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View Poll Results: Do you want Toku to become more mainstream? | |||
Yes, more people would be great! | 52 | 46.43% | |
No, a smaller fandom is best. | 25 | 22.32% | |
I'm fine either way. | 35 | 31.25% | |
Voters: 112. This poll is closed |
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07-02-2021, 09:50 PM | #101 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
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Quote:
Here's another thing, yes, a lot of us love to see the action and martial arts in Toku. It's amazing to see the suit actors do their thing, but the general audience likely won't care about these details. They want to see the hero beat the bad guy in any shape or form. A bigger fan of stunts and theatrics like that may be able to get catered to by these K/C-Dramas particular to action.
I hope I answered your questions. These are my experiences with such, and as such some elements may be untrue for some or largely different. Why? Because I'm an example of a person who grew up watching wuxia dramas as a kids, and I transition to tokusatsu (because of the martial arts), and K-dramas (because I grew up watching drama in my wuxia drama as a kid). That made it easy for me to be a tokusatsu, K-drama, and wuxia drama fan. Also because I'm Asian-American, that probably play a role into being able to watch any entertainment/media from East and Southeast Asia. Quote:
But the general fan who just wants to watch the superhero isn't going to watch this K/C-Drama just because this guy can also do it too. The charm of the man in the cool superhero suit is gone.
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07-03-2021, 03:52 AM | #102 |
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 462
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I admit I am possibly not too knowledgeable about wuxia or sci-fi/fantasy Korean dramas (though I have seen the first 2 Armor Heroes,Giant Saver and Dino Force Brave and would watch Vectorman too if it was subbed!) so I can neither agree nor disagree but funnily enough I'm not sure if I do actually watch tokusatsu exclusively based on the hero suits even if that may be different from the norm, Marvel and DC has typically just tended to be a ''take it or leave it'' scenario for me whereas Power Rangers of course I will keep up with and for me I do probably find the most crossover with either anime or other live-action fictional TV!
There are multiple entry points for tokusatsu and things you could find similar with other TV genres you like and I suppose for me I think I just have an interest in TV from both different countries and all time! |
07-04-2021, 11:08 PM | #103 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,518
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Anything to free me of my boredom!
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07-13-2021, 11:54 PM | #104 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Having watched 2 or 3 different wuxia C-dramas for the last few days on Netflix. And paying attention on how people on Netflix can stumble upon them and also help give these obscure show a mainstream push from people that don't normally don't watch them. Now I know how tokusatsu can get a push in mainstream awareness in the US, they need to be put on mainstream streaming platform like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video rather then Shout Factory TV and other lesser well-known and ad-supported streaming site. Given Netflix and Prime Video have 100+ million subscribers, that can really help tokusatsu a lot if they were put on there. I mean Netflix doing simulcast for K-dramas and putting obscure K-dramas, Taiwanese dramas, and wuxia dramas on their platform for US and worldwide audiences to watch is really helping those shows get more mainstream audience even if they're obscure and those demographic aren't hardcore drama fans.
I believe if Toei and Tsurbaraya put these shows on Netflix (and if Netflix goes far as to label these as "Netflix originals" like they did for Neon Genesis Evangelion and Saint Seiya 1986):
If any of these shows were to be put on Netflix (or Prime Video), I guarantee that tokusatsu would get a lot more fans then ever. That's why K-dramas, C-dramas (including wuxia), and other non-English foreign language TV dramas/series are getting more mainstream demographic in the US then what tokusatsu are getting despite getting some shows from Japan. I also got chance to look at Reddit, and I found some disturbing trends: r/toku (7.8 thousands members) r/KDRAMA (240 thousand active members. Yep, you read it right, 240,000+ active people) r/CDRAMA (13.9 thousand active members, and that does include wuxia dramas watcher) The toku subsection of Reddit is much lower then the K-drama and C-drama subreddit section. This is very disturbing because this show the effect of K-dramas mainstream popularity in the US thanks to mainstream platform like Netflix, and other factors like K-pop act (ie: BTS, Blackpink, etc....). Although C-drama reddit is 14,000+ active members, I suspect this number to be much higher because now we have more C-dramas on mainstream streaming sites, and I expect more C-dramas being picked up more and more. Here's what I find disturbing, the fact that anime fans can branch out to K-dramas, but toku fandom has never branch out to K-dramas nor wuxia C-dramas, and K-dramas and wuxia C-dramas fans didn't branch out to toku fandom also left me scratching my head and as I said, I find that disturbing and that does bother me. Last edited by mdo7; 07-13-2021 at 11:57 PM.. Reason: revising number |
07-14-2021, 07:01 AM | #105 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,717
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What exactly makes you think that k-drama and wuxia fans don't branch out to toku? And why should it bother you if they don't?
