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11-01-2020, 06:38 PM | #16141 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,416
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Assuming I'm remembering these episodes right, OOO also very quickly presents a problem when it comes to its gimmick. That problem being that certain combos are just straight upgrades to others.
Heck, right off the bat we have a prominent example; Red-Green-Yellow is a direct upgrade to Red-Yellow-Green. And yet, what is always the go-to combo in later episodes? Tatoba. It gets especially egregious in the last act of the show when Eiji has a ton more Medals and yet, it's always Tatoba. Heck, this even apples to individual Medals and not just Combos. Green's' blades are shown multiple times to be better in every aspect to Yellow's' claws. I get that it's implied that Medajalibur is stronger than all of the sharp weapons provided by individual Medals anyway, but IIRC it's also never explained why only Tatoba can use the sword in the first place.
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11-01-2020, 06:44 PM | #16142 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
Assuming I'm remembering these episodes right, OOO also very quickly presents a problem when it comes to its gimmick. That problem being that certain combos are just straight upgrades to others.
Heck, right off the bat we have a prominent example; Red-Green-Yellow is a direct upgrade to Red-Yellow-Green. And yet, what is always the go-to combo in later episodes? Tatoba. It gets especially egregious in the last act of the show when Eiji has a ton more Medals and yet, it's always Tatoba. Heck, this even apples to individual Medals and not just Combos. Green's' blades are shown multiple times to be better in every aspect to Yellow's' claws. I get that it's implied that Medajalibur is stronger than all of the sharp weapons provided by individual Medals anyway, but IIRC it's also never explained why only Tatoba can use the sword in the first place.
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11-02-2020, 09:26 PM | #16143 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Quote:
This is that one episode Eiji's infamous speech comes from -- "If you can reach out and help someone and you don't... you'll regret that for the rest of your life. I just reach out because I don't want to feel that way". It's a great speech! And one that in context and on my second watch, is clear that it's not all genuine -- it's coming from a place of overwhelming guilt. Even this early on, we've seen enough flashbacks and statements from Eiji to see that he's someone who at his core desperately wants to save everyone he can reach out to, yet has failed tragically in the past and that continues to wear him down. It's this conflict that makes him as interesting as he is for me - even though on the surface he seems like your bog-standard "do good things because it's the right thing to do" toku hero - which is still something I like! - what you've really got here is a question of how much he's motivated by it being the right thing to do, and how much he's motivated by his guilt. It's a great question to tackle and we'll be seeing it unfold more and more throughout the season.
The thing about it not being entirely genuine, that's exactly right, and all those layers are why I honestly find it sooooort of odd seeing this scene treated like just a straightforward inspirational herosim thing? There's a line Hina says to Eiji that prompts this whole thing – and it's a brilliant question to have a character ask of the lead in a superhero show this early on – which is just basically "how could anyone be this unrealistically kind and selfless?" Before he says anything else, Eiji replies that he isn't kind, and while it's easy to take that as simple modesty, it can just as easily be read as genuine self-awareness on his part. Like he knows not helping people would make him personally feel like crap, and that's all he's hung up on. And this is the part where this post is quickly going to lose any cohesion, but I just adore how much can be taken away from all this – that little bit of ambiguity that lends things more than a bit of a depth. How much does Eiji really understand his own issues? Is the selfless hobo shtick his way of confronting them, or just a means to escape them? Are being selfish and selfless even mutually exclusive in this case? Isn't feeling personal pain at the suffering of others the raw essence of heroism? But is that definition for the best? I don't know! But this show'll get you thinking about these things and that's why it's good! I mean, I could go on (and have gone on in the past) about Eiji alone for days. And I'll probably have plenty of opportunities to do that in the near future, so that's something I'm looking forward to. OOO is a series I never seem to run out of thoughts about, so it's nice to have the excuse to maybe get some more of them out there. Oh, and yes, OOO using the Cheetah Medal to tenderize a Yummy IS a hilarious visual. It's embarrassing to admit, but that was probably the main thing I remembered from the episode the first time around. In case it wasn't clear enough what I mean when I always say I took this show for granted...
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11-02-2020, 09:42 PM | #16144 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,481
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I really need to watch ooos and more toku in general.
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11-02-2020, 09:44 PM | #16145 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
It took me a bit to find time to sit down and do this, but I definitely want to say something about this whole speech and why it's so great – after all, I might regret it if I don't!
