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View Poll Results: Redemption Ark. When you love it? | |||
Always. I want the main hero/heroes to team up with the villains of the first quarter at the end. | 3 | 15.00% | |
I love it when it's an unexpected twist. | 0 | 0% | |
When I can trace how the character came to this. | 10 | 50.00% | |
When a character does something that shows they have changed. | 5 | 25.00% | |
Never. I love stability. | 2 | 10.00% | |
Voters: 20. This poll is closed |
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09-13-2023, 01:16 PM | #31 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,186
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Then there is still Akaishi, who believed that submitting to Giff was the only way to save humanity. Moreover, his position is even more justified, because it has worked for centuries.
By the way, even if it?s off topic: it seemed to me that all Girori?s chatter about saving the world was empty chatter to lure more heroic guys into the show. That is, Hotaro or Eiji would most likely refuse to participate in the DGP because they have nothing to write on a piece of paper for wishes, but they would definitely take part in saving the world. However, many viewers, and the show itself, judging by the final episodes, take his words at face value. Maybe it's a cultural difference, but it doesn't work for me.How can one admire the heroism of the riders if they are essentially playing in the sandbox he created? How can you call them ?saviors of the world? if the main threat to this world is your game? That is, by allowing Dapan to participate, Girori literally personally added the option of the apocalypse to the list of options for the final of the DGP. So for me, his speeches about the heroism of the riders are the same as admiration for animals from a poacher.
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09-13-2023, 01:24 PM | #32 |
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I won't comment on Akaishi for I haven't seen Revice meaning I cannot judge it fairly at all but the Jamato are seperate from the DGP. Like, after the DGP gets dissolved, they still exist and have potential for evil. That's all Girori needs to want the typical virtuous heroes in his game
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09-13-2023, 01:42 PM | #33 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,186
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They still aren't one and the same nor does that contradict the way Girori prefers his show to go, he cannot control the contestents, trying to meddle with Geats for his winstreak caused what, exactly?
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09-13-2023, 02:21 PM | #34 |
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Maybe it makes some sense, but to me it's like a Shocker trooper wearing an "I love Kamen Riders" T-shirt. Just not that funny. Also no, he can control the participants. One of the episodes literally ended with the rule: “The participants are chosen by the DGP Gamemaster.” Ace, with his desire to play to death, ensured his constant participation and thereby partially escaped Girori's control. Maybe it is the excessive freedom of the permanent champion that is the reason for the negative attitude, and not his personality? And yes, Girori told Keiwa that he wants his wish to come true, but the reason may be the same increase in interest in the show. So many former players will return and can be re-recruited, ratings will obviously jump. Last edited by Mesnick; 09-13-2023 at 02:31 PM.. |
09-13-2023, 02:51 PM | #35 |
Henshin Heaven
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Inside a Hyper Battle Video, help.
Posts: 1,243
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I was trying to think about some of my favorite redemption arcs I've seen in tokusatsu and you know which two came to mind most readily for ones I liked? Alain in Ghost. Alain's is something I think even Ghost dislikers such as myself can find a lot to enjoy in, even if he gets a lot less focus later on. I think what makes Alain so striking is how believable his initial callousness is due to his background and also his slow process of coming around. I'm sure there are more I liked but that one really stuck with me!
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09-14-2023, 12:30 AM | #36 |
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I was trying to think about some of my favorite redemption arcs I've seen in tokusatsu and you know which two came to mind most readily for ones I liked? Alain in Ghost. Alain's is something I think even Ghost dislikers such as myself can find a lot to enjoy in, even if he gets a lot less focus later on. I think what makes Alain so striking is how believable his initial callousness is due to his background and also his slow process of coming around. I'm sure there are more I liked but that one really stuck with me!
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09-14-2023, 03:03 AM | #37 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,186
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Quote:
Maybe it makes some sense, but to me it's like a Shocker trooper wearing an "I love Kamen Riders" T-shirt. Just not that funny.
