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08-02-2019, 11:31 AM | #1281 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
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Sorry I had to bring up the whole "Drax's distinction of a man and a dude" thing from Infinity War.
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08-02-2019, 04:04 PM | #1282 |
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This was quite the movie if I remember at the time. Tsuruno who played Asuka/Dyna was gaining popularity thanks to a game show at the time, THEY GOT NAKANO BACK which I thought would never happen since he is part of big name boyband, etc. I loved how they re-imagined not just the 1st Heisei Ultraman trio, but also the original Ultra Brothers and Fujimiya as well. And Mirai/Mebius playing the role of Marty McFly kinda was fun to see. And the cherry on top? Nakano's boyband V6 of Tiga's opening theme Take Me Higher returning to sing a new Ultraman theme. It was the perfect fan service movie I think still to this day.
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Another question I had: If "Ultraman" is a rank/title given to Ultras who serve in the Space Garrison...what exactly is Ultraman's real name then? Does he just not have one? Or is it just "Shodai", because that's what TsuPro seems to refer to him as, on occasion. Also, I just got to the Ep. 37-38 two-parter of Return of Ultraman and JEEZUS. This show went from 0 to 100 real quick. It started out as pretty light, typical Ultraman fare but oof. Even though I knew what would happen going in, it was still pretty rough to watch. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but this two-parter alone makes Return a must-watch for my money. |
08-02-2019, 06:18 PM | #1283 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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It's been long enough since I've seen The Origin Saga that I can't really fight you on this, but I would like to give a counterpoint here. It was a pretty strange beast in terms of its plot (especially since it's clear they deliberately made it a massive stylistic departure from a normal Ultra show), but as I remember it, it was a solid series once I adjusted to it. Gai and Juggler were absolutely the highlights the entire time. I think it was set at the most interesting possible point in their relationship, and explicitly breaking them up for a huge chunk of the show was the right move in my opinion. It allowed them to be developed more as individuals, and since the story was about them starting to drift apart anyway, it was a natural fit. It was cool seeing how they each had to adjust, and their respective attitudes towards the situation.
The actual nonsense sci-fi plot, I was never totally sold on either, but I disagree that The Origin Saga dropped the ball on the Gai/Juggler drama. They don't have to literally be together for the show to be about them. The way the guest Ultramen were handled was also a pleasant surprise at the time, so I'll let my past self explain that one: Quote:
One thing I was very impressed by was how the other Ultramen didn't feel shoehorned in. Dyna comes the closest, acting as sort of the idealized hero Gai wants to be, except that he never really does any mentoring or anything. Cosmos on the other hand fits in quite naturally, being the pacifist(ish) Ultraman in a story revolving around the irony of trying to create peace by fighting. Similarly Gaia and Agul serve as a nice mirror to Gai and Juggler's relationship as it starts to fall apart.
Besides, this is Orb's origin, right? Isn't getting his butt bailed out by four different awesome Ultramen in his first big adventure the perfect explanation for how he became #RespectfulGai? Anyway, The Origin Saga is a long way from perfect, but I do feel like there's a lot to love about it. Quote:
The simplest explanation would be to assume everyone has names in their native language or whatever, but it'd be cool to know if this has ever been elaborated on officially. Although in the case of your question, I believe it's been said that all the other Ultramen are named in honor of him. I know that's hard to believe given how little respect it looks like OG Man gets, but they do care about the guy.
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08-02-2019, 06:24 PM | #1284 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
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Last edited by Sunred; 08-02-2019 at 06:30 PM.. |
08-02-2019, 09:27 PM | #1285 |
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Join Date: Jul 2019
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It's been long enough since I've seen The Origin Saga that I can't really fight you on this, but I would like to give a counterpoint here. It was a pretty strange beast in terms of its plot (especially since it's clear they deliberately made it a massive stylistic departure from a normal Ultra show), but as I remember it, it was a solid series once I adjusted to it. Gai and Juggler were absolutely the highlights the entire time. I think it was set at the most interesting possible point in their relationship, and explicitly breaking them up for a huge chunk of the show was the right move in my opinion. It allowed them to be developed more as individuals, and since the story was about them starting to drift apart anyway, it was a natural fit. It was cool seeing how they each had to adjust, and their respective attitudes towards the situation.
