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11-13-2020, 10:22 PM | #641 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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KAMEN RIDER HIBIKI - FINAL VOLUME - "A DREAM OF TOMORROW"
"I'm wondering if I've already heard all the songs that'll mean something And I'm wondering if I've already met all the people that'll mean something But I find myself daydreaming of the places where we used to stay We used to brush them away St Kilda, Coolangatta, Bondi Beach and Coogee Bay I like the sound of their names And I wonder if you would wanna go there with me When I'm finished over here If you're not finished with me" -Allo Darlin', "Tallulah" There's an idea in this one that's such a perfect way to end the series that it made me cry. It's about five minutes in, as we're catching up to how the whole cast has kept themselves busy in the year after the Oni suppressed Orochi. Asumu's been training to be a doctor, and he hasn't really spoken to Hibiki. And then, out of nowhere, Hibiki shows up outside the clinic that Asumu is volunteering at. He's all casual to Asumu, super-friendly, like a minute hasn't passed. He puts his arm around Asumu and is about to drag him out to eat, so they can catch up, and Asumu stops him. He's working right now. He can't leave with Hibiki. He's got a life, and it doesn't stop and start on Hibiki's schedule. He's grown up, and his life doesn't revolve around Hibiki. And there's this hurt on Hibiki's face that flashes in an instant, and gets covered by his charming grin. He's like an imaginary friend that a child's outgrown. He had value, was loved, and now he's something to be left behind. Asumu can draw strength from the lessons Hibiki taught him, but it's time for Asumu to live without Hibiki. It's so bittersweet, so perfect. Because that's Hibiki the man and Hibiki the character. This show is over. It's a show that was always about making the subtext text, and what better way to do that than to have Asumu put Hibiki away? To honor their friendship, cherish their time together... but for that time to be over. There is something tragic and beautiful and necessary in that idea. A final lesson for children that, eventually, childhood ends. You will inevitably learn everything you can from these superheroes, and it's okay to let them go. (And then eventually rediscover them as an adult who is willing to dissect stories designed to sell toys to children.) Stories end. We grow up. It's natural. It's okay. It's brave, y'know? To spend the final episode of a Kamen Rider series telling children that eventually they won't need Kamen Riders to show them how to be good people. I really love that, as a final statement from this series. Literally everything else in this episode was an unmitigated failure. Like, the last scene takes us back to a beach that's similar to the iconic one from the first Hibiki story. (I think it's a different one? It's shot super-similar, but I can't imagine Hibiki dragged an unconscious Asumu on a ferry ride just for nostalgia's sake. Although, this episode does a ton of other stupid things, so...) It's a hamfisted way of creating a bookend to Asumu and Hibiki's story, a sentimentality that this episode really doesn't earn. And the speech Asumu gives... I love that Asumu gets the final word, and I love everything he's saying... but then Hibiki's like I'll Be In Your Life Forever and now this episode is about nothing. They had a touching ending, and then they blinked. It's not an ending at all. It's just a final episode. And, god, on that level... So much of the beginning is just poorly-written exposition. Characters are constantly telling each other things they should know by now. (I literally cannot believe that there's a line in the first two minutes where Todoroki has to mention that it's been a year since they stopped Orochi to four people who were all dealing with that problem in the previous year. It's the laziest writing.) No one's really doing anything weird, or interesting. There's nothing with Todoroki and Hinaka's relationship, which is baffling considering how much time their story got in the second phase of this series. Everything's just... whatever. Folks are living their lives, fighting monsters, nbd. And then Hitomi gets kidnapped by a catman and this thing goes jaw-droppingly off the rails. It's the stupidest plot I've maybe ever seen in Kamen Rider. It makes almost zero sense. Hitomi gets plucked out of the clear blue sky by Fancy-Dress Douji and Hime, something that smacks of so much narrative contrivance that it's insulting. She's going to get turned into a new servant, something that they've previously not needed to kidnap people for, and so they dump her in Garren's Tank Of Bad Decisions from Blade, along with tiny eels (?) and then she gets rescued and Kiriya can henshin now and there are fancier-dressed Douji and Hime and Asumu runs into an explosion. It's stupid. It is so stupid. Like, not to call out one thing in that sequence as being dumber than the rest, they're all equally braindead, but Asumu runs to see Hibiki as Hibiki is detonating a monster. Why? Why is he running into an active battle? Why is he shouting out to Hibiki just as Hibiki is letting loose a wave of destructive energy? I mean, the answer is So He Can Wake Up In The Next Scene, which is a lazy-ass answer. It's emblematic of everything wrong in this episode, where stupid things occur so that they can set up the next stupid thing. I always wondered what about the final Hibiki episode could've been so bad that the guy who played Hibiki resented the show for years. (Forever?) Quality-wise, it's a goddamn disaster. If I was the face of this episode, I'd never let them use my face again, either. Story-wise... god, there's that one perfect scene, and then an episode that can't honor it. Disappointing way to end this show.
