of these I was more into? Asumu’s in a very questioning mood, and, like AsuMum, I’m super into it. While Asumu is physically and temperamentally suited to be an Oni, it’s not really his calling. He wanted to try it, to see if it was what was missing in his life, but it might not be. Making people happy, bringing a little light into the world, that’s giving him a better feeling than defending the world from monsters. But is that enough? Is he letting Hibiki down? Is art pointless in a world of violence? To the show’s credit, it doesn’t really land on answers to those questions. There’s a sense that Asumu knows what he wants (art) and what he doesn’t (being threatened by monsters), but the burn on this one is pretty slow. Kiriya’s around to act as the surrogate for the parts of the audience who don’t care about the non-Oni elements of this show, denigrating Asumu’s ambivalence and feeling personally aggrieved by him stepping aside as a potential Oni. It’s pure, unfiltered Kiriya for him to take Asumu’s personal growth as an insult, a conscious decision to rob Kiriya of a victory. It’s cute, how even when he’s becoming someone who could maybe possibly sort of be an Oni, Kiriya is still willing to be a gigantic baby. The more things change, you know? I actually did enjoy the Kiriya parts of these episodes. I like how he's willing to be humbled in pursuit of his goals. It's something that you'd've never expected of Kiriya a dozen episodes ago, so I really appreciate how naturally the show built to his Not Being The Worst But Still Being Not Great attitude change. There's a clear sense of Kiriya being able to acknowledge and overcome his weaknesses, even if his competitiveness will always be his Achilles heel. I like that he's better, without becoming good, if that makes any sense. Shounen doesn't know what he wants. Oni work behind the scenes of everyday life. It's a dangerous job that protects people from an unseen threat so they can keep enjoying life, unaware of the secret heroes who take risks for their sake. But there are more direct, simple ways to bring happiness, like Shounen granting a little girl's wish to see him perform his panel theater. His heart isn't in being an Oni and that's okay, cause he has his own way of life and Hibiki supports him becoming his best self, not succeeding his name. Kiriya doesn't understand that and feels insulted but it's also a sign that he respects Shounen in his own way, by judging his success based on whether or not he can surpass him. Kiriya's father also had a dangerous job as a fireman and it cost him his life. Now that's the life Kiriya wants for himself as an Oni and he wants to be a hero who saves people. Even though he has a bad way of showing it, he cares about people and only acts cold to push them to be better. So it makes sense that he would be willing to take responsibility for his own mistakes if Hibiki points out he screwed up by dropping out of school. However, his speech about finding something he could dedicate himself to was genuine and unfortunately, his classmates probably think he's incredulous now. He's definitely had a lot of character development which I think not everybody appreciates how much he's willing to become a better person and while he's not naturally athletic like Shounen, he's training diligently and I think he's in a good place to succeed Hibiki.
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11-13-2020, 03:49 PM | #640 |
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Ok. Mada mada. I've been in conflict within myself onto touching the 2nd half of Hibiki or not, it has taken a long time like this, and of course the people's feedback (and likely mine based on previous stance) of it for good reason, but probably regardless of that, more knowledge within KR stuff is important for discussions, but gotta skim through those in a less wasting time way.
... oh god i honestly don't remember any of this the episodes or what i wrote about them i'm so sorry I appreciate your responses, though! Quote:
It's sad to hear that you didn't feel strongly for Zanki's heroic last stand. If I had to praise Hibiki's second half for one thing, it would be bringing Zanki out of retirement and back in to the action. Other than the controversial Yobuko arc, I appreciated the direction of Zanki's and Todoroki's plot. Even after graduating and getting his Oni name, Todoroki always seemed like he was reluctant to go it alone, still trying to figure out his own style and depended on his comrades to carry him. Ending up in the same position as Zanki, badly wounded and told he couldn't henshin anymore, made him realize this.
Zanki was a hero who refused to let his imminent death stop him from helping his apprentice become his own person to the point that he was willing to gamble his soul, which gave Todoroki the strength and courage to be independent and give Zanki the opportunity to die on his own terms and save his soul. This was the end of Zanki and the true start of Todoroki. Quote:
Shounen doesn't know what he wants. Oni work behind the scenes of everyday life. It's a dangerous job that protects people from an unseen threat so they can keep enjoying life, unaware of the secret heroes who take risks for their sake. But there are more direct, simple ways to bring happiness, like Shounen granting a little girl's wish to see him perform his panel theater. His heart isn't in being an Oni and that's okay, cause he has his own way of life and Hibiki supports him becoming his best self, not succeeding his name. Kiriya doesn't understand that and feels insulted but it's also a sign that he respects Shounen in his own way, by judging his success based on whether or not he can surpass him.
Kiriya's father also had a dangerous job as a fireman and it cost him his life. Now that's the life Kiriya wants for himself as an Oni and he wants to be a hero who saves people. Even though he has a bad way of showing it, he cares about people and only acts cold to push them to be better. So it makes sense that he would be willing to take responsibility for his own mistakes if Hibiki points out he screwed up by dropping out of school. However, his speech about finding something he could dedicate himself to was genuine and unfortunately, his classmates probably think he's incredulous now. He's definitely had a lot of character development which I think not everybody appreciates how much he's willing to become a better person and while he's not naturally athletic like Shounen, he's training diligently and I think he's in a good place to succeed Hibiki.
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