What makes you think anime fans branch out to k-dramas? I'm very sure some don't. And to those that do, why should it bother you? I suppose what I'm trying to say is, why should we be so worked up about what people do for their choice of entertainment? It's not our duty to shove the 'gospel of toku' or whatever into people's throats. It's entertainment, let people enjoy what they enjoy (unless it's, y'know, harmful to their mental health).
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07-14-2021, 11:15 AM | #106 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Yes, I credit wuxia for helping me become a toku fan. As I said, tokusatsu and wuxia shared similarities with each other. There should been a big major crossover/branching out of toku fans becoming wuxia fan, and I could say the same for wuxia fans should've branch out to tokusatsu too. So it's easy for a toku fan to become a wuxia fan (and for wuxia fan to become a toku fan) because of the similarities between tokusatsu and wuxia. As I stated, K-dramas have already dipped into sci-fi/fantasy genre to the point where they start to resemble tokusatsu like the 2 K-drama on Netflix I mention on my previous posts. Also, it doesn't help that many K-drama fans have already started to branch out to C-dramas (and that include wuxia/martial art genre), and if you think I'm making this up, then go read these Reddit thread: Evidence#1: C-drama Reddit thread-Its a little annoying when kdrama fans ask for kdramas in cdrama land Evidence #2: C-drama Reddit thread-For those that are cdrama fans after being kdrama fans, why do you like cdrama? So yes, there has been a lot of K-drama fans branching out to C-dramas. But I don't see any toku fans branching out/crossing over to K-drama and C-dramas when wuxia C-dramas and K-dramas start to look similar to tokusatsu and I don't see C-drama/K-drama fans branching out to tokusatsu if that K-drama/c-drama fans are watching Wuxia drama, and non-romance sci-fi/fantasy K-dramas. So yes, it does matter to me that there is not a crossover/branching out between toku fans and K-drama/wuxia C-drama fandom when you see a K-drama fan branching out to wuxia drama. It's no wonder why toku fandom aren't "active" like their K-drama and C-drama counterpart despite K-drama and C-drama are diving into territory that makes them resemble to tokusatsu, and also the fact that wuxia resemble tokusatsu in several aspect Quote:
What makes you think anime fans branch out to k-dramas? I'm very sure some don't. And to those that do, why should it bother you?
Because if you're an anime fan, you would've known about the live-action adaptation of anime/manga that South Korea and Taiwan have done. Don't tell me you've never watched the Boys over flowers Korean drama? Did you know City Hunter was adapted into a Korean TV drama? You never watched any of those, did you? Don't tell me you didn't know in early 2000's that Taiwan had several well-known TV drama adaptation of anime/manga like It started with a Kiss (a Taiwanese adaptation of Itazura Na Kiss): Devil Beside you (a Taiwanese adaptation of the manga, Akuma de Sōrō/The Devil does exist): Mars (the Taiwanese drama adaptation of the manga of the same name): Meteor Garden (the Taiwanese adaptation and yep this would later become the basis for the Korean drama adaptation I mention above, and the 2018 Mainland Chinese remake on Netflix. They're all live-action version of Boys Over Flowers): Even way before K-pop took over the US, and streaming like Netflix would dominate the way we watch our shows. I've heard about these Taiwanese adaptation from anime/manga fans (and Asian-American community) in early 2000's. That's how I know that anime/manga fans are branching out to live-action TV dramas from Taiwan and South Korea in late 2000's and early 2010. The fact that Crunchyroll used to had a big K-drama catalog in 2009 also played a role for anime fans to crossover to K-drama: Crunchyroll partner with SBS to increase K-drama catalog Crunchyroll partner with MBC for K-drama catalog Crunchyroll Offers Top Korean TV Dramas from Leading North American Distributor YA Entertainment Crunchyroll Adds Korean Live-Action Boys Over Flowers So yes, there were a lot of anime fans crossing over to Korean and Taiwanese dramas because of these live-action adaptation. And let me try conclude by saying this. Quote:
I suppose what I'm trying to say is, why should we be so worked up about what people do for their choice of entertainment? It's not our duty to shove the 'gospel of toku' or whatever into people's throats. It's entertainment, let people enjoy what they enjoy (unless it's, y'know, harmful to their mental health).