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11-13-2020, 10:33 PM | #642 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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... yeah?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'd say that about sums it up too. I'm also not too fond of the idea of Asumu becoming a doctor (seems a bit out of nowhere, especially with how he's been going towards things that enrich peoples' lives rather than save them), but I guess I can see it and wouldn't blame anyone else including the showrunners from figuring that's where he'd go. Still weird to me mind. Otherwise yeah this sure is a final episode. I'm sure both Switchblade and Androzani are about to jump in with some Production Fun Facts which will explain a lot so I won't steal their thunder, but needless to say it's not just the content of this episode that left Hibiki's actor so spurned. Though I wouldn't blame him for that either.
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11-13-2020, 10:36 PM | #643 |
Rider of the End
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 636
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Its a shame that for a series like Kamen Rider, such poor writers were chosen for the second half of Hibiki. Like i get the first half wasnt budget friendly, but at least try to keep the writing. if you want to cutback, cutback, not frankstein together a completely new plot and royally demolish what the first half was aiming for. I loved the first half, the nuances and layered storytelling was exceptional, brought a level of humanity and realism to hibiki as people before masked heroes. If i were Shigeki Hosokawa, after this mess, i wouldnt want my name associated with Rider either.
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11-13-2020, 10:43 PM | #644 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I'm also not too fond of the idea of Asumu becoming a doctor (seems a bit out of nowhere, especially with how he's been going towards things that enrich peoples' lives rather than save them), but I guess I can see it and wouldn't blame anyone else including the showrunners from figuring that's where he'd go. Still weird to me mind.
(Also, I wonder if the implication is that spending more time with the chronically-ill Naomi made Asumu want to study medicine?) Quote:
Its a shame that for a series like Kamen Rider, such poor writers were chosen for the second half of Hibiki. Like i get the first half wasnt budget friendly, but at least try to keep the writing. if you want to cutback, cutback, not frankstein together a completely new plot and royally demolish what the first half was aiming for. I loved the first half, the nuances and layered storytelling was exceptional, brought a level of humanity and realism to hibiki as people before masked heroes. If i were Shigeki Hosokawa, after this mess, i wouldnt want my name associated with Rider either.
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11-13-2020, 10:54 PM | #645 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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The more I think about it, I don't really hate that final scene in Episode 48. It's laying out the victory condition for Asumu, the main character of the show. He's telling Hibiki that he doesn't need his approval, but he'd like his support. It's an acknowledgement that Asumu is an adult now, and that he and Hibiki can be peers. It's a very sweet idea, even if I think there are ways it could've been better.
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11-13-2020, 11:03 PM | #646 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,410
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Quote:
Otherwise yeah this sure is a final episode. I'm sure both Switchblade and Androzani are about to jump in with some Production Fun Facts which will explain a lot so I won't steal their thunder, but needless to say it's not just the content of this episode that left Hibiki's actor so spurned. Though I wouldn't blame him for that either.
