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07-02-2023, 04:44 PM | #11 |
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I wonder if Orteca's descent to a worse piece of shit was done to a more (personally) lovable character before than a side character (I think similar stuff happened when he gleefully murders Yosuke by turning him into Gifftarian to spite Tamaki), that you'd be less wanting for Orteca redemption and more also wanting for him to get his karma like Daichi here. Well, just that I felt sometimes, that your anticipation of character's redemption arcs before is something that would lead into them merely getting a slap-in-the-wrist outcome (at least because it's what happened to Gai IMO, he ended up better than the main cast of Zero-One).
We should still consider the difference in motivation though, to determine who has more sympathetic qualities. While not inherently redeeming, this information can be used as a catalyst for redemption. Like Zea did for Gai, which gave him the opportunity to use his genius and wealth to atone for his past. Olteca seeks validation for his genius. You claim his murder of Yosuke was to spite Tamaki, but I think it's more like he did it for the attention. Due to his father's abuse and induction in to Deadmans, he only knows how to get that by making his friends hate him. He's a tsundere villain, but as his toxic behavior is never addressed, he's denied any catalyst for redemption. Daichi seeks the memories of all humanity. As his desire is too big to be granted by living honestly, he's willing to use any means necessary. The problem here is that characters have already given him a generous amount of chances to redeem himself and he keeps betraying and exploiting their trust. His plans are overly logical and thus they fail when someone inevitably makes an emotional choice. If Olteca and Daichi swapped shows, I think the outcomes would be very different. Quote:
I don't know how Keiwa can prove Kekera wrong at this point, because technically Kekera was already proven right, by how he got his final form when he threw Sara under the bus. Later events won't negate that, at least in real life audience's eyes perhaps (if there are those who don't hate Kekera, especially those being proud to claim they're like him), that the root of Keiwa getting a W here is still Sara's death which birthed him his final form, regardless of what happens next. Previously you've called Keiwa out for his wish as it'd perpetuate the DGP, but you don't seem to actually demonize him for his turn here, but acknowledges this as a change, instead of like, depicting him as a whole before in negative light by depicting this as his true colors or such...
Regarding the part about demonizing Keiwa, well, stay tuned for my thoughts on Episode 42. This is only the tip of the spear. Quote:
While he's in pitiful state (and Beroba wants to milk that), I wouldn't want for all the blames to be pinned on Daichi and Kekera only (which also can be used to exclusively bash Keiwa for targeting him). It's still his own idea of ?fighting to protect people", anything goes as long as this ends. He's a very example of those who view good in statistics, which explains why he can pull crap like Heaven and Hell, and still this one, despite having good intentions. He may be hurting now to do this, but he can only be absolved of this crime, not only exclusively on Daichi and Kekera, if he stops doing this or having this view. Keiwa guilting him came from his own words of claiming they're better off dead if they can't be turned back.
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I don't even like Beroba and I don't think my explanation is "tragic backstory". I just don't agree with the statement that she's the worst character on the show. It all started with Sueru, he is the supreme evil, more or less the impetus for all the characters in the show. And besides, he dresses in the style of the leader of the Shocker. And I didn't mean to attack anyone, it's just that you called Beroba the worst character on the show several times, which no one else did, so it's logical.
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07-03-2023, 08:04 AM | #12 |
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The problem is that Ace is 2000 years old. As clich?d as "story-based" amnesia is, it's meant to allow a character to make mistakes without looking like an idiot. Nadge's type appears in every second anime, so it would be very naive to expect him to accept defeat and not harm anyone anymore. So it was Ace who pushed the dominoes of events, deciding to leave the riders with a memory. Well, from a story point of view, this is logical, because the main character cannot remain out of work in the show's biggest conflict.
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I don't even like Beroba and I don't think my explanation is "tragic backstory". I just don't agree with the statement that she's the worst character on the show. It all started with Sueru, he is the supreme evil, more or less the impetus for all the characters in the show. And besides, he dresses in the style of the leader of the Shocker. And I didn't mean to attack anyone, it's just that you called Beroba the worst character on the show several times, which no one else did, so it's logical.
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I agree that Beroba isn't the worst, even though she's still a pretty terrible person. The future definitely has a serious cultural problem that allows these toxic behaviors to exist, as I doubt Beroba ever had anybody to teach her that making people suffer for entertainment is bad when this is exactly what the DGP did since obtaining Mitsume. Personally, I would give the acolade of worst villain to Daichi, as he's part of our contemporary moral culture and yet he still turned out like an unscrupulous traitor and serial killer.
