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07-12-2018, 04:25 PM | #391 |
Omnipresent Historian
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In the now.
Posts: 707
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Quote:
You're exactly right. If a woman is the main Rider, I don't expect the toyline to suffer at all. If anything, marketing to girls in addition to boys will probably increase sales.
BUT, and again this is if the main rider is a girl, I do suspect that the toy line will be more anchored around this "Zi-Q" character, even if the show focuses squarely on a female Zi-O as the main protagonist. Because, while I do think that Toei likes to experiment with content, I also think that Bandai is extremely conservative and married to their formulas. Obviously, this is all speculation, and I'm still very skeptical (though increasingly hopeful) that we'll get a girl in the lead role. But if we do, it probably wouldn't negatively impact toy sales too much. So I don't see why this will limit sales in any fashion whatsoever. Same amount of figures of both as normal. Same amount of Roleplay gear. If it's cool, it's cool. Sales numbers will be the same to higher. Doubt it'd have any negative effects whatsoever, and instead will likely cause a sales spike. So I doubt bandai will limit it at all or act conservative. BoJ isn't as limited as BoA on views. If this were BoA then I might agree and worry. But even they used to cater to wider and this limited view is more of a recent thing. Having the male background character overshadow a female lead rider in her own show on the toys is also instant bad press. So that'd be a really dumb thing to do. Last edited by Librarian; 07-12-2018 at 04:29 PM.. |
07-12-2018, 04:59 PM | #392 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
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The toys are nearly all sold armored except for the collector market. The device looks to be the same with the addons/gimmick piece dictating additional functions.
So I don't see why this will limit sales in any fashion whatsoever. Same amount of figures of both as normal. Same amount of Roleplay gear. If it's cool, it's cool. Sales numbers will be the same to higher. Doubt it'd have any negative effects whatsoever, and instead will likely cause a sales spike. So I doubt bandai will limit it at all or act conservative. BoJ isn't as limited as BoA on views. If this were BoA then I might agree and worry. But even they used to cater to wider and this limited view is more of a recent thing. Having the male background character overshadow a female lead rider in her own show on the toys is also instant bad press. So that'd be a really dumb thing to do. But I do think we have decades of evidence to show that BoJ is pretty married to a specific business model for their heavily gendered toylines like Rider, Sentai, and PreCure. So when it comes to the action figures, even if a girl Zi-O gets the exact same number of toys and variants as usual (which I do agree will be the case), I think her figures will look very genderless and I think there will be a disproportionate marketing focus on this male, secondary Rider character compared to previous secondary riders. I also suspect there will be more figures and variants of him than than there usually are for supplemental heroes. I'm pretty sure we're seeing this already. How often does a Rider show's initial marketing so prominently show a secondary Rider in its first volley of promos? It's very, very rare. You could point to Cross-Z, but IIRC, that early image of him in the toy catalog was one of those prototype drawings, and he wasn't part of the main photo-spread like Zi-Q is in these leaks. If fact, his prominence in these early leaks, more than anything else (even the weird-ass chest armor), is what's giving me the most hope that Zi-O will be a woman. TL;DR, I think we're in almost total agreement that a lady Rider won't negatively effect sales at all. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 07-12-2018 at 05:02 PM.. |
07-12-2018, 06:12 PM | #393 |
Monster Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Canadia
Posts: 516
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Saying that Toku isn't a main priority for Bandai is kinda BS. Kamen Rider and Sentai are usually always on the top of toy sale charts, so they still make tons of money after all these years. And if it wasn't a priority, then why would we still be getting new seasons every year? Why would Bandai experiment with Sentai after it started to do less well and not just cancel it?
Just because the shows are cheap to produce doesn't mean they aren't a priority. |
07-12-2018, 06:58 PM | #394 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,098
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Quote:
Saying that Toku isn't a main priority for Bandai is kinda BS. Kamen Rider and Sentai are usually always on the top of toy sale charts, so they still make tons of money after all these years. And if it wasn't a priority, then why would we still be getting new seasons every year? Why would Bandai experiment with Sentai after it started to do less well and not just cancel it?
Just because the shows are cheap to produce doesn't mean they aren't a priority. I mean. that last comment is actually wrong - Sentai has dipped a bit lately, and the experimentation is likely an attempt to save it...but 'dipped' =/= failing (besides, I seem to recall that Nininger and Zyuohger caused the dip, and Kyuranger rose uut of it again anyway). Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are routinely at the top of BoJ's sales records - and every Driver since at least Drive has won a Toy of the Year award in Japan. There's no way Bandai Japan 'don't care' about Toku. |
07-12-2018, 07:23 PM | #395 |
天心の英雄たち
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 939
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funny that people think it's "long overdue", as if there were no Sailor Moon, Cutie Honey, Hello Kitty, or a ton of other shows and toys aimed just for girls. Heck Akibarangers was a mostly Female cast. Every Sentai show I've seen has had Female Heros.