The thing about it not being entirely genuine, that's exactly right, and all those layers are why I honestly find it sooooort of odd seeing this scene treated like just a straightforward inspirational herosim thing? There's a line Hina says to Eiji that prompts this whole thing – and it's a brilliant question to have a character ask of the lead in a superhero show this early on – which is just basically "how could anyone be this unrealistically kind and selfless?" Before he says anything else, Eiji replies that he isn't kind, and while it's easy to take that as simple modesty, it can just as easily be read as genuine self-awareness on his part. Like he knows not helping people would make him personally feel like crap, and that's all he's hung up on. And this is the part where this post is quickly going to lose any cohesion, but I just adore how much can be taken away from all this – that little bit of ambiguity that lends things more than a bit of a depth. How much does Eiji really understand his own issues? Is the selfless hobo shtick his way of confronting them, or just a means to escape them? Are being selfish and selfless even mutually exclusive in this case? Isn't feeling personal pain at the suffering of others the raw essence of heroism? But is that definition for the best? I don't know! But this show'll get you thinking about these things and that's why it's good! I mean, I could go on (and have gone on in the past) about Eiji alone for days. And I'll probably have plenty of opportunities to do that in the near future, so that's something I'm looking forward to. OOO is a series I never seem to run out of thoughts about, so it's nice to have the excuse to maybe get some more of them out there. Oh, and yes, OOO using the Cheetah Medal to tenderize a Yummy IS a hilarious visual. It's embarrassing to admit, but that was probably the main thing I remembered from the episode the first time around. In case it wasn't clear enough what I mean when I always say I took this show for granted...
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11-03-2020, 12:37 PM | #16146 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Kamen Rider OOO Episode 5
This show's seriously got to stop giving me a billion things to talk about. Like, something I distinctly remember from when I first watched it is that the 'Last time on OOO, these three things happened!' section didn't actually cover everything that happened in just three broad statements, and I think that's a real testament to just how much OOO is able to have occur in one episode yet still feel completely balanced. Like, let's talk formulas and structures for a sec. Usually in a show like this, ESPECIALLY in a Toku show; where you have a particular group of main villains you'd usually give each their own focus episode near the start of the show to really get viewers accustomed to them and start fleshing them out for later. It's standard but it works and plenty of great shows build on that. So, ostensibly this episode is Mezool's; a personal favourite among the Greeed for me for reasons that unfold later. But despite this being her Yummy, her getting a big fight and grand entrance to Eiji in, you've also got Kazari manipulating things behind the scenes after he took the stage last episode, and then almost the entire back third is an introduction to and fight with Uva! And the best part is that in comparison to that previously-stated formula, it all feels so natural. Thing A leads into thing B while thing C naturally spun-off from the others; it's all very much within their nature, you see the Greeed tying each other around their claws and backstabbing each other whenever they can for their own benefit. It is wonderful villain stuff, and once again their new hideout, disguises, and discussion in the dark is so very VERY Grongi in a way I simply love. But that's not the only thing that's really broken out of here, because his is hardly a Greeed-centric episode -- aside from Mezool's introduction and Uva's fight, you've also got the A-plot of a rich girl spending so much every day; you've got Hina's lingering conflicts; Ankh clashing with Kougami -- and again, all of it is so well balanced. All of these elements get the exact time they need to shine, no more no less; giving you just enough of the picture to feel satisfied while still getting you excited for what's coming up next. Kougami's deal is only truly established at the beginning but throughout you see Ankh trying to fight back against him until eventually he has to fall back on his tech; there's enough cutaways to the rich girl to get her story; Hina's conflict is interwoven with hers... and I really like how I can't really fit any of this into a three-act structure or anything else, yet all of it just works. Something I really enjoy seeing is when people used to working on the genre and know it inside-out are able to play around with it and not stick to the rules so much -- every decision here feels deliberate and like there's true intent behind every little detail. Couple more fun points? Once again, we see Eiji's hidden cunning at work -- Ankh tries to stomp off to trick Eiji into thinking he doesn't know where the Yummy is in order to stockpile more medals... but despite how dumb he looks, Eiji tricks him right back with a facade of helplessness because he knows right away where Ankh was looking. In what would usually be a decent ploy to draw the episode out, this is a great bit of genre-savviness that still feels fresh all these years later and adds more personality to Eiji than you'd think. It's also very subtly displayed in the opening of the episode, too -- the whole time you think he's not listening to the conversation between Kougami and Ankh, that he's obliviousness; but no, he clearly heard every word and is