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04-26-2016, 09:13 AM | #1 |
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Hello there!
I'm so sorry this isn't as short as I'd like it to be, however I do feel this information is necessary for my question to really make sense. Also enjoy an accidental mini-review of Black. I'm fairly new to the Rider universe, but I've got two (Heisei) series' down and am following both of the current series'. I'm absolutely in love, and have foreseen a lot of Kamen rider in my future. So, before I got in too deep (Too late, by the way) I wanted to check out some of the series' earlier adventures and explore the Showa Era. I'm not quite sure how I ended up choosing Black, but I did. Of course '71 was my first choice because... I mean it's the first one, that seems like a good place to go aha. But, since it has no complete sub release, I eventually made my way to Black. So, Black was immediately a culture shock coming from deep in the Heisei Era, and it continued to be for the duration. I already knew about the Showa Riders not having any form changes or power-ups like the Heisei Riders, so it didn't really surprise me in that regard. What mostly stuck out was the lack of a cast, and the large, LARGE amount of pointless episodes. I was driven along for awhile just because of how different it is, but about halfway in, the plot's taken about two steps forward and I was really ready to drop it because... there didn't seem to be a point. I ended up trudging through the rest since I was already that far because... I dunno. I guess I just wanted to say I did it. But it is NOT worth it. So, to both kind of illustrate my point and mainly to help future viewers, I've compiled an abridged version of Kamen Rider Black with only the episodes relevant to the plot. Kamen Rider Black Abridged is as follows: 01, 02, 12, 17*, 18, 22, 34-36, 38*, 45-51 17*: Episode irrelevant, but a scene from it plays in a very small flashback in a later relevant episode. If you don't mind that, it's skippable. 38*: Episode irrelevant, but two characters appear in this episode who are present in later relevant episodes. However, these characters themselves are completely irrelevant to the series. They literally actually never once say or do anything. Not even in this episode. They mostly just stand in the background of scenes. So, if you're okay with never knowing their names and them just sort of popping up, this episode is skippable. (I'd put them here in a spoiler tag for those who want to skip, but I don't see one so... I'm sorry. You can PM me or something and I'll tell you.) 52*: The last episode of the series is actually just an episode-long commercial for Black RX with a demo reel of all of the previous Riders in it (Because they all appear in Black RX apparently). So I imagine this episode is just kinda for Showa (Or at the time, Kamen Rider in general) superfans. That's 14 episodes (Minus the asterisked episodes) out of a 52 episode series that matter to the plot. Every other episode is a self-contained story about Kotaro saving a one-off character and defeating a mutant that changes nothing in the world and advances the story in no way. You can skip 38 episodes in this series and miss absolutely nothing, and it's honestly a lot better off for it. I really think that just watching the abridged version makes for an alright show. But the full-length series... is an insane grind in spots if you're looking for plot advancement. So if you're reading this and you haven't seen Black, I highly, HIGHLY recommend watching the abridged version. If you're really interested in all of the other episodes, save them for a rainy day or when you've run out of Rider content and are really desperate. I don't want to come off negative or anything, I don't even dislike interesting padding now and then. I mean it's soft and comfy. But Kamen Rider Black is 73% filler. I'm not saying some of them aren't interesting or good or worth it, but there's SO MANY. And I think which particular ones are enjoyable are up to you to decide. I don't even think the format is inherently bad, but to support it you'd need a nice cast of characters to play off of each other and/or Rider power-ups to at least convey a sense of progression in that regard even though the story didn't move forward. This is in stark contrast to Black, where the entirety of the returning cast for over half of the series is... Kotaro. Kyoko and Katsumi are generally walking plot devices with function-only dialogue, as are the early villains. So every episode that doesn't farther the plot is just... uninteresting unless you can get into the plight of whatever side character happens to be the star of this edition of The Misadventures of Minami Kotaro. Alright, I'm sorry this is so long and I didn't mean for this to be a mini-review of Black, but I really think this information is relevant. So when I was around halfway through and about to drop it, and Googling whether the series ever went anywhere or not, I found that Black is widely regarded as the best of the Showa series'. That's... worrisome to me, to say the least. So with that and everything I've said in mind, here is my question(s, I guess); Does that mean that all of the Showa series' are similar in structure to Black, or (Rider gods forbid) somehow worse? And if they do have a similar/worse structure, do they at least have a cast or something to support it? If yes (and 'no' to question two), I'm probably gonna be skipping out on them unless anyone happens to have an abridged arrangement like I've done here. Thank you for reading, and I'm sorry about the length. I just really want a good answer to the question before I hop into another Showa series blind, and tried to provide enough information about what I'm actually asking so as to get as good of an answer from someone in the know as possible. PS. Black isn't bad by any means, it's just wildly uninteresting if you're looking for the story. Watching it abridged as I've posted above makes for a nice series. PPS. I love how Kotaro just calls everyone associated with Gorgom "Gorgom", like it's some kind of slur for their organization aha. Makes me laugh.
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04-26-2016, 12:41 PM | #2 |
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Yeah, pretty much all of Showa is like that from what I've seen (44 episodes of the original, 6 of X, Amazon, Stronger and 31 of Skyrider). I haven't seen Black, so I can't really compare, but most of the shows don't have much that can be called a plot. They're just not that kind of show. Abridging any of them would probably not leave you with much. Less than 14, probably.