The actual nonsense sci-fi plot, I was never totally sold on either, but I disagree that The Origin Saga dropped the ball on the Gai/Juggler drama. They don't have to literally be together for the show to be about them. The way the guest Ultramen were handled was also a pleasant surprise at the time, so I'll let my past self explain that one: I'm sure they were only in there because Tsuburaya wanted to get more heroes in their big Amazon-original show (thus drawing in more viewers), and/or because there's some kind of quota for Dyna and Cosmos appearances they've been trying to hit ever since Saga, but their actual role in the plot felt significantly less arbitrary than I expected. Besides, this is Orb's origin, right? Isn't getting his butt bailed out by four different awesome Ultramen in his first big adventure the perfect explanation for how he became #RespectfulGai? Anyway, The Origin Saga is a long way from perfect, but I do feel like there's a lot to love about it. Although in the case of your question, I believe it's been said that all the other Ultramen are named in honor of him. I know that's hard to believe given how little respect it looks like OG Man gets, but they do care about the guy. What ends up happening at that point is that Juggler starts feeling like a guest star in a show that should've ostensibly had him as the dual protagonist. The entire A-plot is devoted to Orb and the Ultras (plus the Kanons) fighting against Dr. Psychi, and Juggler just shows up in the final battle as some extra muscle. I don't need Gai to be with Juggler 24/7, but once Juggler leaves, the story stops following his character arc. The closest we get to character work for Juggler at that point is Agul making one comment about "I used to be like you", and maybe Orb saying "Juggler always saves me." I don't know. It was disappointing, especially coming off the main Orb series where the Gai-Juggler dynamic was teased so much. As for the guest Ultras, I wasn't super against it necessarily. I can see your argument for Dyna/Cosmos, and it does make sense to play up the mentor-mentee dynamic, especially for a newly-minted Ultraman like Orb. I think I was more thrown off by Gaia/Agul, who both felt left-field with the whole "The Earth summoned me!" excuse. I get the notion of contrasting Gaia/Agul with Orb/Juggler, but at that point, it felt like an afterthought because the final battle was already in full swing. Oh and for Ultraman's name, I don't know if that explanation tracks either. Was the name "Ultraman" coined by Hayata then, and if so did Shodai just not have an actual name before? Are all "Ultramen" from the Land of Light named after this one random Space Garrison member who lowkey didn't really have any super-memorable battles? Wouldn't it make more sense for everyone to be named after Zoffy, who's supposed to be this legendary Great Ultra War hero? SO MANY QUESTIONS TSUPRO. |
08-03-2019, 02:20 PM | #1286 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
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SO MANY QUESTIONS TSUPRO.
Now, I've never seen more than that first episode of the original show, so as someone who just watched the whole thing again, I'll leave it up to you to fill in the details on how playing host to an Ultraman worked in that show, because the impression I've gotten has always been that it's slightly unclear. Also, this entire preceding section may or may not be relevant at all depending on whether you want to put stock in the franchise's beginnings as the building blocks for what came after, or ignore it as being the weird, early oddity of a show that couldn't have known how long its legacy would last. What's obvious in the now is that OG Man was the first guy to hang out on the planet and live among the species that everyone in the Land of Light has since become slightly obsessed with, so it makes sense they'd pay tribute to that. Perhaps "Ultraman" just replaced some existing title for guys in the Space Garrison who go around doing hero stuff. Perhaps it's the greatest coincidence in the history of the universe. Perhaps thinking too hard about the logic of a series about giant spacemen wrestling monsters is a good way to go insane. Who knows?
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08-03-2019, 04:23 PM | #1287 |
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Okay, let's try and work this out. First of all, in the very first episode of Ultraman, Ultraman introduces himself to Hayata simply as "an alien from the M78 Nebula", and during that entire conversation never gives a name. It's also worth noting his slow, robotic diction, which implies he doesn't normally speak Japanese, and presumably human speech in general. At the end of the episode, when asked what this mysterious red and silver giant's name was, Hayata's immediate response is that he doesn't have one, before coming up with "Ultraman" after the issue is pressed further. The part where this gets tricky is that Hayata and the freshly-named Ultraman are now one in mind and body, so there's the question of who exactly is saying what here.