considering him despite how goofy he's acting. Oh, and then the Uva fight scene goes and has a big bike scene! In Kamen Rider! Imagine! Bikes! In Kamen Rider! What a concept! I'd be tempted to mark that off as another Kuuga-ism if OOO's immediate predecessor wasn't just as obsessed with making great bike scenes, but something that adds to it is that Ankh's riding too. It's something kind of fun about the Ridevendors; that they're not relegated to just a Rider's equipment and you see a lot of characters using them throughout the show. And just to top it off... boom. Eiji and Ankh stole more medals for their first full set. I don't remember if every episode had a change to the medal count, but it's starting to feel like that was the case! Kamen Rider Ghost Episode 1 This is one of the best first episodes Kamen Rider has ever had and you won't convince me otherwise. Not that Kamen Rider is bad at first episodes or anything -- most seasons I can think of aside from Zi-O do a phenomenal job and really stick with me; and even for seasons like 555 where I didn't enjoy it, I can still appreciate how good of a first episode that was at nailing the tone right off the bat. But Ghost's, to me, is very special in how much it's able to establish and how well it's able to establish that. I just talked in this post about OOO being a master of balancing a thousand things at once and this truly feels like it comes close -- Akari and Onari, even if you might find them a bit annoying (I have things to say about Akari later), are already very well-realised characters with a lot of personality from the second they open their mouths. They're very loud, very passionate; you can easily see what's going to be a big source of conflict for this season yet at the same time their love for Takeru rises above all of that. It's not like they're smothering him, but there's a real subtle natural element to the bond they have with Takeru that makes it feel real and that there's enough there to get them without fleshing out the details just yet. Talking of which, Takeru has a hell of a lot more self-esteem issues than I remember! Like. Oh good god we need to get this lad some therapy ASAP, though I guess a season of Kamen Riding will have to do for working out his feelings? There's a very relatable lack of confidence in everything he does and how he feels he's living up to his father that you might as well name him Rodimus and call it a day, and that seriously helps with all the 'believe in yourself' stuff later on. Usually that'd be pretty stock shonen/toku stuff, the kind of thing you tick off on your Sentai Bingo Card; but here it feels like there's a lot more legitimacy to it in both how he talks and his body language. I don't know why I didn't pick up on it the first time around but there's so much character to Takeru right off the bat. Like, hell, he lives shut away in a basement! To quickly shift gears, actually? Love Tenkuji Temple. The set design alone is drop-dead gorgeous, and the way the camera follows Akari running through it near the start gives such a great continuity of location to the place that you immediately map out the place in your head. Is that just me? Because despite how big the place is I straightaway know how all the main areas connect and am so ready to see it for 50 episodes. Pretty great parallel to how well the characters are set up, in fact! So that's why I actually did kinda feel something when the main character dies at the 10-minute mark. I don't think I truly appreciated how much of a way this is to start off your children's show about funny ghost shenanigans and learning all about Beethoven and Himiko? Like just over a year from now parents are writing complaints to Toei about having to explain the concept of death to their kids on Christmas because Takahashi decided to kill the funny bike gamer man, but Fukuda's out here like. Nah. 10 minutes. That's all you get bud. It's kind of amazing and creates a fantastic hook within so little time, especially with the time limit! The remainder of the episode is mostly a fight scene, but it's a fight scene riddled with wonderful and characterful choreography. Something I did have a complaint with in the later stages of the Heisei Era was how bad the fight choreography got; I adore Build and I liked Zi-O, but neither of these had me enjoying the fight scenes much because it was either a very simple repeated one-two punch or it was full of special effects; scenes like RabbitRabbit and Zi-O II's debuts were truly saved by the emotion behind it all. I don't know why this was, I assume maybe it was because Taikawa was probably getting a bit tired by that point... but in Ghost he's showing his stuff! Ghost has a very distinct style of fighting compared to any Kamen Rider we've seen before, with very intentional strikes and punches clearly derived from Takeru's background and training at the temple. This early on it's not quite perfected, but that's because Takeru isn't either -- he's clearly a novice at this with all his bumbling while trying to float around, getting hit back and forth, leaving himself open. Ghost's fight scenes are very very rich with great action and it's something I'm looking forward to! There's a few complaints I have; particularly Akari and the fact a new form is used right in the first episode -- I really feel like first episodes should have the Rider's main form and nothing else, unless it's a pre-form like Den-O's Plat Form or... well, Ghost's transients; or you're pulling off something unique like Kuuga. But this was an issue I had with my literal two favourite shows in OOO and Build, and Musashi has a lot more emotional weight behind it than poking a Smash with a Hedgehog hand; so I can more or less excuse it. What is here is exciting enough to have me hooked!