Also no, he can control the participants. One of the episodes literally ended with the rule: ?The participants are chosen by the DGP Gamemaster.? Ace, with his desire to play to death, ensured his constant participation and thereby partially escaped Girori's control. Maybe it is the excessive freedom of the permanent champion that is the reason for the negative attitude, and not his personality? And yes, Girori told Keiwa that he wants his wish to come true, but the reason may be the same increase in interest in the show. So many former players will return and can be re-recruited, ratings will obviously jump.
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09-14-2023, 08:16 PM | #38 |
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I agree that what Michinaga did was undeniably bad, the guy himself agrees that he's a hypocrite in that regard but that's part of why he's so interesting to me, he does a lot of bad shit to achieve his goal but it doesn't seem like he gets any enjoyment out of it outside of wanting to wipe Ace's smug smile off his face as he could not beat him, Michinaga did what he felt was needed even though he clearly got quite a few people killed because of his actions, I think the reason he feels particularly bad about getting Sara killed because by then, he found out there was another way beyond having like, a large scale trolley problem. Personally, I would have added a scene of Michinaga breaking down after realizing just how much he screwed up and added to people's suffering just because he hadn't realized sooner that another way was possible but I'm also a sucker for "My god, what have I done?" Shit being done right lol. Fantastic writeup, I could not have written that better myself
Otherwise, my focus here was on the cynical worldview itself - of which said view is often viewed as being sensible, "logical", and realistic, when it can be just the cynical people being so lazy and faithless to be so used to acting a certain way, never considered another option, or never even thought another option was possible - which can mean, it's only them rationalizing their actions or proving they?re in the right (this one's just egotistic). Cynicism is a dogmatic and narrow-minded view that leans on negative bias, Michi is too lazy to consider another option and just goes for the easiest solutions while refusing to have his belief challenged for most of the series (while he acknowledged his hypocrisy, he still deflects blames thrown on him if others point it out). Quote:
Girori wanted Kamen Riders to be virtuous heroes and was upset by Geats not fitting his vision of an ideal Kamen Rider while also constantly winning which risked making his show boring, meaning he saw Geats as a threat to his business. These examples aren't very comparable
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I won't comment on Akaishi for I haven't seen Revice meaning I cannot judge it fairly at all but the Jamato are seperate from the DGP. Like, after the DGP gets dissolved, they still exist and have potential for evil. That's all Girori needs to want the typical virtuous heroes in his game
Do you actually believe in DGP's bogus claims of saving the world (and Girori claiming that he'd want to contribute for world peace and that he's like Mamoru Shima or Wakabayashi or such)? Just because Archimedel has his own agendas and wants/plans to rebel, doesn't mean that Archimedel wasn't a part of the DGP, DGP obviously should have someone in charge of developing them. You can create Jamatos outside of the DGP if you know how... but doesn't mean that it's always separate from DGP like Humagears to ZAIA. Girori calls Archimedel to send Jamatos after people, then claims that the Jamato has invaded. He doesn't want to stop the Jamatos, he only wants to moderate them so that they won't be too strong to beat the Riders. He wants a display of the Riders' heroism by creating war and having the public get attacked by Jamatos. For the entertainment of the audiences (who like heroism), like many other future people, just that he's the type to want to give "good ending" for the audience, but he still treats this world and real people as plaything too. At the end by siding with Ace he also talks about the entertainment for the audience who wants the DGP back to its roots as Riders beating bad guys rather than the sadist show Suel is turning it into - though by then he assigns the DGP as the bad guys to be beaten. The reason he wants to eliminate Ace is, to protect the DGP's secrets. Yes... the secret that the DGP creates Jamatos or that they rob people's lives and happiness to grant wishes and keep the game going (by granting more winners' wishes). Claiming Ace's wish as frivolous is his tactics to manipulate Keiwa into eliminating Ace. Is Girori another one that got people justifying him since Chirami was appointed as GM? And only because of his pretty words of wanting to contribute for world peace or being right about something. Like above, I know that people'd like to paint villains as in the right/doing nothing wrong due as people commonly take their words at face value, or if but nah, but I'm not buying the pretty words they way, would be a hot take to the fandom but I'm exposing their insincerity. Quote:
Motive is important. I know you don't put much stake in tragic backstories, but I believe they can be used to gain insight in to a person's actions and how to potentially redeem them. So, while Gai and Mitsuzane both have a ridiculously long list of crimes, I can sympathize with Gai due to seeing how he ended up like that and the moral he needed to learn from his past so that he could turn his life around. He felt pressured to live up to his father's impossible 1000% expectations and didn't realize how much he lost touch with his morality until it was too late. Now, Mitsuzane's motive, on the other hand, is Mai. He may not be the only yandere in the franchise, but even Kusaka (Happy Kaixa Day!) would draw the line at sacrificing humanity since he canonically only ever kills Orphenochs.
