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02-04-2014, 09:37 PM | #9011 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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Oh it was two guys? I thought it was three. Still, that is two guys he didn't help. One would be bad enough.
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02-04-2014, 09:42 PM | #9012 |
I'm an agile cat.
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Posts: 6,020
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Next episode, the virus Dopant appears itself and kills the guy before Shotaro has a chance to act, which he curses. Mostly because it appeared out of nowhere just after the car was destroyed. Next time it attacks, he saves the guy. Afterthat, the Dopant escapes, later returns, and after a brief chase with the guy W defeats it.
At no point was Shotaro unheroic. He hesitated after the last kill, but only because he felt the Dopant wasn't a typical aggressor, and that it was "crying." At no point did he let anyone die, they were all killed before he had time to intervene, even though he acted. He didn't save them, but he didn't let them be killed. So yeah, three guys. One happened before Shotaro even knew about the car. The second in the parking garage before Shotaro could do anything. The third was a surprise after he beat the car and the Dopant quickly ensnared the guy and infected him before Shotaro could even switch to Luna. Last edited by SPLIT LIP; 02-04-2014 at 09:50 PM.. |
02-04-2014, 09:50 PM | #9013 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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First one, he rolled out of the way and Virus got him - he felt bad about this, but considering the episode that came before this it wasn't nearly as much of a big deal as it should have been.
Second he hid behind the pillar, when he could of acted and just didn't. Third one, I don't actually remember very well. Fourth one - he puts the wrong person in the hospital, this is ultimately a justified act, but left a sort of lingering awkwardness as someone who wasn't really a villain was left by the end of the episode hobbling around on crutches because of W. I kinda blocked a lot of this arc out of my mind, as it had some good visuals but Sho was terribly written this episode and it didn't carry the continuity or themes of the show very well at all. If I just forget Virus ever happened Sho is a much better hero, and with the fact that none of the events of this arc seem to play on him at all, I guess the show forgot all this happened. I also perfectly appreciate that a hero can't save anyone, as a big comics fan, I've seen this story done a LOT of times. But considering how much he failed during the Virus arc, I think he's a bit of a dick to ride on a high horse as much as he does around Ryu and Ryu's more questionable approaches to justice.
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02-04-2014, 10:02 PM | #9014 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Second he hid behind the pillar, when he could of acted and just didn't.
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Third one, I don't actually remember very well.
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Fourth one - he puts the wrong person in the hospital, this is ultimately a justified act, but left a sort of lingering awkwardness as someone who wasn't really a villain was left by the end of the episode hobbling around on crutches because of W.
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02-04-2014, 10:06 PM | #9015 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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Sho should have been aware of the space around him. If he rolls out of the way of the car, of course it's going to go straight into the victim. And oh yeah, the second one is when Sho runs away with the criminals, rather than standing his ground and fighting allowing them to get away. He should have attempted to slow down the car, or block it. And before you tell me that is risky, well yeah, look at everything else he has done. It just felt like he didn't try, considering all we've seen him do for people in every other episode.
And the fourth one was just kinda brutal, is all. We don't generally see what happens after a Memory Smash, their eyes just go a bit tired and then pass out and it cuts away. So to actually see him left hospitalised and broken was a bit problematic. Especially as the arc never quite once condemned his actions.
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02-04-2014, 10:23 PM | #9016 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,020
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That's really pushing it, though. You've turned it from "he's unheroic" to "he should've been faster."
He not going to be able to save everyone. Especially when the first time the guy left him and ran away. What was Shotaro going to do, get hit by the car? The fourth one totally isn't his fault. He thought the car driver was the Dopant, and memory breaks usually don't injure them. The idea being a Maximum Drive overloads the memory to the point where it's just enough to break the memory, leaving the person unharmed aside from the withdrawl symptoms. Thing is, since the car was only controlled by the dopant, it didn't offer him any protection. W didn't know that. (And that's pretty reasonable since the car kept turning into a monster and driving while smashed) Your best case is the parking garage bit, but even then it's not really blatant unheroics when immediately after he jumps onto the car in an attempt to stop it. I'd credit it to poor staging rather than poor characterization. The scene could've been shot to more clearly show the distance away from Shotaro. I do blame Philip, though, as he was more concerned with proving ridiculous superstitions than saving peopel while Shotaro was. And all this hardly makes his character hypocritical. That was much earlier in the show, and I've always been of the mind that the early episodes feel much less finely tuned. Why that is considered the baseline rather than a hiccup I don't get, since as you said the show clearly makes him heroic. It's still a damn fine better than waiting in the shadows while a woman is consumed before you so you can strut out like a cocky prick and dictate morals to a monster who clearly doesn't give a shit- sorry, sorry, I just... dammit Otoya, you couldn't even pretend to feel bad that someone was murdered before you? |
02-04-2014, 10:24 PM | #9017 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
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W 23. Man Ryu and Sho are so gay. Ryu pulled Sho right into his crotch, and then Sho pulled Ryu right into his face. I knew something was suspicious about Ryu, with his leathers and little boy haircut.
