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01-08-2022, 08:50 PM | #231 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I actually really really liked the Takumi-feels-guilty-over-Kusaka stuff in this movie? It might not do the best job of selling the idea of Takumi being guilty over it, but... well, survivor's guilt is a thing! I 100% believe that even in the most positive ending of 555 where he's surrounded by friends, eventually a few years down the line as he just continued living life, those thoughts would enter his head. Getting away from someone like that is extremely difficult -- and that was always Kusaka's whole thing! He is a colossally, irrefutably awful person who still manages to get in your head, still manages to fill you with doubt. And I don't like the idea that this is what would immediately happen after 555 or even a year after, like a V-Cin or something; but as you said this is more than ten years later, so I'm able to buy into this a lot more! I think it's a very well rounded arc for him and that his stuff with Keisuke actually had me thinking at one point that I would absolutely love this if it was just some random 555/X crossover that happened to come out around now. Seeing Kusaka explode into dust two new times is the icing on top of that cake!
... oh, and, uh, there's a whole movie around that as well, isn't there? ... I love this movie! I think, ending fight aside and the general annoying contrived Showa Guys Being Mean plan all throughout aside; it's actually a very good movie and one that's far ahead of anything else SHT managed to churn out (unless you count the spin-offs 4 and 5 get later). I think it's just a fantastic movie tackling the idea of generational differences which expertly parallels that of the Showa/Heisei Riders with that of Fifteen and his son he can't let go of, with a solid string of great characterisation led by Takumi and Tsukasa all throughout. ... It is a shame though, yes, that it has one of if not the stupidest endings I've ever seen in a Tokusatsu movie! Every criticism you've said of it here and that has ever been said I wholeheartedly agree with. It is painful to see what is for me such a solid-at-worst, secretly-possibly-amazing movie end in a downright bad generic fight which feels like it's purely tacked on for the trailers. I love just about everything else in this movie (a characterisation of Takeshi Hongou so bad it made his actor tackle the anniversary movie in a couple years head on himself aside), but on rewatches this always threatens to bring it down.
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01-08-2022, 08:59 PM | #232 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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Quote:
... oh, and, uh, there's a whole movie around that as well, isn't there? ... I love this movie! I think, ending fight aside and the general annoying contrived Showa Guys Being Mean plan all throughout aside; it's actually a very good movie and one that's far ahead of anything else SHT managed to churn out (unless you count the spin-offs 4 and 5 get later). I think it's just a fantastic movie tackling the idea of generational differences which expertly parallels that of the Showa/Heisei Riders with that of Fifteen and his son he can't let go of, with a solid string of great characterisation led by Takumi and Tsukasa all throughout. It screwed with Hongo. He's such a different character from what I remember him as, despite me only watching a few Showa stuff. No, actually, most of the Showa Riders were out of character, just to justify the happenings of this movie. |
01-08-2022, 09:03 PM | #233 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,580
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I feel like most of the Rider and Rider interaction downtime moments of this movie I enjoyed a decent bit.
Tsukasa and Shotaro were some of my faves though in terms of who showed up. Other than that... Oh, Yonemura... |
01-08-2022, 09:04 PM | #234 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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The thing is, the Showa Riders being all salty and mean IS what breaks the entire movie that I'd have to disagree it being a very good movie.
It screwed with Hongo. He's such a different character from what I remember him as, despite me only watching a few Showa stuff. No, actually, most of the Showa Riders were out of character, just to justify the happenings of this movie.
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01-08-2022, 09:06 PM | #235 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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I'm neutral on this movie overall though Decade's brief fight with Fifteen early on was a really funny highlight because the former honestly sounded insecure over the other guy having a higher number. I had never seen any of the Showa riders before this movie, but I didn't need to for me to know there was some serious generalisation and character-assasination going on.