Quote:
Let say there are 10,000 toku fans. Majority of these toku fans are also anime/manga fans. Let called these toku fans that are anime fans: anime/toku fans (these fans watch both toku and anime)
Now you said it yourself that anime/manga is a larger beast. How? Why is this a big deal to someone who watched both anime and tokus? OK, this is where your statement doesn't hold up. You said anime fans can crossover/branch out to K-dramas and wuxia dramas, so shouldn't that include the anime/toku fans too? So out of 10,000 toku fans and 95% of them are anime fans. And let say 1,000-3000 anime/toku fans crossover to K-dramas and wuxia C-dramas because they were exposed to K-drama (or Taiwanese drama, it depend on which show is it) adaptation of anime/manga and several wuxia C-dramas (either from their Chinese-American/speaking friends or by chance). So why did these 1,000-3000 anime/toku fans that became K-drama and wuxia C-drama fans never brought up K-drama and wuxia C-drama in their toku community fandom circle (that include Tokunation forum)? Why do I seem to be the only one toku fans that has extensive knowledge of K-dramas, and wuxia C-dramas under my tokusatsu knowledge? Also online I would see anime fans and K-drama fans reaching out recommending K-drama and anime shows for their respective fandom to crossover/branching out, I would see Reddit thread like these: Any good gateway dramas for anime fans? K-drama recommendations for anime fan? What Anime can I recommend for a K-Drama Watcher? Need some dramatic anime similar to kdrama Looking to get into kdrama from an anime background! I never seen toku fans reaching out to K-drama and C-drama fans in the same manner K-dramas and anime fans did. In other I never seen a toku fan doing these, and I can't find any reddit or any forum that do these when I googled them: Recommended Toku shows for wuxia fans Toku shows if you love the K-drama, Goblin If you love wuxia drama, then check out these toku shows from Japan!!! I'm a wuxia fan, what toku shows would appeal to me? No, I searched everywhere for any toku fans reaching out to K-drama and wuxia C-drama fans to get them into their fandom and I can never find any Reddit recommendation thread, or any article recommending toku shows to wuxia drama and K-drama fans. I can't seem to find any evidence or proof of toku fans making any attempt to reach out to K-drama, wuxia/c-drama fandom the same way anime fans reach out to K-drama fans, and K-drama and C-dramas reaching out to each other. That's why it bother me that toku fandom aren't doing the stuff that anime fans, K-dramas fandom, and wuxia/C-drama fandom are doing to get one fandom to crossover/branching out to another. |
07-14-2021, 06:29 PM | #107 |
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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This thread really is starting to sound like harrassment so I'll be very blunt and try to keep things brief: the world doesn't revolve around what you want.
You seem to base a lot of your arguments on personal anecdote (e.g. I saw/experienced this so I know this happens, etc.) which indicates this is a personal issue. Your first point is that you're a wuxia fan that branched out to toku and drama. There's nothing wrong with that. However, every human on this planet has a different journey; not everyone will branch out into toku. You cannot experience something and expect others to experience the same experience. You also said that if I'm an anime fan I would've known that South Korea and Taiwan did live-adaptations of their work. I am aware. However, what you didn't take into consideration is whether or not I actually give a jackfruit about it. Which I don't. If you really want toku to get more recognition, why don't YOU try and take the initiative and start spreading word around instead of complaining about how toku fans don't seem to spread the word (assuming that you haven't done so already). Be the change you want to see rather than wait for someone else to do it. I'm not usually this blunt and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. However, this is slowly turning toxic. I get that you want toku fans to spread the word out for toku but for goodness sake don't try and prod other people into doing that for you.
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07-14-2021, 10:15 PM | #108 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Quote:
You seem to base a lot of your arguments on personal anecdote (e.g. I saw/experienced this so I know this happens, etc.) which indicates this is a personal issue. Your first point is that you're a wuxia fan that branched out to toku and drama. There's nothing wrong with that. However, every human on this planet has a different journey; not everyone will branch out into toku. You cannot experience something and expect others to experience the same experience.
