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02-24-2022, 01:51 AM | #561 |
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Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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Y'know I hate this whole Heisei Phase 1 and Phase 2 nonsense. It all just the Heisei Era. It's not like the emperor died and was ressurected as a robot halfway through his run or anything. What next are we goijg to being calling it Reiwa Phase 2; 8 years from now? To me the overall whole of Heisei from Kuuga to ZI-O has been great it truly is my favaorite Era in Rider and will be for a long time now.
I do get what you mean by finality though sometimes a show is better off with the show ending. But you know what I realized? Almost always it dosen't matter. Let me make an example Star Wars the main thing is the movies and the book are side thing they tell expanded stories and even featuring returning characters and they maybe canon but it still the movies that people are going to remember and know. To me the tv show matters the most and anything after that should always be optional.
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02-24-2022, 02:07 AM | #562 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Beyond that... I think there's a definite tonal difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2? The immediate focus on Collectibles -- pioneered by W -- is a massive alteration to the formula, and every single show that followed would need to address its assumption in some way. Add to that the ways Winter/Spring/Summer movies altered the storytelling structure, the Den-O-inflected comedy becoming more of a standard flavor, and more stuff I can't think of right now? It's not Heisei-to-Showa different, but there's enough identity to the two Phases to make it reasonable to acknowledge. Quote:
I do get what you mean by finality though sometimes a show is better off with the show ending. But you know what I realized? Almost always it dosen't matter. Let me make an example Star Wars the main thing is the movies and the book are side thing they tell expanded stories and even featuring returning characters and they maybe canon but it still the movies that people are going to remember and know. To me the tv show matters the most and anything after that should always be optional.
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02-24-2022, 03:39 AM | #563 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 462
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I do at least personally think that each show should get one teamup a year after for fairness reasons like most sentai as in, in the days of Kabuto it would have been nice to have seen what Kagami and co were doing a year on and possibly had Kagami as Kabuto even though a teamup with Den-O would have probably not have given Kabuto much focus, like with the Kiva one!
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02-24-2022, 10:24 AM | #564 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I do at least personally think that each show should get one teamup a year after for fairness reasons like most sentai as in, in the days of Kabuto it would have been nice to have seen what Kagami and co were doing a year on and possibly had Kagami as Kabuto even though a teamup with Den-O would have probably not have given Kabuto much focus, like with the Kiva one!
I like the little Phase 2 epilogues on one level. Sometimes the shows end in a somewhat rushed way, and it's nice to get a little more closure on our various heroes. Especially with a massive supporting cast, I think it's okay to have them pop in for a scene or two. But on the other hand... like, thank god there was never a Blade/Hibiki crossover movie. We'd've gotten some contrived reason why Kenzaki and Hajime could team up to take down some Makamou, and split up forever AGAIN, and it would've always tainted Blade's TV ending. I'm literally getting mad just thinking about this purely hypothetical example. So, yeah, not sure I like it as a bare minimum requirement!
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02-24-2022, 12:45 PM | #565 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
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On the one hand, it's great to see our heroes return. It's symbolic of how they live on, in our hearts long after the show is over, that they can still elicit such emotion, that they kept fighting for justice even off-screen. But on the other hand, sometimes it feels like a story can never be over. There always has to be more trials, each more convoluted than the last.
I feel like. ironically enough given you Die, Ex-Aid is kinda where that takes hold? Before that, each Rider gets 1/3 of a film for an epilogue, and that's it. One last Ride, as convoluted as it is, and done. Sure, Gaim and Drive have post-story V-Cins, but they felt like special occasions (half of them take place during the show), but then Ex-Aid... an entire trilogy was announced the day of the finale. And it's a lovely open-ended finale, you say to yourself, so maybe it works, but then Build does the same with a much more restricted setting, and then again more recently with Zero-One and Saber... Maybe it's like the 2-week structure put in place by Den-O, which lasted 7 years until Gaim broke it wide open. Things will change in the future.
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02-24-2022, 12:56 PM | #566 |
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
On the one hand, it's great to see our heroes return. It's symbolic of how they live on, in our hearts long after the show is over, that they can still elicit such emotion, that they kept fighting for justice even off-screen. But on the other hand, sometimes it feels like a story can never be over. There always has to be more trials, each more convoluted than the last.