Amazon may interest you, though. It's very short, and while it does use the same monster of the week format, the main character is in fact developing throughout the entire first part of the show. The second part is more generic, but by that point the supporting cast is decent enough to help lighten the burden. If you get to like the Mole Beastman, you'll probably be alright. I'd tell you to skip episode 19 (which has literally the exact same plot as episode 15. though it does feature some great mole moments so i dunno) but otherwise I think it's a worthwhile watch. Stronger is also very good, but it takes longer to get there. Drawing up an abridged number of episodes for it would probably be feasible, but I don't remember it well enough to do so. Last edited by barnstenchfartface; 04-26-2016 at 12:46 PM.. |
04-26-2016, 01:00 PM | #3 |
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Hmmn. Well, that's really disappointing since the engaging plots are one of the strong points of the Heisei series'. But oh well, maybe I'll just check them out in small chunks or... never. Thanks a lot for the reply! Also I was already interested in Amazon because of Amazons. I'm really liking it, and I know it's not a remake but since it "borrows ideas" and whatnot I wanted to see the original.
Well, if you do take an interest in Black, as I said in the OP I can actually recommend the series abridged. I like Black's design, and I love the primary antagonist's design. Nobody gets any development, and there's no cast so... don't expect any of that. But, it's still pretty solid abridged.
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"You'll never hurt anyone. You won't bloody your hands. What a gentle way to live... without any purpose." |
04-26-2016, 05:41 PM | #4 |
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Showa Kamen Rider is very episodic by nature. Some shows, like early V3, have a lot of two-parters, but there's rarely any form of ongoing plot arc. It's usually just done-in-ones with the only real changes being when new cast members arrive or leave (usually a general or the largely throwaway Rider Girls). It's not necessarily bad if you just want a simple action story, but there aren't a ton of options if you're watching the shows for character development or ongoing storylines.
That said, if you want some shows with longer storylines: - V3's Riderman arc isn't terribly complex, but does feature some character growth and development as Joji learns the truth about Destron and slowly comes around to fight alongside Shiro. It's still fairly shallow compared to modern shows, though. - X has the blueprint arc, where he spends several episodes competing with GOD's monsters (including the infamous Starfish Hitler) to find the scattered instructions for a super weapon. - Stronger's Delza Army arc is relatively serialized and has some good character interaction moments between the various army generals. - Black RX has a few multi-episode story arcs, most notably the episodes where Kotaro goes to the Demon World and gets his Robo and Bio Rider forms. |
04-26-2016, 06:40 PM | #5 |
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I'm about 20 episodes into the original series, and almost none of them have had any sort of plot development. The first two episodes set up the series, and there's a two-episode Rider switch. Other than that, every single episode is just Shocker sending out a monster and Rider beating it. That's just the nature of the series. The thing is...this is where it came from. The shows started off like this, and with each series the plots became a bigger focus. They added more forms, they added a lot. The same thing happened with Super Sentai - it started off EXTREMELY episodic and became less so over time. People watch the Showa series FOR the episodic nature a lot of the time. Those shows are the kinds of shows that helped to define the MOTW trope, so you can't really fault them for displaying it.
I recommend checking out more Showa series, but do it for: seeing cool monster fights in each episode, cheesy special effects, and to see where the series came from.
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04-26-2016, 11:07 PM | #6 |
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Thanks a lot! I dunno if that'll be enough to hold me, but I appreciate it.
Yeah but... I mean I got enough from Black aha. I do see now with everyone's replies that that was just the nature of the series back then, and I'm not necessarily "faulting" it for it. However I mean you should understand, getting into the series because of the Heisei Era means that's what I'm looking for out of it. My first series was Gaim, and it blew me away with it's characters, plot and their development. I certainly respect where Kamen Rider came from, now having seen some. However I think it's really grown into it's own and found a unique voice. That doesn't mean I won't check out more at some point, but knowing now that none of it is going to be quite what I'm looking for out of the series, the chances are low.
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"You'll never hurt anyone. You won't bloody your hands. What a gentle way to live... without any purpose." |
04-27-2016, 12:53 AM | #7 |
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One thing I remember looking back is how instead of new forms they got a new finisher or a new method of transforming which sometimes lead to repaints of the costume.
I remember the most bonkers thing was from Skyrider/NEW KAMEN RIDER where the past riders(1 to Stronger) practically ganged up on the titular hero all under the name of training. Or was that Super-1? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Last edited by Sunred; 04-27-2016 at 12:59 AM.. |
04-27-2016, 01:00 AM | #8 |
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Quote:
Yeah but... I mean I got enough from Black aha. I do see now with everyone's replies that that was just the nature of the series back then, and I'm not necessarily "faulting" it for it. However I mean you should understand, getting into the series because of the Heisei Era means that's what I'm looking for out of it. My first series was Gaim, and it blew me away with it's characters, plot and their development. I certainly respect where Kamen Rider came from, now having seen some. However I think it's really grown into it's own and found a unique voice. That doesn't mean I won't check out more at some point, but knowing now that none of it is going to be quite what I'm looking for out of the series, the chances are low.
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Last edited by EpsilonX; 04-27-2016 at 01:02 AM.. |
04-27-2016, 01:00 AM | #9 |
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Yeah, I've heard about that. Rider 1's iconic look is actually the third version of his suit I believe.
In Black he does eventually power up his Rider Punch and Kick, but it still doesn't feel like a progression at all because nothing changes. He just uses the "new" Punch/Kick from then on which doesn't have a different name or anything, so you just end up forgetting that the moves were ever any weaker to begin with.
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"You'll never hurt anyone. You won't bloody your hands. What a gentle way to live... without any purpose." |
04-27-2016, 01:02 AM | #10 |
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Right, and I definitely agree with that. At the very least, the Showa series' seem like something you could throw on in the background of a Rider party (Is that even a thing? Let's make Rider parties a thing.) because of their drop in/out nature. Also any random episode may be good for introducing someone to the series.
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"You'll never hurt anyone. You won't bloody your hands. What a gentle way to live... without any purpose." |
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