Now, I've never seen more than that first episode of the original show, so as someone who just watched the whole thing again, I'll leave it up to you to fill in the details on how playing host to an Ultraman worked in that show, because the impression I've gotten has always been that it's slightly unclear. Also, this entire preceding section may or may not be relevant at all depending on whether you want to put stock in the franchise's beginnings as the building blocks for what came after, or ignore it as being the weird, early oddity of a show that couldn't have known how long its legacy would last. What's obvious in the now is that OG Man was the first guy to hang out on the planet and live among the species that everyone in the Land of Light has since become slightly obsessed with, so it makes sense they'd pay tribute to that. Perhaps "Ultraman" just replaced some existing title for guys in the Space Garrison who go around doing hero stuff. Perhaps it's the greatest coincidence in the history of the universe. Perhaps thinking too hard about the logic of a series about giant spacemen wrestling monsters is a good way to go insane. Who knows? OK, let's say we assume that the OG Ultraman's name explanation is legit and not a case of Early-Installment Weirdness. So, Hayata essentially christened this alien being as "Ultraman." And then subsequently all the Ultras who visited and defended Earth adopted the "Ultraman" title in honor of Shodai. If memory serves, Zoffy introduces himself as "Space Ranger Zoffy" in the finale, so maybe the Ultras who serve in the Space Garrison are just called "Space Rangers," or Ultra Warriors instead of Ultramen. BUT THEN WHAT ABOUT ULTRAMAN KING. Or all the times when the shows use the terms Ultra Warrior/Ultraman interchangeably? Ugh. Ok, here's my headcanon: In Nebula M78, there is the Land of Light populated by a race of beings known as Ultras. They have a peacekeeping force known as the Space Garrison, and Ultras who serve in this force are known as Ultramen/Ultrawomen. And OG Ultraman's full name is Ultraman Shodai, because that's what they call him in Return of Ultraman and that's what MAKES SENSE. OK and now you've just opened up another can of worms I was thinking about. Do ALL the Ultras in the Land of Light view Earth as this special planet? Granted, all eleven of the Legendary Ultra Brothers have defended that world and there were some noteworthy battles in Ultra history that occurred on that planet (Empera being the big one)...but besides that, is there really anything distinguishing Earth from the thousands of worlds that the Space Garrison presumably defends? OK. I'll stop now. My head hurts. Last edited by Salaryman Zero; 08-03-2019 at 04:55 PM.. |
08-03-2019, 04:55 PM | #1288 |
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I apologize in advance for another Great Wall of Text.
Return of Ultraman After the eerie sci-fi morality tales of Ultra Seven, it was good to return (hehe) to the uncomplicated basics with Ultraman Jack. Just a spaceman fighting rubber suit monsters in Tokyo again, the way God intended. First off: I think Hideki Goh might be my favorite of the human hosts/forms of the Showa series so far. I love OG Ultraman, but Shin Hayata was bar none the dullest character of the Science Patrol team, whose members I universally liked. Dan Moroboshi was largely equally dry (the rest of the Ultra Garrison didn't fare much better either), and both Ultramen always felt largely devoid of personality, despite having their names on the marquee. But Goh is great. He's got a civilian life outside his attack team duties. He shares a passion for racecars with Sakata. He's got a romantic thing with Aki, and plays big brother to Jiro. He struggles to get along with his teammates at MAT. Sometimes he makes mistakes, or he fails, but he always trains and tries harder. I actually really liked Goh in this, and I guess it also helps that Jiro Dan was an absolute HUNK (pause) in his prime. Goh isn't a cardboard cutout toku protagonist, and he feels like, y'know, an actual character here and that's great. Except for that one episode where he pimp-slaps Aki but...yeah, I got nothing. Boy the 70s were a different time. Now most of MAT are pretty standard, but I will give a S/O to three characters. The first two are the commanders (Kato is replaced by Ibuki later on). Both are my favorite commanders of the Showa series so far, and we really get a sense that underneath their stern temperaments, they really care for their men the way good officers should. The last one is Kishida, who I actually started off absolutely hating for being a by-the-book tool. But then the show fleshes him out, showing how his military family background dries his behavior, and when he starts warming up to Goh, they end up as pretty close friends. Which is just like how things sometimes work out in real life. Ok anyway, I feel like I'm gushing too much about the character work here (which really is the best of the Showa shows so far), so let me just touch on the other aspects. The action, costuming, and set design are par for the course for the era. I actually really dig Jack's suit. But I will say that most of the kaiju/seijin are kind of underwhelming, sans a couple of really iconic ones (e.g. Nackle, Black King, Bemstar, Twin Tail & Gudon...Takkong?). Also, the Ultra Bracelet is crazy OP, it's basically half the reason why Jack defeats his enemies. There's