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02-24-2022, 01:11 PM | #567 |
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Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,553
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Yeah, there’s only so much you can go with a character without it requiring a total reset to justify the story…
And hats where I’ll leave this thread, on that ominous ellipsis. |
02-24-2022, 06:22 PM | #568 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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...But you know, the guy who wanted to things to end while they were still beautiful was also the bad guy in that finale. I definitely have similar feelings to you on this matter, which is where that last big paragraph is coming from, but at the same time, I think I've mellowed out a bit on the idea over the years. Where I'm at now, I'd basically put thusly -- it's not okay to need constant continuations, but it is okay to have them. The TV shows still stand on their own as those complete narratives, and while that's what can make it feel frustrating to have the characters still popping up constantly, that's also what makes it a non-issue how those later projects relate back to the source material. This might be colored by my general perspective as someone who doesn't focus on concepts like canon all that much, but like you said about Kuuga in that post, you can't ever really tamper with these things. (And while it may be telling that the Kuuga movie sequel apparently never got off the ground because nobody could think of a satisfying enough plot, it's just as telling that they were all more than willing to give it a shot in the first place.) Quote:
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I think there's a definite tonal difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2? The immediate focus on Collectibles -- pioneered by W -- is a massive alteration to the formula, and every single show that followed would need to address its assumption in some way. Add to that the ways Winter/Spring/Summer movies altered the storytelling structure, the Den-O-inflected comedy becoming more of a standard flavor, and more stuff I can't think of right now? It's not Heisei-to-Showa different, but there's enough identity to the two Phases to make it reasonable to acknowledge.
I honestly lean towards GrandComplete's opinion here, because I think the trends people associate with either era evolved far more gradually than people realize (we've been doing two-parters since Kuuga, for example), but if there's one thing that marks a very, very clear delineation between the two halves of Heisei Rider, it's definitely when Tsukasa's existence cemented the very concept of Legend Riders as we know it now.
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02-24-2022, 06:53 PM | #569 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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--- PROGRAMMING NOTE! I'm about to be switching around some website stuff for my business. The store website is also where I host all of my screencaps, soooo those are all probably going to disappear in the next few hours. But! I'll be setting up a new, permanent online home for them, and I'll start repopulating old posts with those images. (File structures should be identical, so it'll mostly just be changing the domain names.) I'm going to start with this thread, then keep picking my way backwards through the archives. The goal is to get all the old threads fixed before starting Zi-O. In the meantime, old threads/posts are going to look weird. Sorry! I'll get the pictures fixed, at least. (It doesn't seem like the weird text-formatting errors that the site introduced are ever going to get fixed, which is a bummer.) Assuming the switchover/setup isn't too arduous, I'll be back later tonight for the Thread Wrap-Up post. Thanks for your patience!
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02-24-2022, 11:32 PM | #570 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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THREAD WRAP-UP
And that’s it for Kamen Rider Die… uh, what was it again? “Kamen Rider Die rewatches Legend Rider projects (and more!)” Huh. Okay! I guess that’s the name of this thread. Or, was the name of this thread, since I’m all rewatched out. This was fun, though. I know the Series Wrap-Up post makes it sound like I was morally opposed to this project, or whatever, but I sincerely had a good time. These movies (and more) may’ve lacked some of the nuance and follow-through that I most prefer in my storytelling, but they generally delivered excitement and adventure. That’s no small thing, and it worked for me more often than it didn’t. As always, the real delight was in watching these movies and whatnot with all of you. It was probably not the easiest schedule to follow, jumping around through a nine-year span of content, but I appreciated all of your recollections and opinions. Getting to reminisce about favorite heroes and dumb gags and cool twists and heartbreaking finales… just the best fandom, this one. So grateful for every one of you. I’ll be a little scarce for the next couple weeks, despite probably being on the boards more than ever. Website for work is all switched over for e-commerce, and KamenRiderDie.com is fully stocked with old screencaps, so I’m going to be spending a lot of the next two weeks fixing old image links. (This thread is already fixed!) The plan is to get everything back to normal, image-wise (RIP this site’s ability to understand punctuation), by the time we get started on Zi-O. Which is coming up fairly soon! The plan, today, is to kick-off “Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zi-O” on Thursday, March 10th. I’ve got folders of videos, just waiting to be watched. Since this comes up occasionally, here are the subs I’m planning on using: MAIN SERIES: OZC-LIVE OVER QUARTZER: RIDER TIME HEISEI GENERATIONS FOREVER: GENMCORP GEIZ MAJESTY: IPHT DECADE/ZI-O: IPHT RYUKI: OZC-LIVE SHINOBI: OZC-LIVE If any of those subs should be avoided, please let me know! I will do what I can to track down better/preferrable copies. Otherwise, that’s pretty much it for me? Things were written in weird ways, so I don’t really have a complete text document to make into a WordArt. No main Rider from this run (that I didn’t already own), so there’s no new figure to show off. I feel sort of bad? This was only ever supposed to be a gap-filler project, so I didn’t– I didn’t think about the usual components? Sorry! Rest assured, Kamen Rider Zi-O will be a fully-formed project, and all of the pointless affectations will make their appearances. Would you expect anything less for an anniversary series? Thanks for hanging out and talking about Kamen Rider! See you in a couple weeks!
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