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However, I still think the story of the sick boy itself is very clumsy, because if he could be saved with money, Ginpen could obviously get them in a much faster and safer way than by joining the DGP. After all, he conducted an interview when applying for a company, which means he should earn at least a good amount.
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For that to happen, Revice would need a lovable character. Well, I guess there's Yukimi, my attachment bias would definitely make me a lot more mad about her death than anything for Chigusa or Yosuke. Of course, I'd also be pretty mad at Michinaga if Sara had become a victim of Heaven and Hell.
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Those people seem to miss the point of Kekera by claiming they're like him. The sponsors are supposed to represent sides of the audience. Everybody's a little bit like Kekera in the sense that we need to see our characters suffer so they can grow from it. But most people aren't extreme enough that they'd orchestrate that suffering directly, or want them to suffer constantly.
I also think, some authority figures in places like school (who is considered right and know the best) are also like Kekera, they want to prolong the suffering of like, students, so that they can "grow", and deem those who break or object as mentally weak, especially done by the opinions of the outside who victim-blames, and I'm afraid that anytime, they can kickstart the idea that lets students suffer constantly so that they can further grow. Quote:
Olteca seeks validation for his genius. You claim his murder of Yosuke was to spite Tamaki, but I think it's more like he did it for the attention. Due to his father's abuse and induction in to Deadmans, he only knows how to get that by making his friends hate him. He's a tsundere villain, but as his toxic behavior is never addressed, he's denied any catalyst for redemption.
Daichi seeks the memories of all humanity. As his desire is too big to be granted by living honestly, he's willing to use any means necessary. The problem here is that characters have already given him a generous amount of chances to redeem himself and he keeps betraying and exploiting their trust. His plans are overly logical and thus they fail when someone inevitably makes an emotional choice. Quote:
Michinaga doesn't have reality warping powers like Geats IX though and even with those powers, Ace can't do it with his Kirakira alone. If the Jyamafied people can't be turned back, right now, then Michinaga has to choose in the moment between letting them rampage on the gamble that they can be saved later, or destroy them to prevent further deaths. Maybe it's the wrong choice, but to have the power to protect people and neglect to use it would feel irresponsible to him. It's a burden every Rider has to endure, the reality that fighting will cause victims in some scenarios, but it's better than not doing anything at all.
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07-03-2023, 10:27 AM | #13 |
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Well no, obviously I don't meant for them to get Daichi redeemed or such (and I'd hope he gets what's coming to him and not a slap in the wrist outcome, and I'm worried about Kousei in the next episode). Though perhaps to control his behavior for others' benefit, it can be done in pragmatic villainy way (doing good/not doing bad out of their best interests, not due to standards). Or keeping him alive in leash to examine his lab to get more knowledge regarding it. What I'm thinking was that, they perhaps should look for a way to extract Daichi's intelligence or such (... like the opposite of what's Daichi doing of gaining others' memories) and use that knowledge to try creating something to cure them, taking over Daichi's lab too for speed.
Yes, I personally think that on Tycoon and Buffa, the stock of redemption for this show is complete. There was just too little time left for it not to seem like Ace was suddenly possessed by the all-forgiving Gentaro. If Daichi and Kossei, as well as Kekeru and Beroba, wanted to be redeemed, it would have been done in the thirtieth episodes. At most, Kossey will do a good deed and ask for forgiveness from Neon before a heroic death. And others have a chance to escape into the future and return in a summer movie or crossover. Last edited by Mesnick; 07-03-2023 at 10:47 AM.. |
07-03-2023, 10:43 AM | #14 |
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You are simply looking at the situation from an idealistic point of view. Let's listen to Niram and try to think "realistically!". More precisely, materialistically. Kekera is doing evil, so Kekera needs to be stopped. Kekera's joy doesn't matter, as long as he doesn't hurt anyone. In fact, it's ideal if Tycoon and Buffa crush each other's supporters. Then Kekera and Beroba will be defeated without getting what they want. But this is unlikely to help Keiwa and Michinaga reconcile, because for this they need to admit their own wrong, and they denied the slightest possibility of it throughout the show. Geats fulfilled his dream in front of their eyes without compromise, and these two simply do not have examples of a different way. |
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