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I'd refer to Kuroto as an antivillain and Masamune as a villain. While Kuroto does engage in petty behavior, like infecting Emu for sending fanmail, he was serious about saving Sakurako and helped to create the cure to revive the Bugster victims, albeit using means that were too extreme and not without consequence, as Kiriya points out that Jungo's suicide is something that Kuroto cannot undo. Masamune is much more depraved though, as he showed no remorse for deleting Saki's data as punishment and probably only sided with Kiriya out of spite for his son.
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). Last edited by DreadBringer; 09-14-2023 at 09:19 PM.. |
09-15-2023, 12:28 AM | #39 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,186
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Quote:
Do people actually forget that, the DGP is the one that created the Jamatos? Do you actually believe in DGP's bogus claims of saving the world (and Girori claiming that he'd want to contribute for world peace and that he's like Mamoru Shima or Wakabayashi or such)? Just because Archimedel has his own agendas and wants/plans to rebel, doesn't mean that Archimedel wasn't a part of the DGP, DGP obviously should have someone in charge of developing them. You can create Jamatos outside of the DGP if you know how... but doesn't mean that it's always separate from DGP like Humagears to ZAIA. Girori calls Archimedel to send Jamatos after people, then claims that the Jamato has invaded. He doesn't want to stop the Jamatos, he only wants to moderate them so that they won't be too strong to beat the Riders. He wants a display of the Riders' heroism by creating war and having the public get attacked by Jamatos. For the entertainment of the audiences (who like heroism), like many other future people, just that he's the type to want to give "good ending" for the audience, but he still treats this world and real people as plaything too. At the end by siding with Ace he also talks about the entertainment for the audience who wants the DGP back to its roots as Riders beating bad guys rather than the sadist show Suel is turning it into - though by then he assigns the DGP as the bad guys to be beaten. The reason he wants to eliminate Ace is, to protect the DGP's secrets. Yes... the secret that the DGP creates Jamatos or that they rob people's lives and happiness to grant wishes and keep the game going (by granting more winners' wishes). Claiming Ace's wish as frivolous is his tactics to manipulate Keiwa into eliminating Ace. Is Girori another one that got people justifying him since Chirami was appointed as GM? And only because of his pretty words of wanting to contribute for world peace or being right about something. Like above, I know that people'd like to paint villains as in the right/doing nothing wrong due as people commonly take their words at face value, or if but nah, but I'm not buying the pretty words they way, would be a hot take to the fandom but I'm exposing their insincerity. Nah I get you, it's important to read between the lines and there's much more to villains than what they say, I still live in denial about a villain like this in one of my favourite franchises and refuse to believe anything but "He made it all up to sound righteous" lmao
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09-15-2023, 12:40 AM | #40 |
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I can only speak for myself but the recently announced V Cinema having been described as the heroes 'discovering the secrets of the Jyamato' crossed my wires, again, my bad, it's been almost a year since some of these things so I guess it slipped my mind more than I realized with all I've had going on
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