an episode where Snowgon freezes Jack and breaks his body into pieces and he literally reassembles his chopped-up body through the power of the Ultra Bracelet. Speaking of the Bracelet, I kind of wish we got more of Shodai and Seven in this, but I guess that's what the next series Ace is for. I did appreciate the short Hayata/Moroboshi cameo though. One final note: Even if you don't want to go through all 51 episodes, I will suggest two episodes that every Ultra-fan should watch. The first is the finale, which is honestly fantastic, and features Fat Zetton as well as the classic Five Ultra Oaths that we see mentioned later in Mebius. The second is actually the Ep 37-38 two-parter which is the DARKEST Showa Ultraman I've seen up till this point. It's absolutely grueling. I have a newfound respect for Nackle now. Ultraman R/B Select! The Crystal of Bonds SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN IT. If you want to, Genm. Corp gotchu fam. I loved this. I'd forgotten how heartwarming R/B (and even Geed) was, and this was a genuinely fun experience for me. You could even say it made me HAPPEEEH. This really could've been like most of the past Heisei movies, i.e. a mindless CGI-heavy fightfest advertising a new form for kids to buy. But instead, this movie chose to have story arcs and build on preexisting relationships, and they leaned on the strongest aspect of the R/B series: the actual characters themselves. I don't want to delve too much into spoiler territory, but needless to say, character work has always been the highlight of the R/B show. I loved Katsumi's arc and his relationship with Toi, which I imagine is super-relatable to anyone in their 20s. I loved Riku and Asahi connecting over their complicated parental issues. I loved Isami and Ushio being all Dad-like when they find out Asahi is popular with guys. The entire R/B cast is just so goshdarn charming and likeable, and adding Riku and the adorable Pega just made this peak kawaii (yeah I said it, whatchu gonna do about it fightme). I also loved the use of Tregear here. Granted, it was probably just a plug for Taiga's series, and his role as the Big Bad doesn't really amount to much, but I like how they establish him as this Machiavellian trickster. Kind of like Heath Ledger Joker, where he just preys on peoples' weaknesses and insecurities. The battles were also cool for the most part. I dig the Ultrawoman Grigio suit. I'm still 50/50 on the Groob "suit" though. On one hand, it's not offensively hideous like many of these combo designs have been (LOOKING AT YOU ORB TRINITY). On the other hand...it's also entirely CGI. I'm glad that TsuPro is pushing their VFX more, and maybe one day all our Ultramen will be CG but...it does look odd at points. There are some shots where the all-CG Groob looks great, and you genuinely can't tell that it's not a guy in a rubber suit. And then there's some where his weird proportions make it look like a PS1 cutscene. And boy, they're really getting their money's worth out of that Mecha Gomora suit, huh. Anyway. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Onward to Ultraman Ace and Ultraman Max! Last edited by Salaryman Zero; 08-03-2019 at 05:05 PM.. |
08-04-2019, 04:58 AM | #1289 |
Dai Shogun
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,525
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I also watched the R/B movie, I think it was okay. Tsuburaya exceeds at making crossovers fun, so I wasn’t surprised to enjoy the Minato family and Riku scenes as much as I did. Making Katsumi the focus of the story worked quite well too.
I did have some issues with this though. The movie was full of strong messages which for the most part were done beautifully, but one in particular felt disappointing to me. They had a powerful moment with Asahi declaring that her gender won’t hold her back in fighting alongside her brothers, they have an epic transformation scene for Ultrawoman Grigio - and then she's just the cliché, cutesy "I can’t fight all that well and I’m clumsy too, hihihi" token girl hero character. What an absolute letdown that was. I don’t expect her to turn into the John Rambo of Ultraman but come on, if you preach such a strong message then follow it up properly. Then... Groob. Why wasn't this one a suit? The design is great, all the Minato siblings joining together is genius, but it being all CG ruined it. Don’t get me wrong, the short chase sequence with Tregear was great, but after that the effects were just terrible. It looked awful when they had Groob interact with real life objects. While we’re at it... Tregear. I really don’t know how you can have a villain be this meaningless. He was just there, with no reason given. I read on the wiki that Tregear created the monster form of Reugosite, yet it isn’t mentioned in the movie at all? Not even as a throwaway line? The hell? This could’ve been an excellent reason for conflict between him and the R/B-crew. He feels so out of place in this movie it’s not even funny. Oh well, the movie was mostly good, it just kind of all feel apart at the end for me. Much like R/B in general honestly. Last edited by Kiwami; 08-04-2019 at 05:02 AM.. |
08-04-2019, 05:03 AM | #1290 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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I'm never going to stop laughing at the name 'Groob', by the way.
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