An X-Factor Parody episode? Dafook. It was pretty funny though, to be fair. When this show does comedy, it really does it well. It proves you don't have to do that goofy crap sentai does. I guess a big part of that is Riders ability to really make you care for the characters. The Liar Dopant was really cool looking, and probably the best quality of suit we've seen in the show so far. Seriously wishing the Sonozaki got some of these suits, rather than shit like Clay Doll and Terror. Considering how regularly, and poorly, toku generally treats women, it's nice that Saeko is such a great villain. And so ridiculously independent as well. It may kinda go against her that she is a villain, but I'd certainly like more of her and less of 'the pink one' women of super sentai. Plus she is really hot (), Weather must have thought Christmas had come early when she turned up all dolled up for him. On the other hand, I really don't like how Wakana has grown into someone so cutesy and goofy. I liked it before when she pretended to be a princess, and was actually a bit of bitch. Really she doesn't feel like a villain AT ALL any more, but then maybe that is the point. Then there is Terror, our big bad. He's probably the least threatening big bad I've ever met. Not only is the Terror suit rubbish, but he's just this slightly creepy looking old guy who seems to be in more gag scenes than he is serious ones. I never really feel any intensity or menace from him at all. Also man, Weather's outfit and theme music, so ridiculous! @Split. I didn't change it, you convinced me! I still overall thought it was a pretty shit spectacle of Sho as a hero, and an arc best left forgotten. Even if there is arguments that he isn't nearly as bad as the arc makes him come across.
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02-04-2014, 10:30 PM | #9018 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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It proves you don't have to do that goofy crap sentai does. I guess a big part of that is Riders ability to really make you care for the characters.
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The Liar Dopant was really cool looking, and probably the best quality of suit we've seen in the show so far. Seriously wishing the Sonozaki got some of these suits, rather than shit like Clay Doll and Terror.
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Considering how regularly, and poorly, toku generally treats women, it's nice that Saeko is such a great villain. And so ridiculously independent as well. It may kinda go against her that she is a villain, but I'd certainly like more of her and less of 'the pink one' women of super sentai. Plus she is really hot (), Weather must have thought Christmas had come early when she turned up all dolled up for him.
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On the other hand, I really don't like how Wakana has grown into someone so cutesy and goofy. I liked it before when she pretended to be a princess, and was actually a bit of bitch. Really she doesn't feel like a villain AT ALL any more, but then maybe that is the point.
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I think W had a bit of a time because before that Rider shows had a bit of a pattern that exists even today. Overtly, they were starting to switch motif patterns between the esoteric and mystical to technological. Like Kuuga/Agito/Ryuki being very 'magical' riders, and Faiz/Blade looking more technical. (Faiz moreso) Then of course Hibiki was oni, then Kabuto was techno, etc. There was also a somewhat of a tonal pattern kicking up. Kabuto was serious and fairly dark, but Den-O was bright and cartoony. Then Kiva brought back gratuitous civilian deaths and stare-at-the-floor riders. Then Decade happened, and since it was a special event series, it was kind of all over the place. So W was kind of left without anything to solidly contrast. I think that's why it wasn't sure if it wanted to be lighter or darker at first, but it sorted and evened out quickly IMO. Though the tones are much less black and white, the motif pattern actually remains stronger now. W is technology, OOO is mysticism, Fourze was space and gadgets, Wizard was magic, and now gaim is a bit more of a fusion, but the armours are all clearly mechanical and teh Sengoku driver is constructed technology verses a mystical artifcat or something. Last edited by SPLIT LIP; 02-04-2014 at 10:38 PM.. |
02-04-2014, 10:35 PM | #9019 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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The thing is, it isn't even a moment the show draws attention to, so it feels totally unscripted. Ryu x Sho fo'life. And here I was thinking Sho was coming onto Phillip this whole time! (eyebrows at the w entendre there).
I wish they designed the Sonozaki's at the end, when they'd really grasped some cool ideas for the suits. Most of the early designs can be written off, like Money *shudder* I can deal with Wakana being a hero, but I wanted Nazca to become a Kamen Rider ;-; I also heard nothing back from Mandrake so I don't think I got the SHF D:
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02-05-2014, 12:25 AM | #9020 |
I FOW our new Hasbro OLs
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: TN
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That's really pushing it, though. You've turned it from "he's unheroic" to "he should've been faster."
He not going to be able to save everyone. Especially when the first time the guy left him and ran away. What was Shotaro going to do, get hit by the car? The fourth one totally isn't his fault. He thought the car driver was the Dopant, and memory breaks usually don't injure them. The idea being a Maximum Drive overloads the memory to the point where it's just enough to break the memory, leaving the person unharmed aside from the withdrawl symptoms. Thing is, since the car was only controlled by the dopant, it didn't offer him any protection. W didn't know that. (And that's pretty reasonable since the car kept turning into a monster and driving while smashed) Your best case is the parking garage bit, but even then it's not really blatant unheroics when immediately after he jumps onto the car in an attempt to stop it. I'd credit it to poor staging rather than poor characterization. The scene could've been shot to more clearly show the distance away from Shotaro. I do blame Philip, though, as he was more concerned with proving ridiculous superstitions than saving peopel while Shotaro was. And all this hardly makes his character hypocritical. That was much earlier in the show, and I've always been of the mind that the early episodes feel much less finely tuned. Why that is considered the baseline rather than a hiccup I don't get, since as you said the show clearly makes him heroic. It's still a damn fine better than waiting in the shadows while a woman is consumed before you so you can strut out like a cocky prick and dictate morals to a monster who clearly doesn't give a shit- sorry, sorry, I just... dammit Otoya, you couldn't even pretend to feel bad that someone was murdered before you? |
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