So the second Hibiki finale... You thought the episode was kind of a mess and that's because it is. At this point, the show's production had gone so far off the rails that they were literally writing the episode while it was filming it. At least, that's the urban legend. My understanding is that it's more a case of they were re-writing it while they were filming. The staff has multiple different ending ideas in play and there was some major waffling back and forth between ideas. The suit that Kiriya wears when he transforms? Not actually made for him. It's a kitbash of the original suit made for Kiriya with parts added from the one that would have been Asumu's. The idea that Asumu was going to end up as an Oni got so far along that they'd even begun making a suit for him. As I always say, I view what happened to this show as a tragedy and this complete clusterfuck of a finale is kind of the perfect note for this era of the show to go out on: a bunch of dumb chaos desperately thrown together by people who had no vision for the show. |
11-13-2020, 11:09 PM | #647 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Also, jesus, if some of this nonsense was due to them realizing that Asumu 1000% should not become an Oni in the final episode, it might've been worth it. I cannot tell you how much angrier I'd've been if that kid got in a costume for the finale.
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11-13-2020, 11:11 PM | #648 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,481
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Quote:
I don't love them swerving from Asumu The Artist to Asumu The Doctor (so much better thematically if he wants to bring smiles!), but I think the episode hedges its bets by having AsuMum wonder out loud if Asumu's really that dedicated to medicine. He's always been an indecisive kid, so I don't think it'd be a huge shock for him to land in a completely different field. The only thing he says definitievely in the finale is that he won't be an Oni. I like to think he got back into a drama club in university, and then pivoted back to entertaining.
(Also, I wonder if the implication is that spending more time with the chronically-ill Naomi made Asumu want to study medicine?)
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11-13-2020, 11:16 PM | #649 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,399
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Speaking of urban legends, anyone know if this detail is true or not?
I recall reading somewhere that when they got Inoue to do the second half, all he had to work with for the longest time was the script of the very first episode. No idea if that's actually true or not, but it'd certainly explain alot of things. Kamen Rider J says hi.
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11-13-2020, 11:23 PM | #650 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I would honestly merely call the finale a mitigated failure, based on how I remember it, at least. Not that those memories are very reliable, because I've barely had a thing to say for like the entire last fifth of this show, which bummed me out a bit. I feel bad whenever I'm not actively contributing to these threads. But I do have thoughts about this episode, and I've gotta do my job as the site's resident contrarian.
Like I mentioned way back at the beginning of the thread, Hibiki was the last Heisei Rider show I ended up watching while playing catch-up after getting into the franchise, and frankly, that very last scene is one I love, and it's always had a special place in my heart. The retooled section of this series, as Die has captured so wonderfully, was uneven, to say the least. Even as someone who maybe didn't totally appreciate everything Hibiki was doing, I could tell a lot of that spark and purpose was gone, and the show was struggling to find new footing. There were things I still enjoyed, but huge swathes of it were failing to really *grab* me. But right at the end there, despite all the other horrible decisions the plotting makes, I thought they nailed the final statement on Hibiki as well as Takatera's crew possibly could have, and people who have seen me get in on disowing this part of the show with Switchblade should understand I don't say that causally. Hibiki telling Asumu being an Oni isn't the only way to be his apprentice, that is the absolute core of what the series was about to me. I've always been staunchly against the idea of Asumu becoming one, because it would horribly undermine the entire point of his role as an audience surrogate. Apparently the original crew was open to going either way depending on where the story ended up naturally leading them, but I just can't imagine them landing anywhere else. Die talks about how Asumu grew up by leaving Hibiki behind, but what I'd add is that the joke "rediscovering your heroes as an adult" bit is arguably part of the text of the episode. I see that final scene as basically saying that Asumu's decision to try and essentially throw Hibiki away was no more the answer than blindly mimicking him was. It's merely another step in the journey, and that the real endpoint is realizing it's okay to keep carrying Hibiki in his heart, along with all the lessons he learned from him, because it really did mean something. It's... I'm getting rambly and I don't think I'm doing a great job describing it, but it's the perfect note for the show to end on, in my opinion. It's a rough ride getting there, but I forgot about all the stupid monster stuff in this one eventually. I never, ever forgot seeing that chat between Hibiki and Asumu with the sun on the horizon with Shounen Yo playing, and finally feeling like I was watching Hibiki again. Plus, I learned in recent years the title of this one is derived from Asumu's name the same way the first was Hibiki's, and that really appeals to my love of good episode titles AND bookends. Again, hard to imagine that part being any better.
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