Girls are not some long suffering completely ignored demographic. Kamen Rider has historically been aimed at boys as a target market. Just like GI Joe or He-Man or Transformers or whatever else was aimed at a boy market. And that's ok, there's nothing wrong with that. Not everything needs to be feminized 'just because.' I don't understand this victim attitude I see lately that says everything needs to cater to Women. But whatever, if the new Rider is a Woman so be it. But I think judging by the long history of Male Riders and the fact that young boys generally do not want to play with girl toys, it would be an interesting move from a business standpoint. But who knows; not like I've never been wrong before. I do find the attitude that this is something that needs to happen to be perplexing though. Like some great injustice has happened because Kamen Riders have almost always been Male. Last edited by KaijuUltraFan; 07-12-2018 at 07:26 PM.. |
07-12-2018, 07:55 PM | #396 |
New Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
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Quote:
funny that people think it's "long overdue", as if there were no Sailor Moon, Cutie Honey, Hello Kitty, or a ton of other shows and toys aimed just for girls. Heck Akibarangers was a mostly Female cast. Every Sentai show I've seen has had Female Heros.
Girls are not some long suffering completely ignored demographic. Kamen Rider has historically been aimed at boys as a target market. Just like GI Joe or He-Man or Transformers or whatever else was aimed at a boy market. And that's ok, there's nothing wrong with that. Not everything needs to be feminized 'just because.' I don't understand this victim attitude I see lately that says everything needs to cater to Women. You clearly have a problem with women, and every post you make here just proves it more. I hope ZI-O is female. It would be something new and refreshing after decades of male main riders. Its not about "feminizing" rider or whatever you think it is. Its about doing something new and different. Plus you know what? Yes, we ARE long overdue for a female main rider. I should clarify though that in the more than likely chance that ZI-O does have a male lead, I wont be upset in anway. Would I like to see a female lead? You betcha. But Ill still watch and likely love the series regardless. Last edited by Aigon; 07-12-2018 at 11:34 PM.. |
07-12-2018, 08:45 PM | #397 |
King of the Rolex
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Digital World
Posts: 452
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Hey does anyone know if Zi-O is supposed to appear in Build's summer movie?
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07-12-2018, 08:50 PM | #398 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,524
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Yeah, exactly.
I mean. that last comment is actually wrong - Sentai has dipped a bit lately, and the experimentation is likely an attempt to save it...but 'dipped' =/= failing (besides, I seem to recall that Nininger and Zyuohger caused the dip, and Kyuranger rose uut of it again anyway). Quote:
As a point of reference, here are the annual domestic sales starting with Go-Busters. The additional info are from the respective show's Japanese wikipedia page that has citations to sales and interviews, etc.
Go-Busters: 9.6 billion yen. Despite Go-Buster Ace and the buster machines getting awards and stuff, PLEX's Sojiro Tanaka has gone on to record to say that they regret not coming up with a solid alternative to collectables for the show, which Gokaiger had, and that is why they decided to sell zyudenchis for Kyoryuger the following year. Kyoryuger: 14.4 billion yen. It exceeded BOTH GOKAIGER AND GO-BUSTERS. Roleplay toy sales in terms of units were three times higher than the previous year, four times higher in terms of sales amount. 200K units of Kyoryujin were sold by summer 2013. Kyoryujin was the highest-selling sentai robot in a decade. ToQger: 11.3 billion yen. Ninninger: 7.8 billion yen. Zyuohger: 8.8 billion yen. Kyuranger: 9.1 billion yen. After the second major drought that was Ninninger, Super Sentai has been on a gradual rise as of Zyuohger. They hope to reach 10.5 billion yen for Lupinranger VS Patranger it seems. While we are at it, here are the Top 10 Bandai domestic toy sales for 2017. 1. Gundam. 26.2 billion yen. 2. Kamen Rider. 24.8 billion yen. 3. Dragon Ball. 14.2 billion yen. 4. Anpanman. 10.9 billion yen. 5. Super Sentai. 9.1 billion yen. 6. Pretty Cure. 8.1 billion yen. 7. One Piece. 4.6 billion yen. 8. Ultraman. 4.3 billion yen. 9. Pokemon. 4 billion yen. 10. Aikatsu. 2.3 billion yen. Overall sales rankings are different. 1. Dragon Ball. 97.9 billion yen. 2. Gundam. 68.3 billion yen. 3. One Piece. 29.4 billion yen. 4. Kamen Rider. 26.4 billion yen. 5. Super Sentai. 19.4 billion yen. 6. NARUTO. 11.3 billion yen. 7. Anpanman. 10.9 billion yen. 8. Pretty Cure. 8.1 billion yen. 9. Ultraman. 6 billion yen. 10. Aikatsu. 3.6 billion yen.