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11-03-2020, 06:10 PM | #16147 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Quote:
Ghost's first episode is one I've always considered a just ~tiny~ bit too packed for its own good, but it's also not exactly lacking in cohesion, or anything like that. And after reading that post and thinking back on the episode, it's funny, because I'm trying to think of what I do find wrong with it, and it's entirely those mechanical plot details. Stuff like Takeru's reaction to getting told to become "Kamen Rider Ghost" being a confused "GO~SUTO?!" as though that's the one of those three words that should be stumping him. Stuff I learned to find more endearing than anything a long time ago, but which admittedly still speaks to a certain lack of polish. And again, I'm thinking about that, and it's just like, is that even a real problem? Is it unforgivably bad pacing and/or editing if Takeru is randomly on a motorcycle he never had before during the transition between the two fight scenes? Heck, for all I know, they were just paying tribute to the Cyclone's non-origin in the OG show. None of the nitpicks I can think of have all that much to do with the true meat of the episode's story, which, despite being so busy, still cleverly establishes everything to the point that even the arguably unnecessary debut of Musashi Damashii is set up in Takeru's very first scene, and built upon throughout the episode. And also, that fight scene is super uplifting and great! So yeah, maybe this is up there with heavy hitters like the Kuuga premiere in its own way. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that. I mean, I say I have my issues with it, but it's not like I didn't already love it to bits anyway. Good on you for picking up on Takeru's self-esteem issues and sloppy fighting style early on, by the way. The huge amount of growth he gets on both those fronts is a huge part of why I find him to be a legitimately great protagonist, so it'll be interesting to see your reactions to even just some of these early episodes going forward. I mean, you mention the good choreography in the fights, and now I'm just itching for a chance to talk about how intense some of Ghost's fights with a certain blue rival character get. Or just the first arc in general. Really love that first arc. And the ones after it... ...I really like this show.
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11-03-2020, 06:31 PM | #16148 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,726
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Quote:
This is one of the best first episodes Kamen Rider has ever had and you won't convince me otherwise. Not that Kamen Rider is bad at first episodes or anything -- most seasons I can think of aside from Zi-O do a phenomenal job and really stick with me; and even for seasons like 555 where I didn't enjoy it, I can still appreciate how good of a first episode that was at nailing the tone right off the bat. But Ghost's, to me, is very special in how much it's able to establish and how well it's able to establish that. I just talked in this post about OOO being a master of balancing a thousand things at once and this truly feels like it comes close -- Akari and Onari, even if you might find them a bit annoying (I have things to say about Akari later), are already very well-realised characters with a lot of personality from the second they open their mouths. They're very loud, very passionate; you can easily see what's going to be a big source of conflict for this season yet at the same time their love for Takeru rises above all of that. It's not like they're smothering him, but there's a real subtle natural element to the bond they have with Takeru that makes it feel real and that there's enough there to get them without fleshing out the details just yet. Talking of which, Takeru has a hell of a lot more self-esteem issues than I remember! Like. Oh good god we need to get this lad some therapy ASAP, though I guess a season of Kamen Riding will have to do for working out his feelings? There's a very relatable lack of confidence in everything he does and how he feels he's living up to his father that you might as well name him Rodimus and call it a day, and that seriously helps with all the 'believe in yourself' stuff later on. Usually that'd be pretty stock shonen/toku stuff, the kind of thing you tick off on your Sentai Bingo Card; but here it feels like there's a lot more legitimacy to it in both how he talks and his body language. I don't know why I didn't pick up on it the first time around but there's so much character to Takeru right off the bat. Like, hell, he lives shut away in a basement! To quickly shift gears, actually? Love Tenkuji Temple. The set design alone is drop-dead gorgeous, and the way the camera follows Akari running through it near the start gives such a great continuity of location to the place that you immediately map out the place in your head. Is that just me? Because despite how big the place is I straightaway know how all the main areas connect and am so ready to see it for 50 episodes. Pretty great parallel to how well the characters are set up, in fact! So that's why I actually did kinda feel something when the main character dies at the 10-minute mark. I don't think I truly appreciated how much of a way this is to start off your children's show about funny ghost shenanigans and learning