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09-06-2023, 01:48 PM | #31 |
Stronger Than You
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: nyet
Posts: 25,332
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Fourze wasn't a failure, but most people have less than stellar memories of it thanks to how character traits were amped up to 11 on the second half of the series. With Gentaro and Yuki basically going from quirky to way too over the top as the show progressed.
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09-06-2023, 04:45 PM | #32 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I'll be honest, I've been in this fandom for a decade and never seen any real hate for Fourze? Compared to Wizard, Ghost, even Zero-One, it seemed accepted at worst? Not sure where "Fourze was a FAILURE!" is coming from tbh.
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09-07-2023, 12:59 AM | #33 |
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Anyway, back to the topic itself, there are plenty of reasons why viewers might like Gentaro but not like Hotaro. Even based on the first episode, though both are loud weird school kids, Gentaro has a purpose that he immediately voices. Hotaro doesn't have that, which the show also almost immediately communicates in the most direct way possible. Also, Hotaro receives a belt proving that he is worthy according to all the classic precepts of fairy tales. At the same time, Gentaro actually takes the belt from Kengo, making him a brazen protagonist and effectively putting him on the same level as Tendo. So, Gentaro may be a loser, but cool in his own way, and Hotaro is a confused teenager, with curiosity and a good heart. And yes, don't forget about looks. People judge differently who they like and who they don't. Many things are forgiven to one, many things cling to others. |
09-07-2023, 01:30 PM | #34 |
Zenryoku Zenkai!
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 376
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Hmmmm....
One of my initial reactions to this episode was "this show isn't going to be for everyone", and looking through here as well as elsewhere online, i think maybe that was a correct assessment lol This show certainly doesn't have as big, and expectation-defying, of a first episode as Geats. Certainly, I could see a lot of people viewing this show as a downgrade from a show like Geats. Before I state what I thought of the episode myself, I feel I should get some of my biases out in the open... Personally I'm quite mixed on Keiichi Hasegawa as a writer, he's written numerous things I've enjoyed greatly but he's definitely delivered some shows and episodes I haven't vibed with at all... I believe he has a lot of potential as head writer, but going into this show I knew that for me personally the vibe was most likely going to be a “love it or hate it” situation Now, while I really enjoyed Geats, I found it oddly difficult to watch each week, something about it wasn't strongly drawing me in, and watching it started to feel a bit like a chore, despite really enjoying a lot of the content and characters... And tbh, I didn't like Revice at all the year before, it was actually the first rider show I've ever stopped watching mid season solely bc I didn't like it, with no intent of going back to finish it... And while Saber holds a special place in my heart it was a very messy show... All this is to put into context how I was feeling ahead of Gotchard. (Edit: Genuinely no shade to anyone who more strongly likes any of the listed shows, they all have their own strong points) I desperately wanted Gotchard to be a show I would enjoy watching every week, and after Revice and Geats there were three main things I wanted from this show: 1. Fun! Something (that at least begins) more light hearted 2. Something that feels like "Kamen Rider" (a very subjective point) 3. I needed to be left with a feeling of “I can’t wait to see more!” So those were the things I was looking for going into Gotchard... And I have to say... 10s across the board! Genuinely this show was exactly what I wanted it to be lol When the show’s premise and staff was first initially revealed a thought I genuinely had was “I want this show to feel like Fourze and Ghost, with a dash of Wizard and Saber”, which uh, probably not a lot of other people would want, but that’s how I felt, and it’s what I feel like I got! I really cannot overstate how much this episode exactly matched my expectations, if not surpassing them on a few levels While I could see people finding this episode generic, I found it to be extremely "rider like" in a way i haven't felt a lot of other recent shows to be, and i was just kinda vibing with that lol... I do think it has some of it's own unique and fun ideas too tho! I really loved the general set-up of this episode, and it being a dedicated “origin” episode. I’m glad the bike, alchemy school, valvarad, and extended cast were not all crammed into this episode, very much appreciate that. I like what this episode chose to focus on, and I don’t think I could point to a single scene that I didn’t enjoy in the entire episode. Oh also, I love Hotarou naming his own belt and rider form too! Super fun! Don't think we've seen something like that in a while... I can already see some foreshadowing and set up being carefully placed into the show, and I’m very curious to see how the story and characters pan out as the series progresses I finished this episode and immediately wanted to watch more, which I feel like I haven’t felt (for rider) in a couple years so I’m thoroughly happy! Maybe I’ll rewatch the episode and do a point by point summary of everything I liked about the episode lol Last edited by TheJaz; 09-07-2023 at 01:34 PM.. |
09-08-2023, 06:44 PM | #35 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,581
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And true love? In any case, maybe I misunderstood. Let's write it down in English with too harsh expressions. In any case, I still believe that it is impossible to say that Fourze is directly loved by everyone. And the fact that everyone likes Gentaro all the more.