As I said, wuxia and toku shared a lot of similarities, there should've been a crossover/branching out between the 2 of them. And yet, I'm still baffled. Quote:
You also said that if I'm an anime fan I would've known that South Korea and Taiwan did live-adaptations of their work. I am aware. However, what you didn't take into consideration is whether or not I actually give a jackfruit about it. Which I don't.
So you say you're a anime fan, and you knew about these dramas, but you didn't choose to watch them. Then let me ask you these questions: If you're an anime fan, and you ended up watching tokusatsu shows, then why didn't K-drama, and C-dramas (including wuxia drama) didn't get your attention the first time? Why did you not branch out to K-drama and C-drama when a lot of anime fans (that include those that are also toku fans) did? Would you branch out to K-dramas and C-dramas if they used toku-like special effect given the number of K-drama(s) now getting into sci-fi/fantasy genre today? Would wuxia drama appeal to you in the same manner you found toku appealing? Quote:
If you really want toku to get more recognition, why don't YOU try and take the initiative and start spreading word around instead of complaining about how toku fans don't seem to spread the word (assuming that you haven't done so already). Be the change you want to see rather than wait for someone else to do it.
I don't know where else to go to, I tried everything. I'm not going to get a Reddit account just so I can asked toku fans. No matter where I asked a toku fan online regarding their stance on the popularity of K-drama, and C-drama and why it doesn't alarmed them. They can't seem to answer my question or can't find a toku fans that shared similar concern about toku fandom not being on par with K-drama and C-drama fandom. Quote:
I'm not usually this blunt and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. However, this is slowly turning toxic. I get that you want toku fans to spread the word out for toku but for goodness sake don't try and prod other people into doing that for you.
The topic of this thread is: Do you want Toku to become more mainstream? I would've expected the news of more American people that are not of Asian decent watching foreign TV dramas including K-dramas, C-dramas/wuxia dramas would've motivated toku fans beside me to get more involved in getting more people that watched these foreign dramas to watch tokusatsu shows, and trying to reach out to fans of sci-fi/fantasy K-drama, and Wuxia drama fans to branch out to toku. I started out as a wuxia watcher before I became a toku fan, K-drama fan, Taiwanese drama fans, etc.... I would've expected a lot of C-drama fans that watched wuxia to have branch out to tokusatsu shows given the similarities between toku and wuxia. That is not the case. I'm very disappointed in the toku fandom for not being pro-active in getting fans of sci-fi/fantasy K-drama, and wuxia C-dramas to branch out/crossing over to tokusatsu shows. By doing that, you can make tokusatsu put on the same rank as K-dramas, and C-dramas. As I said, many of the recent Super Sentai, Ultraman, and Kamen Rider series that came out in the last 2 years, if they were put on Netflix and heavily promoted and aimed at K-dramas and C-dramas fans on that platform. I guarantee this forum would have more then 20,000-50,000 active members then just a mere 4,000 members (off and on). |
07-14-2021, 11:42 PM | #109 |
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Location: CA
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I think toku IS getting more popular in the US. Amazon licensed KR Amazons for Prime and is selling official KR merch, Shout Factory released like 15 seasons of Super Sentai, Zero-One got a blu-ray release, Marvel has been releasing Ultraman comics, Leopardon has shown up in Spider-man comics and will likely appear in Into the Spider-Verse 2, Godzilla vs Kong had massive hype surrounding it, etc. I think my friend also said that there was some Ultraman streaming event happening?
However, most people I know that are into anime and/or k-drama seem to view toku as either cringy and weird, or nothing more than Power Rangers. The only person I know who is into Wuxia is somebody from Singapore that studied abroad at a nearby university. Anyways, the only reason I personally would want it to become more mainstream is because I'm sick of people thinking I'm weird for being into it. edit: Sorry if some of this was discussed already. This topic has far too many comments, many of which are entirely too long, for me to properly catch up.
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Last edited by EpsilonX; 07-14-2021 at 11:45 PM.. |
07-15-2021, 12:10 AM | #110 |
Tokusatsu Hero
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,221
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I do want Japanese special effects to be more acceptable by most people. Even the adult toku movies and shows like Testuo: The Iron Man and Kamen Rider Amazons are still viewed as cheap crap by most people.
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