I liked the little 555 bits okay, though I think what would have at least been a better angle is if Takumi's survivor's guilt was for Kiba rather than Kusaka, though there's multiple reasons why that couldn't have happened. (Though even if the movie just decided to go with like archive footage for Kiba, Kusaka is definitely the one character aside from Takumi himself that everyone remembers even a decade later from that show, so I get that it would probably have been an easy decision no matter what.) Also until I took a quick glance a short moment ago, I had genuinely forgotten Wizard was in this movie. |
01-08-2022, 09:20 PM | #236 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,422
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Setting aside that this is all yet another We Secretly Fought To Trick The Villains bullshit plot, the Showa Riders almost all come off as colossal pricks in this movie. (X largely escapes the massively unsympathetic portrayal the other old guys get saddled with, but he still ends up being a violent jerk to Takumi for half the film.) The tension it seems like the movie is going for - Showa guys bravely confront their pain while Heisei guys let it consume them - instead comes off as glowering old guys threatened by modern versions of masculinity. Like, Takeshi Hongo immediately says that Kouta is too weak to be a real Rider! IMMEDIATELY! It?s how he?s introduced to a new generation of Kamen Rider fans! As a dude who is telling the star of the movie that he?s too soft!
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And, y?know, I?d like to write that type of negative interaction off as a ruse, the Showa plan to draw out Badan? but then at the very end of the movie, all of the Showa guys go No, We Actually Do Think All Of You Heisei Guys Are Weak.
Up until that, though, I am all in on this movie. I really enjoyed the way that it worked in the guest stars, especially with Tsuakasa serving as kind of the marshal of the Heisei Riders. I also like the idea that trying to get the Heisei Riders together is like herding cats while the Showa Riders are much more cohesive as a unit. Shotaro was as fun as always and made a great foil for Kaito. We also got Shun Suguta as Kamen Rider ZX for literally only the second time ever. My favorite part, though, was the Takumi/Keisuke stuff. It didn't really fit with the show version of Takumi, but I loved seeing the two characters from different eras interacting with each other in ways that weren't just fighting. Even with both being a bit off-model, I'd have loved to see more of this pairing. It also gave us the Haruto cameo, which I love because a) Haruto and 2) it does a much better job than normal of selling the idea that these are all the actual Riders, even though very few of them are ever out of suit. |
01-08-2022, 09:24 PM | #237 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,417
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Seems perfectly in line with the third act of Faiz to me!
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01-08-2022, 09:28 PM | #238 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,422
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Quote:
I actually really really liked the Takumi-feels-guilty-over-Kusaka stuff in this movie? It might not do the best job of selling the idea of Takumi being guilty over it, but... well, survivor's guilt is a thing! I 100% believe that even in the most positive ending of 555 where he's surrounded by friends, eventually a few years down the line as he just continued living life, those thoughts would enter his head. Getting away from someone like that is extremely difficult -- and that was always Kusaka's whole thing! He is a colossally, irrefutably awful person who still manages to get in your head, still manages to fill you with doubt. And I don't like the idea that this is what would immediately happen after 555 or even a year after, like a V-Cin or something; but as you said this is more than ten years later, so I'm able to buy into this a lot more! I think it's a very well rounded arc for him and that his stuff with Keisuke actually had me thinking at one point that I would absolutely love this if it was just some random 555/X crossover that happened to come out around now. Seeing Kusaka explode into dust two new times is the icing on top of that cake!
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01-08-2022, 09:29 PM | #239 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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My biggest issue is that they keep repeating thst Showa and Heisei can't mixed when like that ignores the last 5 years worth of crossovers where that same thing decrying happens. And even after this movie ignores and have Showa and Heisei work together. The worst part is that most of these were made by Shirakura and Yonemura.
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01-08-2022, 09:34 PM | #240 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,088
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I feel like, even compared to the Rider vs. Sentai movies, this film definitely got hit with the "we need to pair up two significant groups with strong and passionate fanbases that we'll rile up in the most controversial and contrived manner possible for ticket sales" gimmick.
I always did find it kind of amusing that Gaim focused so much on the Riders as "Armored Rider" concept and in this movie suddenly they have to deal with Kamen Riders and the "Heisei Rider" and "Showa Rider" divide. Also, Faiz was my first Rider, he's my favorite Rider...but did they really need to retcon how Kusaka died? |
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