Anyway, back to the topic itself, there are plenty of reasons why viewers might like Gentaro but not like Hotaro. Even based on the first episode, though both are loud weird school kids, Gentaro has a purpose that he immediately voices. Hotaro doesn't have that, which the show also almost immediately communicates in the most direct way possible. Also, Hotaro receives a belt proving that he is worthy according to all the classic precepts of fairy tales. At the same time, Gentaro actually takes the belt from Kengo, making him a brazen protagonist and effectively putting him on the same level as Tendo. So, Gentaro may be a loser, but cool in his own way, and Hotaro is a confused teenager, with curiosity and a good heart. And yes, don't forget about looks. People judge differently who they like and who they don't. Many things are forgiven to one, many things cling to others. That pomp.
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09-09-2023, 06:46 AM | #36 |
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A nerd doesn't have to be limited to having general knowledge though. Like Sougo was a history nerd, but sucked at everything else. The way Houtarou enjoys experimenting with bento flavors and got the general idea of what the Renaissance was right, in how it was a very romantic era of dreamchasers, gives me the feeling that he can also be a nerd in a savant way, as well as the fact that his best friend is Kajiki, who is definitely a nerd. Even if some people complain about Houtarou's generic appearance, I'll argue that he still has better fashion sense than Ikki.
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I think it's possible to be both professional and amicable, like Rintarou, who was one of the most caring members of that group. The way Rinne coldly said something like, "besides, I don't even know you", seemed kind of uncalled for, like she was deliberately pushing Houtarou away instead of welcoming the opportunity to make a new friend with someone who's literally in the same class as her. But I guess it's too early to judge her yet without understanding the reasons for her behavior.
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Yes, me too, but still, Fourze is not some kind of ideal standard or a show that everyone loves. As far as I remember, when we were making charts according to our tastes of the rider shows, nobody named neither Fourze nor Gentaro their favorite show / rider. At most, Nadeshiko was mentioned once as a favorite tertiary.
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I desperately wanted Gotchard to be a show I would enjoy watching every week, and after Revice and Geats there were three main things I wanted from this show:
1. Fun! Something (that at least begins) more light hearted 2. Something that feels like "Kamen Rider" (a very subjective point)
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). Last edited by DreadBringer; 09-09-2023 at 06:55 AM.. |
09-09-2023, 07:28 AM | #37 |
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Double standard view where anything wrong done by the cast in lighter shows (like what the Taros pull in Den-O) are ignored and swept under the rug only because the villains are far worse (grey and black can exist), while something wrong done in darker shows sticks out far more to people that they're brought up constantly even if it's done by someone kind who hit their limit at certain situation/context and got remorseful, being lumped together with other horrible people only cuz "both have done [x], [x] is bad so everyone who does [x] is bad!".
Last edited by Mesnick; 09-09-2023 at 07:59 AM.. |
11-06-2023, 11:51 AM | #38 |
A jump to the sky..
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,062
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I started watching Toku shows at the time that Fourze was the current show being aired, so I have a bit of fondness for Captain Hairgel and the coming of age in school kind of story. It helped prompt me to go backwards in Rider shows and watch more. Gotchard has that same energy, and I'm okay with that. I think people disliked Fourze for what it was because it was such a drastic 180 after OOO.
The Rider melting pot appears to be Decade>Fourze>Build/Wizard>Ex-Aid with the concepts of Cards>School Age>Form Melding using Science/Alchemy>Alt-Form Rider this time. Other than that, the standard troupes are in play. My only critique is the main character being initially listless which gives me Ghost PTSD flashbacks, but I feel he's picking up way faster than Ghost did or Zi-O.
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11-06-2023, 12:12 PM | #39 |
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My only critique is the main character being initially listless which gives me Ghost PTSD flashbacks, but I feel he's picking up way faster than Ghost did or Zi-O.
Houtarou is clearly not like Takeru in character. Rather, he is the middle ground between Gentaro and Sougo. Although, so far he has not had any serious trials/disappointments/betrayals, so we still need to see how he overcomes difficulties. |
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