all about Beethoven and Himiko? Like just over a year from now parents are writing complaints to Toei about having to explain the concept of death to their kids on Christmas because Takahashi decided to kill the funny bike gamer man, but Fukuda's out here like. Nah. 10 minutes. That's all you get bud. It's kind of amazing and creates a fantastic hook within so little time, especially with the time limit! The remainder of the episode is mostly a fight scene, but it's a fight scene riddled with wonderful and characterful choreography. Something I did have a complaint with in the later stages of the Heisei Era was how bad the fight choreography got; I adore Build and I liked Zi-O, but neither of these had me enjoying the fight scenes much because it was either a very simple repeated one-two punch or it was full of special effects; scenes like RabbitRabbit and Zi-O II's debuts were truly saved by the emotion behind it all. I don't know why this was, I assume maybe it was because Taikawa was probably getting a bit tired by that point... but in Ghost he's showing his stuff! Ghost has a very distinct style of fighting compared to any Kamen Rider we've seen before, with very intentional strikes and punches clearly derived from Takeru's background and training at the temple. This early on it's not quite perfected, but that's because Takeru isn't either -- he's clearly a novice at this with all his bumbling while trying to float around, getting hit back and forth, leaving himself open. Ghost's fight scenes are very very rich with great action and it's something I'm looking forward to! There's a few complaints I have; particularly Akari and the fact a new form is used right in the first episode -- I really feel like first episodes should have the Rider's main form and nothing else, unless it's a pre-form like Den-O's Plat Form or... well, Ghost's transients; or you're pulling off something unique like Kuuga. But this was an issue I had with my literal two favourite shows in OOO and Build, and Musashi has a lot more emotional weight behind it than poking a Smash with a Hedgehog hand; so I can more or less excuse it. What is here is exciting enough to have me hooked!
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11-03-2020, 07:01 PM | #16149 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
Amazing. One sentence into one episode of Ghost and you're already being more glowingly positive about something than even I am. You know Christmas isn't for another month, right?
Ghost's first episode is one I've always considered a just ~tiny~ bit too packed for its own good, but it's also not exactly lacking in cohesion, or anything like that. And after reading that post and thinking back on the episode, it's funny, because I'm trying to think of what I do find wrong with it, and it's entirely those mechanical plot details. Stuff like Takeru's reaction to getting told to become "Kamen Rider Ghost" being a confused "GO~SUTO?!" as though that's the one of those three words that should be stumping him. Stuff I learned to find more endearing than anything a long time ago, but which admittedly still speaks to a certain lack of polish. And again, I'm thinking about that, and it's just like, is that even a real problem? Is it unforgivably bad pacing and/or editing if Takeru is randomly on a motorcycle he never had before during the transition between the two fight scenes? Heck, for all I know, they were just paying tribute to the Cyclone's non-origin in the OG show. None of the nitpicks I can think of have all that much to do with the true meat of the episode's story, which, despite being so busy, still cleverly establishes everything to the point that even the arguably unnecessary debut of Musashi Damashii is set up in Takeru's very first scene, and built upon throughout the episode. And also, that fight scene is super uplifting and great! So yeah, maybe this is up there with heavy hitters like the Kuuga premiere in its own way. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that. I mean, I say I have my issues with it, but it's not like I didn't already love it to bits anyway. Good on you for picking up on Takeru's self-esteem issues and sloppy fighting style early on, by the way. The huge amount of growth he gets on both those fronts is a huge part of why I find him to be a legitimately great protagonist, so it'll be interesting to see your reactions to even just some of these early episodes going forward. I mean, you mention the good choreography in the fights, and now I'm just itching for a chance to talk about how intense some of Ghost's fights with a certain blue rival character get. Or just the first arc in general. Really love that first arc. And the ones after it... ...I really like this show. It -did- kinda bother me that he was reacting to 'Ghost' out of 'Kamen Rider Ghost', though I figured he just doesn't know a lot of English. And the motorbike? ... eh, he probably just had one? Not an awfully uncommon thing for something to have!
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11-03-2020, 07:51 PM | #16150 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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This would be a more credible explanation if everyone in the show including Takeru himself wasn't already consistently referring to ghosts using the English word almost exclusively right out of the gate.
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