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07-12-2018, 10:39 PM | #399 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
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I also kind of think the whole idea of “we have to separate kids stuff across strict gender lines” is sorta psychologically harmful? I’m still getting over the psychological wounds and gender-based shame of being a boy who liked to play with Barbies and My Little Pony — because this stuff happens at such a young age, it’s extremely formative shit that, for real, has taken a toll on my self-esteem long term. Kids should be allowed to be into what they’re into and not feel shame that they’re a boy playing with girl toys or a girl playing with boy toys, and more equally gendered toy lines/kids shows would help solve that issue. Will a girl Rider happen with Zi-O? I sort of doubt it, and I won’t be mad if it doesn’t. But I think it would be cool. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 07-12-2018 at 10:42 PM.. |
07-12-2018, 11:34 PM | #400 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,472
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Kamen Rider has historically been aimed at boys as a target market. Just like GI Joe or He-Man or Transformers or whatever else was aimed at a boy market. And that's ok, there's nothing wrong with that. Not everything needs to be feminized 'just because.' I don't understand this victim attitude I see lately that says everything needs to cater to Women.
To talk about Kamen Rider being "feminized" like it's a bad thing implies that there's something wrong with femininity. I'm going to assume for purposes of this post that you didn't intend to imply that. If you don't care if the next lead Rider is female and don't think it's a big deal, that's fine. Maybe it doesn't mean much to you. However, there are people to whom it would mean a lot. Maybe be happy for them if that's what 2019 is bringing us? It's really easy for those of us who're male toku fans to be oblivious to how female roles in Rider and Sentai are... not generally terrific. They're not always bad - Build is doing a little bit better job with Misora and Sawa than, say, Wizard did with Rinko and Koyomi - but... well, let's took at one of the central tropes of Kamen Rider: character growth is tied to Rider powers. There's a long line of male Riders who either become Riders or gain upgrade forms directly linked to their character development. Kagami finds new resolve? Meet Kamen Rider Gatack. Banjou resolves to fight for other people? Time for Cross-Z Magma. It's extremely rare that this happens with female characters outside of movies, and it's nearly always undercut in some way. Marika kicked butt, but she's also dressed in pink with vague heart-shapes, and her entire arc is about her devotion to a man. Poppy at least got a Rider form, but once she got control of it, she rarely got to be effective in battle, if she even entered battle at all. Nico's Rider form was, for most of the series, a problem that others tried to save her from. The women of Kiva got to be awesome in their debut episode, and thereafter were usually ineffective fighting Fangires, even though they're both Fangire hunters. And these are the best examples I know of regarding Heisei Rider. And the fake-outs! It's like a tradition that a female regular tries to use a Driver, and then it fails because reasons. "Because reasons" is usually shorthand for "we're not allowed to have a female Rider." I've lost count of how many Heisei Rider shows have pulled this, including Kiva a couple of times. (On the same show, it's a male co-worker who can successfully use IXA.) Then there's the "transforms and is instantly defeated" trope, a la Dark Ghost P. On the Sentai side: with some exceptions, it's rare that a female Sentai character gets to be anything other than "bubbly and cheerful" or "caring big sister." They can be the smartest member of the team, but rarely or never the strongest (I haven't yet seen all the series. Maybe one will surprise me.) Of 12 Kyurangers, only two were female, and one of those was a pink robot. That's... weird. Out of all the prior Sentai series, only one had a red hero, and that only lasted for a few episodes. Not all boys are super-into "boy stuff." Not all girls are super into "girl stuff." A lot of people are into a mixture of stuff, because people's taste in entertainment isn't actually married to their gender. What's better than entertainment "for boys" and "for girls" is entertainment for people. I don't know whether Zi-Oh will be a female Rider. If that turns out to be the case, I would be shocked if the following Rider series didn't have a male lead, the same way I'll be extremely surprised if the Doctor after Jodie Whittaker isn't male again. What Kamen Rider and Super Sentai have in common is that they put out a completely new series with a new cast every year. They have room to experiment and try something different. Sometime soon, we'll get to find out whether that's what this series will do. I just hope it's not another Decade. Except for the theme song. That theme song was terrific. (Oh, hey. New scans just came out. I still have no idea of Zi-O's gender.) Last edited by Tokumonkey; 07-12-2018 at 11:36 PM.. |
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